I mentioned that The brotherhood was defeated and that was it, not how or why. And yes I did sum up the Republic WHEN IT WAS AT ITS WORST beacuse that was the whole point of that ridicoulusly long post. To sum up what the Republic and the Jedi had been reduced to. That is the enire point of these threads I spit out with regular intervals despite that I never get any answers (none that mekes any sence anyway). Why is it that every movie-hyped person can never give me an answer with any kind of facts or good reasoning behind it? Get some discusion going here, I paint a giant bullseye one my digital back and ask you to explain why the characters in the last days of the republic is not half-wits with the deductive reasoning of a cockroach and the only thing I get is a few hastily put together sentences that does not make any sence whatsoever. Anakinj is a wimp, Obi-wan is a lobotomized catholic scholl principal who can not see his students problems even when they are stuffed up his nose and Yoda could not have any less atachement to the reality of the galaxy left if he had spent the last 100 years smoking Deathsticks.

I agree, my SW was my first outlander and I was looking forward to good cutscenes with my companions and a good romance with whomever I get together with but the entire ET is emptied of it. Granted the story line is so fastpassed that there is no time for it but still.

This is what i am saying why cant the ops at least be veteran flashpoints. The last Revan mission could be an op if my memory is not completely on the fritz. At least make the ops to veteran flashpoints . I have tried to do ops but since my group always gets killed on the first boss (since it has happened a number of times with a full group im going to be bold enough to assume it was not all my fault) so at the very least make it so that you can fight the dreadmaster or any other guys with the Empires champions or the Republics heroes. Story-wise it does not make any sence either, you need 8 guys to take on one Dread masters when Jaric Kaedon took them all one with a small strike team, game mech be damned it just plain stupid.

It is not that i mind going on missions together with my fellow players. On the contrary it is quite fun every once in a while. But I am a RPG-player first an foremost so what I would like most of all is to be able to play all these fun Flashpoints and ops by myself and just enjoy the story without having to worry about a mega-powerfull boss that can kill 8 lvl 70 players without blinking. On top of that there is also at least one flashpoint colicoid war games that can not be found in the group finder and can only be played on veteran mode so you have too sit on the fleet and ask people all over for help. So Bioware please in the name of good story-experience let us players go throught the story on our own terms and just enjoy the game as just a good RPG like all the other good games that you have released.

Which is why I talked about the movies and the clone wars and rebels series and not the games or the books or anything else. My biggest problem with films is that they are said to be when the jedi are at their peak but everything I see in the canoon and legends screams BS. What I really want is a debate were people explain to me why the jedi are supposed to be that. All I get when I post these threads are not answers but dodging commentaries and answers that has nothing to do with the question. And the Republic is at its worst as you said so no use talking about that.

They have no relation whatsoever. Marr is simply a term for hurting or scaring someone so it was taken by Darth marr as his sith name. We see with every other sith lord, Thanaton and Mortis both mean death, Nox mean darkness or night. Ravage and Maul have pretty much the same meaning and then we have The Darths Howl, Tyranus and of course Scourge even if he is not a darth. The sith takes on this funny names to separate themselfes from their early lives and to seem more terrifing. Visas last name was just a name probably just a Miraluka name or just a name tosed out at random by a name generator.

My advice is wait and see. And since the Darth is a Muun who looks human put on a stretcher and snoke looks like a caricature of Darth sion I would defenitly say no

I love how these threads always get off topic so easy. And I have to say that I am impressed by the number of views that this thread has, 100 800 views as i write this is a staggering number. Even if it counts the same guy going back over and over it has to bee more than half of the people playing this game, My take on this topic is that they would both end up dead if it came to blows. They both jave enormous power and they would probably end up collapsing the building or starship they fought in. If they fought in the open they would go on and on until they simply ripped eachother apart with sorcerey lightning and force blasts. And if you are going to set up a cage match you have to say where it happens if iis one on one ore any other circumstances otherwise we can discuss this until the next big bang. Im writing a fanfic about how a confontation would plau out if all the Player characters would en up confonting eachother. Which website would be best to post it one?

When we play all these powerhouses that we play one thing that gets in the way of the perfect experience (at least for me) is the limited abilities you get. And I know why they do it to balance out the classes and the like. The SW and the JK is very good at one on one and the SI and the JC are good att crowd control roughly put. But if you think lore-wise what kind of abilities would the force users really have if this game was a little more like KOTOR and you could customize a bit more? At the very leastyou should be able to at least get the basic abilities every class has, like in the case of the SW the thought of that the Wrath the most powerfull sith warrior of his generation can not use force lightning is pretty silly. Even if his force blast is powerfull enough to smash people all over the place. For example I would like to see a Jugg with the basic powers of the Sorcerer. A huge towereing shadow enters the room and fills it with a devastating storm of lightning would be pretty cool. So how would you mix the classes and how would you like to see the various cutscenes get changed buy the changes. The reason for why did not include the other classes is because the only differens between them is weapons and equipment so it did not seam as importent. I rarely get any kind of respons on my threads. Is it because the topic is not interesting or is it because how I write it? Looking back I seem to read a pretty arrogant tone in my texts.

Another thing that I do not wnat to make a separate thread about. I am writting a fanfic about the clash between the player characters and I am bot sure where you can upload it. any advise?

Everytime I look at a star wars related forum I always see that people everywhere seems to think that the Jedi of the movie-era where the best that has ever been. I do not agree on that point or at least not on the point that there has never been anyone before them that could have been placed on the same level. I have made a thread where I asked exactly why people thought in that way (post it here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=924984) but I have not recieved the respons that I have been looking for. So here is a different aproach, insult and smite the o so mighty heroes an maybee they wil get angry and present me with arguments Mohahahahaha. Argument 1: In the 1000 years since the fall of the Brotherhood of Darkness the sith who succeded them pretty much manipulated and one could almost say that they unofficialy ruled the republics corrupt infrastructure for at least three of sith generations when you read the books. That controll they used to make the republic pretty much useless. Pirates and other violent elements could roam the trading lines and isolate the individual planets in the Rims and the sith used their leverage in the senate to keep the systems from mustering a functional military force to keep the violent elements under control breeding mistrust between the rim and the core that lasted al the way to the clone wars. The point of this argument is to explain how the sith could so easily make the republic and later the seperatists jump on command, one side where under a strong liked chancelor and the other where so distrusful and fearfullof the corrupt rule of the republic that they clung to the only thing that could save them. Count Dooku Argument 2: The jedi of the era wher under the dirct control of the chancelor and could not be dispatched without his/her aproval. Through that the sith could control them easily, espacialy when the senate took control over that power and pretty much let the Jedi be reduced to enforcers and bullies that were more distrusted pawns of the seante to the Rim people than anything else (the source for this argument is the books Darth Plagueis and Labyrinth of Evil). Argument 3: The jedi of the era for so afraid of the dark side that they even forbid the use of the Juyo form which resulted in them being unprepared when facing someone who had been trained in it ( I have not read the stories about Darth Maul yet but I do seem to recall that he had face of against a few jedi and a master or two before Naboo and ended up on top). They also had no experience fighting against other force users other than a few straglers here and there so why are they always hyped as the best ever to be? Time and time again the jedi masters of the era faced of aginst the cyborg generall and this bodyguards and fell but never did it occur to the jedi to take the advanced tincans with the force to turn in into big scrapballs. And of course we have that embaresing episode where a jedi high council member is stomped by Savage Opress a newbie to the force with a few months of experience at best. Argument 4: The jedi of the era were lazy and just plain stupid. They felt the dark side rising for over 300 years and they did nothing. Dooku said right to Obi-wans face that the sith ruled the republic and what did the jedi do? Nothing. Pure idiocy that is, with a little deductive reasoning and a little detective work it could al have been solved. Who had enough influence to manuever the Naboo crisis? Who cold have paid for the clone army? Who was in the position to cover up any kind of mistakes? But no the jedi just rush to the obvious threat and starts choping droids. Argument 5: The clone wars were not that big compared to the other great wars in the lore. Think abput it. The rupublic has been at peace for about a millenia, Both sides of the conflict had to wait about at least half a year into the war before they even could launch an effectice campaign bea´cause they simply laked the recources to pull it of. And the tactics the republic used were stupid as f***k. They face a pretty much brain-dead breed of enemy footsoldiers 9 times out of 10 whos only tactics is to swarm the enmy with numbers, who are so slow in their reactions and programming that the number of standard kills per clone were 20 droids (whith later sabotage that was raised to 50 droids per clone). So what do the generalls do most of the time? Take them head on thats what. The enemy had no brains and required a command ship to work and had no force users to back them up, so why not launch commando raids a la Flashpoint style and destroy the command ship and then take bets on how fast the KILL EVERYTHIN THAT MOVES backup command will take care of the rest. And then its just the plain idiocy of using only hte clone army. You find out that you have 200 000 units of clones ready for battle (how much a unit represent I do not now I have read to many estiments to be sure), great now let us use them to gain time to train another army to increase our chances. WHAT no+ we are supposed to trust an army grown and genetecly modified to fight and obey just because they helped save 20 or so Jedi and started a war?. The seperatists use armies that come out on assembly line and i think Grievous said something about outnumbering the republic 100 to 1 which is not unlikely since the war industry of the seperatist had a head start. So the citizens of the republic do not line up to fight against this mechanized threat that urns entire worlds, they just sit aound being afraid an dhope that the seperatist do not come knocking on the door. So there you have it my arguments that Jedi and Republic had no chance against the sith Grand plan since they lacked the brains to even comprhend that they had been suckered even when it was litteraly jammed in their faces. Th succes of the sith was not because of Palpatines lightsaber skills it was because the sith had spent a full millenia lobotomizing both the jedi and the republic. Thats my argument now do anyone have anything to ad? Ps. The Empires wrath at the time of SoR would use Obi-wans as a football and spank Darth Vader until he cried for mommy .

My personal favourite class is the sith warrior so naturaly I made up a story for him because in m mind he is a male human marauder and the inquisitor is a female chiss sorceress. He was born to a emperial war hero and a powerfull sith lord coming from a long line of powerfull force users. They both fought in the first war an he was raised on a hidden compound on a backwater world to hide him from rivals. There he was trained in the wilderness in both the arts of the sith and the art of survival. Living in that wasteland having to compete with bomas zakkegs and various other beasts forced him to evolve his potential to its fullest from a very early age which explains why he was able to compete with sith lords and overseers when still on korriban. When his parents were killed in a border skirmish he took the family name and traveled to korriban at the age of 17 where everyone knows what happened. After this is where I take a lot of the story in my own hand I would like to believe that he studied for a couple of months on korriban at the most judging by the speed of the story there and theat he studied for 2 years under Baras on Dromund Kass. The reason for this 2 year period is because there is a lot to do on Dromund. While there he befriended the future Darth Occulus/Imperius/Nox and that they taught eachother what the other was learning from his/her master cpmplementing their training. And of course they infiltrated the revanites and did that heroic quest where you prevent an invasion from a rouge sith lord and make a name for yourself among the sith. So he is around 19 when he goes hunting for Jeasa, a hunt that takes about half a year (always do the Balmorra story arc to cover up the fact that im hunting down Baras spies it seems so stupid not to and the BAlmorra arc seems to take some time) then he spend maybee 3 or 4 tears between act1 and 2 to train Jaesa and build a name for himself (doing flashpoints space missions and all those things you can not really put a date stamp on gaining the experience that is required to become the Wrath) untill he is called upon again to perform act2 where he is now Darth Baras unstopable enforcer and the on worthy succesor to lord Scourge the age of 24. PS. Yes this is a lot of stuff but i play a lot of RPG:s otherwise D&D, Fantasy Craft World of Darkness etc and I really like to evolve my characters background thouroghly.

I played a chiss sniper and I am really surprised that it is such a popular class. Lore wise it makes sence, the Empire is known for being xenophobic so it makes sence that it would use alien spies. I did play a pureblood sith Shadow just for fun and imagined she was an orphan found during the war and raised by the jedi.

After doing some to late reading i have discovered that my autocorrect has been making some of what I wrote seem like gibberish so please have some patiense with the nonsense words

BEFORE YOU READ ANYMORE SPOILERS ALL THE WAY!!!!!! Ok most of us who reads these threads likely agrees that the player characters is the most ****** MF:s of the era. As such theu gace probably mastered the awesome power of multitasking and as they have carved their way through the nameless hordes of villains and nobodies the idea comes to them that Hey I should probably help out and get paid for it. Which of the planet missions fits well together with how you play the character (LS DS pragmatic greedy or patriotic), and which stories yourc character would most likely take part in. Here is my top ideas: Sith warrior: As Darth Baras said specifekly to him kill everyone in the factory on Balmorra he most likely did take part in operation breaking point from beginning to end to cover up the fact that he was cleaning up any trace of Baras spy network and to score a little favour with Darth Lacriss and through her Darth Marr her master. Honestly it would have looked relly suspicious if Baras apprentice started to show up at the exact planets that was under investigation, in doing so it was so overt that it was covert. Another one that just seem so obvious was Taris, you are there to kill a whole bunch of Republic generals and I dont remember the exact details but I think you got some reinforcments with you so wy not help out Darth Gravus and gain another ally amongst the high ranking Sith. Belsavis could go either warrior or inquisitor as far as I am conserned as a warrior you are there on the emperors behalf to kill Darth Ekkage and rob Baras of a powerfull ally and maybee recruit her army of assasins (I always do that it seems so stupid not to) why notmix business with business and free the emperors most trusted and feared servants as well. SIth inquisitor: as said Belsavis fits the inquisitor quite well to if you free the dreadmasters you would gain some heavy favour with the emperor and that is someone Thanataon would not arguee against. Well maybe i could even be a joint mission? The Wrath meets his old study budy and offers her a chance to do some good for the empire and who knows what else (seriously if you could build a romance between these to I would be the first to play it hihihi). Tatooine is also one I can see the inqusitor do looking for ancient artifact in the forgoten sands of the unexplored regions of the desert world in the middle of nowhere (that for some reason happens to be a playing ground for a rediculus amount of major events troughout the entire star wars univers why is that are the writer relly so lazy that they cnat come upp with new planets?) Hoth I pu down as a maybee my favourite idea here is actually a heroic quest where som sith has gone rouge and tken their two dozen acolytes with them. Why not go in there with Khem looking al monsterlike kill the masters in a colourfull manor and offer the remaining sith to serve you, after all they get to serve a future Dark Council member and you get som new recruits to you power base, since you are trying to build one to oppose Thanaton you could use all the help you can get. Corellia is also one that the wrrior and the inquisitor could do together but iI always do it with the inquisitor because it seems so logical. Thanaton is trying to prove that you are unworthy and corrupt but you prove him wrong by helping Darth Decimus to take over one of the republic most iconic core worlds almost single handedly gaining and ally in the Dark council an giving Thanaton the finger at the same time, Now to the republic side of the fence I generally thought that most of the class stories were booring and yawned my way through them, but since i dont want to seem like a complete Empire partial A-hole her is the most obivous one for me: Belsavis with the JC. I can not see any other class doing this one since both the planet sory arc and the JC story arc evolves around handling these aliens whos name I can not remember. I did would even have known how to react to them if I haf not played the JC first. Now there was my ideas now what is yours?

There is no mention of any of the 8 main characters in the books as individuals . The hero of tython is not mentioned even if he dshould be, barsenthor should also be in there some where if we went with logic the 2 most powerfull or at least most famous jedi at the time should have been in on the operation of eleminating the single most dangerous threat in the empire. The reason? because Drew could not involve them because that would force him to make some choices about the class, gender and race that would not have suited the players and readers. My favourite inq is a LS chiss madness sorceress and my warrior is a gray human maruader but every player character comes in its own shapes and sizes and unless Bioware or anyone else eans to make a game or write a book that takes place between the old republic and the rise of Darth Ruin (a very large time-gap some 1700 years) we probably will not get a canon race or gender for our characters.

One thing that has had me scratching my head a while now is why is so the force users of the movies considered to be the finest that has ever lived? The movies themselfs does not show this since most of the stunts they pull of there seems rather commonplace and the animated series is very similar in terms of graphic impression of the jedi/sith powerlevel. The 2003 series on the other hand is so ****** that it is almost to much. And after episode 6 every fully trained was wormfood so how did Luke become so damn powerfull in Dark Empire but did not have a clue about how to detect force potential until the Thrawn trilogy? My point being is that the force-wielders of this era is recieving all of this hype but all I see is the era where a JEDI COUNCIL MEMBER (Adi Gallia) gets stomped by a newbie with just a few weeks of training at most (Savage Opress) not to mention that we have a cyborg running around that a Force anything could stop with a little effort but he takes on ANOTHER 2 COUNCIL MEMBERS + 4 other jedi and stomps them all. So with all this in mind what makes them so powerfull compared to the Jedi and Sith of the Old Republic? And no this is not a VS thread this is just me wanting an answer to a question that has been over in the beckground of every Darth this VS Jedi that that I have come across so far.

My warrior was heavily neutral, honorable and loyal tthe empire but completely ruthless to the enemies of the sith. His highest amition was to fight and to live up to the highest ideal of the sith code, trough victory my chains are broken. His opinion was that power existed to grant him his freedom to live and strive to perfection not to rule he did not care for such things. Its really funny how often sith understand a bit of their code but none that i have ever seen in any media exept Marr has ever reached the final stage trough victory my chains are broken the force shall free me. Even Vitiate or Palpatine did not realise this when power became their reason for being they trapped themeselves and the fear of losing their power became their blockage from perfection. The true power of the sith comes from striving with their passions to gain power insight and at last victory through conflict and leave the power to the ones that are strongest. That is my warriors philosophy so what he would do when the throne was his he would probably spend his time looking for Imperius (who probably left for Rishi in search of immortality as we se in SoR) to see if he/she i fit to rule because Imperius was to only one other than himself and Marr who could lead the sith empire.

You said it

Defenetly informative but that still does not answer the question why are they called the seven forms when at leat on of them is a completely separete style altogether. That typical attitude in media that there must always be 3, 7 or 13 of something is really tiresome sometimes the numers 9, 10 or 29 are not that ugly.

5 of the seven forms of lightsaber combat are clearly individual forms but when you come to Form 5 and 7 it really gets fussy. Form 5 is divided into djem so and shien and focuses on powerfull defense folllowed by offence but there seems to be where the similarities stop from everything I have read. Shien focuses on returning blaster fire to the shooter and maybe on dominating more than one enemy but it is weak against a single enemy. Djem so is an aggresive version of soresu inpenetrable defense followed by powerfull blows that crushes most resistance but leaves the fighter somewhat unflexible one would say perfect for fighting a single enemy? A wellknown example of this is the Anakin vs Dooku thing. When Anakin uses shien on Dooku he loses badly but when he uses djem so later he completely stomps Dooku. Which leads me to assume that both forms may have the same philosphy of dominating the opponent but they seem to be so different in terms of moves, aproach and focus that they are two completely separet styles. And now two form 7 juyo and vaapad. Juyo is the classic form 7 unpredictable vicious and aggresive that much is established but how do vaapad differ from it? Master windu may have come up with a few new moves and such (the forms have been around for at least 5000 years so someone must soone or later) but the only difference I can find is that while juyo forces the user to channel is own passion to fight, vaapad lets the one who fully masters it draw on the darkness within the opponent to fuel his own prowes. And that just sounds exactly like what our beloved lord Scourge is doing on a daily basis so is vaapad really form (and a state of mind as Windu say it) or ist it just a few new moves and a handy force power because nothing in what I have read seems to destinguish it from the juyo form other than that. And now to main reason for this thread. Are the seven forms really seven? Because form 5 and 7 either seems like they both have two completely different styles in them or are the forms just named 1 2 3 4 etc because of their base pilosophies? If so they really are propely named as the seven forms. If not they should really be called the NINE forms simply because the different styles in 5 and 7 are just to different. PS. Please forgive the misspelling english is a second language to me.

Actually both Sith and Jedi talks about the more extreme dark force powers as spells and ritualls rather than just as force powers.

Kiras absence is weird but not Scourges if you ask me. From a sith point of view what would be the first thing that the SW does when he/she becomes the Wrath? The wrath prove that he/she is truly wothy by killing the predecesor. That should be the epilouge for the warrior because what else would he do it should be the first thing that comes to mind, KILL THE TRAITOR and its about 5 years between the SW story arc and the FE, he/she has had years to kill Scourge or at least find out why he betrayed the Empire.

I have read the Bane-trilogy and i have played all the character-stories aand one thing that I never understood is how does jedi counter true sorcery? Some things can be countered like the Insanity power when your will is strong enough and but the more advanced things just eludes me. If a really powerfull sorcerer uses the death field which I think is a spell (even if Bane who is not a sorcerer uses it on one occasion) what kind of Jedi-related force power can negate it if Sidious who was said to be a master of the art and who came from Banes lineage had used it he would have crushed the 4 master in true Kreia-style. Another spell that Zannah uses is also a very nasty one. She is giving the dark side physical form shaping it into tendrils that destroyes anything they come into contact with, which is the spell she beats Bane with. a spell that could not be harmed with Force lightning. With all these extremely nasty powers at their disposal (even if sorcerers ar not very common if Bane was right) how do Jedi go about killing these fantasy like fantasy-like OP guys because I have not found anything in the lore that allows Jedi to do so, those force shield every force user learn defends them from lightning an telekinetic blasts not from mind games and tentacles of doom. If anyone nows how they do it please tell me.

Is it just me or does it apear like the SI story almost entirely consist of elements that places in the sorcerer-department? Personally i loved going in with the madness-tree feeling like the next Vitiate ripping minds apart frying Jedi and draining SIth of their power to heal myself. but when i replayed it as an assassin the entire story arc seemed a little like pair of odd boots. I can clearly see the sorc do the ghost thing and perform the rituals but the assassins powers is just that an assassins. In my own opinion (feel free to convince me otherwise) the assassin should start be split from the sorc and be given a new story arc maybe with elements taken from the kotor 2 assassins handbook. In that game they were the horrible threat that you never saw untill it was to late and it kept you on your toes during the entire game. The same goes for the jedi shadow- A sage is pretty much a tall Yoda with a boring vocabulary ( I yawned my way through the entire plot) but the shadow have a lot of potential as well. It would bee fun playing behind the scnery balancing on the very edge of the Jedi code (lets face it Force in balande is just death field with different name beacuse of game mechanics). And yes I do now that Bioware would probaly never do this because it would require to reboot the entire game but to me it would be fun and it would be an oppurtunity to add some other classes at the same time. Ok now my opinion is out here floating feel free to ripp it to pieces:D:D