DPS chance on hit Relics are doing damage when they aren't supposed to. They are damaging the defensive system shields when fighting the Stormcaller and Firebrand in EC, making the shields drop earlier and breaking the fight. They are damaging ME when taking lava damage or damage from an exhaustion zone, etc... This needs to be addressed ASAP. Also, the damage is not scaling evenly between the Rakata level Relics and new Campaign Relics. On my vengeance spec'd Warrior.. I am getting a compounded 6% dmg increase from both my Shien (+6% to ALL damage) form and what I guess is my single saber mastery and a flat 6% bonus to the campaign relic. I don't know which is the error. But one of them obviously isn't right. ~Steve

Just a simple suggestion for a small tweak to the combat dummies... as I was upset to not see it in initial implementation. Kindly stick the target dummies at <30% hp. Most of us need more practice with our execute rotations than our standard rotations. ~Steve

I've read most of your concerns... and they are valid... but I'd like to interject something: I love it. I raid as veng with those *****-tards in Defiance. With the changes I am now regularly pulling threat due to the increase in both spike and sustained dps. This new skill with talents in deafening defense is amazing. I can drop threat like a rock AND take an additionally 15% less dmg while I do it... and be healed by 3% per hit per second on me. I found using this during the aoe phase withe T&Z was effective. It was very rough for healers and ensured I didn't pull threat later. I will admit that I haven't yet had a chance to test it out in pvp... but I can tell you right now that I'll love it. Keep in mind that my favorite PvP role is huttball runner. And for that.. this will be amazing. 15% less dmg, healed for 3% per hit... Yes, it costs rage, but what do I care when I'm just trying to cross the field and score? I do have one question, as I didn't even look and can't with servers down: Are there any talents that affect Enraged Defense besides the Deafening Defense upper tier talent in Veng? ~Steve edit

I ran 2/32/7 Last night when we ran hard EC. Of course we only cleared T&Z. I rather enjoy it. Ravage has become a major part of my rotation with 2kdps and 1700 on bosses. Only problem with my current build is the loose point.. so I tossed it to buff my deafening defense. ~Steve edit: damn typos

Just one simple question: Was the lead pvp designer that was yanked from that epic of a game Warhammer ever fired... or is he still the one ruining things over there in Austin? ~Steve

...or 30% more Armor Penn.

No... I didn't miss his point. I chose to ignore it because it irked me that he picked apart my earlier post. But I should own up to it being a bad example of our dmg, which I did already admit was about 10-15% below peak. Let me stop defending Jugg DPS for a moment and toss out a consensus: We do indeed do less dmg than we should. Even with all of our utility and survivability. That being said... we are currently still viable and a valuable member of any group / raid. Although it does require a higher level of player skill and gear to be worthy of your slot. We certainly have a harder time doing our dmg compared to say a Mercenary, Sorcerer or Sniper. We definitely should get another look and an uptweak. It just irks me to see all of the negativity that everyone is throwing around the Jugg forum with regards to dps.

2 Things... 1, if one of those Mouse Drones were for me.. and I didn't move... it would explode for 3-5k AOE dmg. The tank and other melee DPS might object. 2, Why would I spam Sweeping Slash and waste my rage when these add spawns perfectly align with the Mercs 1min CD on DFA? We were close on the enrage timer in our test run on Karagga so it would be better to keep my deeps on him. Could I dump my rage and kill them all from Melee range and possibly have one explode in my face? Sure. Would it be smart? Hell no.

You really haven't given us enough information. Is this for a PvE build? A PvP build? Is he trying to tank in PvP without a healer duo? Because, I'm sorry, but if you're trying to tank in Warzones without a healer... it's pretty much fail. Sure, you can do some things... but you won't be very effective overall.

I really should have recorded my raid's Nightmare Kill of Karagga... to show all of you haters how great jugg DPS really is. Let's see... Intercept and Sunder.. yes. But we also have tons of other abilities. You know all of those keys that people complain of us having? Those are all different abilities. I mention Karagga because this is one such instance. You see, during this fight he has a phase where he'll rapidly spawn mouse droids... with explosives in them. He drops them out from under him and they zoom away to go blow up your raid. He does this about 5 times during the entire 6 minute encounter. 6 minutes? I think that was his enrage timer. One of my jobs on this boss was to call out DROIDS and then to use 3 moves: (which I naturally decided on my own to use) Chilling Scream, Smash, and another chilling scream. While I'm doing this our Merc is using DFA (death from above) and all those droids go boom without ever hitting anyone. Basically stopping up to a max of around 8x4k or 32k raid dmg for healers do deal with in an already healing intensive fight. You all need to stop insulting Jugg dps. Especially my love of the Vengeance tree. I will grant you that we are about 10% under DPS from other top DPS classes. Pure numbers folks. This is inarguable. Hopefully this will be balanced out a bit, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't. We have incredible survive-ability and utility. -20% armor on a Raid boss is a rather nice ability. And I'll gladly give up 10% of my max dmg to give the rest of the raid +20%. And for those that ask, I'm playing around with a mutant spec right now for PvP and Raiding... since we don't have dual spec and I hate respeccing... currently using 6/35/0. Not completely happy with it... as I keep moving a point now and then. But I'll find some happy middile ground until I can have a spec for each PvP and PvE. EDIT: Here's a Codex entry of our server first Nightmare Karagga kill... for anyone that feels like hating. 2345 1/19/12 https://picasaweb.google.com/112837190687167853337/SWTOR#5699774524207040210

It IS, unquestionably, harder to score against a good team. This is why it's absolutely imperative to be using Unstoppable and Huddle to reduce the dmg you take... immunity to CC just makes it comical when they space themselves out enough.

To be perfectly fair, I've never tired a pure Rage build (31 pt). I've always done Immortal during the year long beta and now I'm a pure Vengeance player. But I can't say enough good things about Unstoppable. Especially now that force push resets our Charge. A full 8 seconds up front of being CC immune and taking 20% less dmg? There's a lot you can do in that amount of time. Huttball or not... I do my best to make use of this. Also Huddle.... MMmmm.. Huddle. Pooled Hatred is building on me (because of all of the AoE slows going on), but I'm still not 100% sold on it yet.

To his comment about being the best huttball carrier... yes. If you want to be the best huttball carrier you NEED unstoppable. It's that good. You can clear those 90m all while CC immune. Leap to hostile, force push him, intercede to friendly, leap to hostile near a goal line and walk it in for 4 sec.... all while CC immune and taking 20% less dmg. Add in your other defensive CDs as needed.

Don't forget the 12 points into Vengeance for Unstoppable. 4 sec CC immunity and 20% less dmg taken after each Force Charge.

Glad to see I'm not the only one that enjoys playing jugg dps... I was starting to think I was going crazy.