Valenthor
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Posts posted by Valenthor
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Well obviously I meant innovation that leads to better gameplay (e.g. Assassin's Creed's free-run).
You missed my point. There is not going to be any significant innovation in the current, popular MMO gameplay model because it works. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel.
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Well to a certain extent, I judge all games by all games. Obviously they can't all compete with each other in all (or even a lot) of categories, but, at least where they focus their attention, they should be able to excel. No, I was NEVER expecting this game to play like Assassin's Creed or Rainbow Six, but that wasn't really my point. My point was, in terms of combat gameplay, it doesn't really do anything in a unique or interesting way. It's simply copying a formula that was stale in the late 90's, much less the 2010's.
I will admit that innovation is probably the main thing that gets me excited, as a gamer. And in that regard, I'm probably in the minority. As evidenced by how popular Call of Duty and Star Craft is, most gamers prefer the familiar. To that end, TOR is VERY familiar, thus, I can see why most enjoy it. Truth be told, I enjoy playing TOR with my girlfriend since there are so few co-op games to choose from.
Not all innovation is positive. There are many MMOs out there with different types of gameplay, but are far less popular. No, you cannot just dismiss it as people wanting the familiar. Maybe the reason why people like it, is wait for it,...it is a better style that works/is popular and only needs small tweaks and improvements. People clamoring for innovation for the sake of innovation really have no idea what they are getting themselves into.
If you don't understand my point, I will refer you to Hellgate: London as an example. I would regard it as a fairly innovative MMO (think FPSer style with Diablo elements) that became a pile of poop. A lot of things sound good on paper...
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It sadly is the norm, doesn't make it right but thats how the business works. Every major MMO has gone through this cycle. It is almost expected now.
Aim your criticism at the whole industry, not just this game, they ALL do it. Find me an MMO that has been released in the last 5 or so years that has NOT done this.
This game was perfectly fine to be released when it did. It doesn't make financial sense to just keep the game in house, for god knows how long, to get it "perfect". Releasing for the holidays got them 2 million box sales and 1.7 million subscribers so far. An MMO is NEVER done, keep repeating that to yourself until it sinks in. There are no game breaking bugs in this game, it is perfectly playable. So lets stop the hyperbole, these forums have enough as it is.
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Because making the same mistakes as every MMO before is always better than learning from them and not making them yourself right?
They have. You are just not noticing it for some reason. This release was extremely smooth and the bugs are really not game breaking. In past MMOs I have played, there was terrible lag, constant server shutdowns, and literally game breaking bugs. But of course, nobody talks about the positive. Lets all focus on the negative that not ALL noticed bugs were fixed in beta. There will never be a bug free MMO on release day, I am sorry to destroy your dream.
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One other thing... I love forum goons who believe everything they hear PR people say. It's their job to factually misrepresent numbers. They won't lie, but like what this topic is about... they'll use December Q4 totals to say they have 1.7 million subs currently all the way up until Q1 2012 where they're forced to eat crow and say they had a decline in retention rates.
That's how business works in the real world.
These are not PR people. This is a quarterly earnings report to STOCKHOLDERS. Fabricating these numbers is a FEDERAL OFFENSE. We have used these very same numbers for every single MMO to date, you can't suddenly deny this and say now they are totally fabricated when before they were not. They are the only reliable numbers we have on subscriptions, everything else is bull dung.
"Bioware making up numbers and breaking the law to prove the forum hating trolls wrong". I think I have heard it all.
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Unfortunately the few that are left are right here, screaming to the top of their lungs.
Yes, I added a post script for those brave few keeping up the fight.
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Where are you now, doomsayers? This is why you never listen to doom saying ranters, they never show up when they are wrong.
P.S. Oh I do see some of you doomsayers here, hello! Still clinging on to your dead wrong opinions? I am sorry to hear that the facts got in your way, but keep up the good fight. Still got numbers to twist and conspiracy theories to make!
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I don't think it is a "failure in game design". It was an intentional design decision to make the game very focused on creating multiple characters (class story, legacy system). However, no that doesn't excuse other problems the game may have but you have to realize it is quite clearly made to be a key feature of the game.
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Yes well... lets not bring real politics into this issue or you'll have to study world war 2 and the nazi regime to see if it was "short on intellect"...
I've never seen a democracy actually achieving anything besides those way too long "bickering at each other" on parliaments and congresses instead of doing something about it... a democracy just sits and talks, a dictatorship gets things done when its needed... you see, even Rome used to "hold democracy" in times of need.
Have no idea where did you hear that quote... some leftist "legalize" and "free for all" pseudo-intellectual genius using "freedom" and "rights" as a punchline?
I find it ironic that a person that, so out-rightly, opposes the exact system that allows him to have that opinion and voice it. I ask you, how well have dictatorships fared in human history? They have almost all been terrible failures, especially for the people. It scares me that one man/woman can actually think, that they themselves, are the only person that knows what it takes to lead a nation. The ego of man is utterly disgusting at times.
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The sith (as a species) are a vicious, warrior culture that promotes survival of the fittest and only respects power. They also have a natural affinity for the dark side of the force, which heightens these tendencies. If you want to make a comparison to star trek, they're kind of like what you would get if you combined klingon culture with romulan culture and removed honor from the equation.
There certainly are exceptions and subtleties involved, but yeah, by and large that's the Sith.
This as well. While not everyone in the Sith empire is from the sith race, they really set the standard for what the Sith empire is.
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The Sith have always been portrayed as the embodiment of evil. While not everyone in the Sith Empire is wholly evil, the people running the show (the force sensitive sith lords) are pretty much the definition of evil. I don't see how they could portray selfish, power-hungry, murderers as good guys. I mean the motto "only the strong survive", isn't exactly a great basis for a good, nice, and happy society. The star wars universe, especially with force users, is fairly black and white with a few exceptions (i.e. grey jedi).
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Analogies are the argument tool of the ignorant and uncreative.
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Because if we waited for a bug-free MMO the game would never come out and it is not financially possible to let the game develop over long periods of time. It is really that simple. It is not a excuse, it is simple reality. I think it is getting better though, but don't expect many on the forums to recognize that.
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EQ is a UO clone in 3D.
WoW is a easy mode EQ clone.
TOR is a WoW clone with story.
Nope. They all sound equally stupid. Do something innovative, also known as risky, people yell at you for not copying what has been already successful. Copy something that has been proven to be successful, people yell at you for not being innovative enough. Make a MMO that actually adds meaningful leveling story, individual class story, developed companions, and fully voiced dialogue and all everyone focuses on what they copied from previous MMOs that have proven to be successful (hint: not just WoW). Dear "WoW clone" posters, please stop. You are not saying anything profound or important.
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This game shows areas in which developer's cut corners to put out a product. Anyone else notice this with the bugs, UI glitches, engine problems, and overall state of the game that with two sides fighting (fan boys and critics) that perhaps were just the victims of an unpolished product. Notice I did not say unfinished. Some critic or fanboy will say an MMO is never finished. The game is unpolished by 6 months or so.
-Labeling and stereotyping other players.
-Massive hyperbole regarding bugs and "victims".
-Mentions counter-point to dismiss it, but offers no argument against it.
-States opinion as if it is a fact.
-Apparently has inside information on how the game was designed to "cut corners".
Your argument is unpolished. Maybe the developers could better identify and fix the problems if we had less threads like this, clogging the forums. Learn how to provide constructive feedback or don't criticize at all. Angry rants are completely useless, nobody cares. If you don't care about making the game better then leave, like any normal person who is unhappy with a product/service. Also, welcome to release MMOs.
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They said the same thing about WAR.
They said the same thing about every game in existence. It is very easy to throw out doom days rants when no one holds you accountable when you are wrong. Doesn't make you any better than the crazy hobos with the cardboard signs. It is laughable that people think their tiny little opinions are any indicator of a game's success. You are one person and no amount of confirmation bias and/or ego will make your opinion a fact or accurate prediction.
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There's no doubt that was their intention. However, I think they could have handled it better. Perhaps by offering ALL companion customizations for FREE this way, and then having them at regular companion vendors for the usual 12500c.
That is a very low incentive. Exclusive content works much better, as you can see with the amount of angry ranting contained in this thread. Everyone needs to use it because people are a lot less smart about security than they think they are (it will never happen to me!). This thread confirms that Bioware reached the right level to get people to use the security key app/fob.
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I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I just felt like bringing it up again now that I've actually had the chance to see it.
That's in regards to the PVP armor. It's one thing to see it on screenshots, but then when you actually see it in person it made me want to puke (even more).
As more and more 50s are getting their high end pvp armor, and seeing the whole set in action, I really don't feel like I'm fighting Star Wars characters in warzones. Traditionally common Sith still have robes, and in some cases armor... but not to such an odd extent. Darth Krayt was an exception, but you don't see the majority of Sith in that kind of armor.
Whenever I see an Inquistor I see feathers on their heads and I feel like I'm fighting someone in a bird costume, shooting lightning. Peacock fetish? Not really taking it seriously.
Sith Warriors look more like cyborgs and Bounty Hunters than lightsaber wielding force users. The giant spikes on their shoulders make me think they're trying too hard to get noticed in 1970s punk fashion.
I'm Republic most of the time, but I do have Sith characters that I'm not in a hurry to level up if that's what I have to look forward to. I'm so much more impressed by level 20s Robes that actually make me feel like I'm part of the SW universe. I'm also sure some of the Consular 50 sets aren't exactly eye candy either.
In conclusion, I don't feel like I'm fighting Star Wars characters, but rather a display of someone's failed experiment on "Project Runway". Tim Gunn would be sad.
Carry on...
Your right. All the jedi should wear nothing but brown robes and the sith should only wear black robes. Every single piece of gear. And to change it up a little, you can throw in a white line or something on the robe. I am sure the players won't find that boring at all, but at least we can keep your own personal view of star wars intact.
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So..because the engine is new..and they have been in development for years and the game was in beta for over a year..it's ok to have a release this terrible?
Yea, wow had issues at release too, but guess what..That was also 7 YEARS AGO.
MMO's like Rift, Guild Wars and AION have been released since then and they weren't even in beta as long as SWTOR yet they feel finished.
Comparing an MMO's release today to WoW's release 7years ago is stupid...
SWTOR is brand new and had a HUGE advantage by taking the good from MMO's like WOW and knowing what players want. Not to mention again..the game was in beta for over a year..
When WoW was released how come that didn't learn from EQ? Afterall, EQ came out 5 YEARS BEFORE them they should of just magically known to fix all issues and include all features people wanted. It's a valid point because every MMO is DIFFERENT, not all features YOU WANT are going to be included. That doesn't make the game terrible and the developers clueless. MMOs take time to develop AFTER they are released, betas only go so far. A lot of this has to do with the fact that companies have to see if they can even make money off the game before they can really commit resources to it. This is true of every single MMO to date. Welcome to MMOs, you must of joined WoW at wrath.
The "review" lost a lot of creditability when it said 4.3 is the best patch to date. I am sorry, but reused environments/models and a system that promotes face-rolling through loot pinatas, with people you don't know and will never see again, doesn't exactly strike me as innovative or interesting at all. More like a desperate attempt to bandaid the bleeding subs, with purples, because of how poorly this expansion has gone.
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And you are still on the forums .....and not playing the game you so vigilantly defend....
Which makes more sense to you? Reading/posting on a forum of a game you play or posting on a forum of a game you hate and don't want to play anymore? I think you know the answer.
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This is the second thread where I've seen you like Vanilla WoW content and SWToR.
Did you even play Vanilla WoW?
What 5 man end-game content was there?
What PvP options were there?
What else was there to do at end game?
Don't tell me to google it, cause I know the answers. I want you to type it out so you realize how dumb a statement it is to make.
I honestly believe half of the people who post that "they played in Vanilla WoW" actually joined in Wrath. Because there is literally no way you played during Vanilla and then talk about the massive amount of endgame content there was. Or they forgot to take off their rose-tinted glasses.
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What people fail to realize is that yes it is 2012, HOWEVER, that does not mean that making an mmorpg is any easyer then wow was to make Wow was in development for how long? Lets argue, 5 years.
Tor has ONLY HAD what, 3-5 years as well? To expect a game to have 12 years worth of features aka wow of today, when it only had 3-5 years from start to finish is an expectation.
Things take TIME to write. Not to mention that this ISNT the same engine that wow used nor is it the same coding at all. There is alot to this game and I think BW did their best with their 3-5 start to finish development time.
However, IF swtor had been in development for 12 years lets say, you beter be DAMN SURE that I would EXPECT this game to have almost every feature wow of today has.
I agree with this excellent point. People are also ignoring the positive things of this release that are quite clearly a step forward for MMOs.
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I really don't understand why people keep harping on the "give it time", and compare it to vanilla WoW, seriously, this is 2012 right? Sorry to say, but issues like the lack of customizable UI, was standard fare in WoW shortly after it came out. People have a right to expect more from a newly launched mmo. It feels like this game has taken the genre two steps backward.
Before you start going off on me, I have not played WoW since Burning Crusade, and Im sure blizzard has added a lot of features since then. This game seems like epic fail to me.
So when WoW came out, did you complain that it wasn't 100% polished? Because you know, EQ came out 5 years earlier and they should of "advanced" enough technologically to just avoid bugs and have a ton of features added? MMOs are very complex games that take awhile to develop into something good. No amount of magical technology and c/ping will change that because expectations go up, along with technology/ideas.
Customizable UI was not a WoW release feature. WoW allowed user-made mods to be made for their game to customize their UI. That didn't come till QUITE a bit later on, as people were able to make functioning mods. WoW's default UI is still quite bad for how long the game has been out, even with them using many of the user-made mod's ideas. Just further proves my point, MMOs are often quite rough on release and any MMO veteran should be able to tell you that. It is a perfectly valid point.
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I agree with OP.
Tell you fanboys why we cant just quit without making this kinda post? Because we feel like cheated, and I just want to encourage ppl who read this to quit as well!
What if I want sell you something faulty, and tell you: "Oh I will fix it in the near future, in the mean time, deal with it one way or another." Will you buy it?
The production quality is just terrible, the worst MMO I have ever played.
Interesting. So basically, because you don't like the game, you want to tear it down as you leave? You desperately want to make your one little opinion a "reality" by attempting to kill the game. Why else would you waste time posting in a video game forum of a game you hate?
Objectivist Gamer Review
in General Discussion
Posted
I fail to see how that is relevant at all. Sounds like you just want forced innovation on every aspect of the game. What a mess that would be. Be careful what you wish for.