To be fair here, and I greatly appreciate all of your efforts for the maximization of Carnage/Combat, placing your abilities as the standard would be a great disservice to the rest of the Carnage/Combat community. You are the pinnacle Carnage/Combat user. The best of the best. That is not intended as flattery, but a mere statement of fact. I know of no other Carnage/Combat practioner who would dare even make the claim of achieving 5k+ dummy parses. I question even those who make the claim of achieving 4.8+k dummy parses. I do not question nor doubt your skill or ability but you are an exception, not the rule. I have been a carnage user for about 3 years. I play no other characters but my Marauder, I parse everyday, I have studied every guild, applied every variant rotation suggested, tried every build. I have never once exceeded 4.5k on a dummy parse, and have reached that 4.5k dummy parse only once. I average between 4.2 and 4.4 (mostly closer to the 4.2 than the 4.4). I recognize that dummy parses are a difference beat than actually Operations. (I am a high end, end game HM progression raider). But those numbers only go down (by and large, there are some exceptions) in Rav/ToS HM Operations. Clipping Ravage during a Gore Window (precision. you'll forgive me, I'm an Imp so I will go with that lingo for ease), isn't a science, nor sneaking in a Vicious Throw or DST. All the more so during actual combat. Raid mechanics that force a Marauder to move are sometimes completely unavoidable (this is a recap, I know you know all this stuff), and even when you know its coming (even when employing timers), adjusting one's rotation to such split second timing (i.e. gravity bombs during Sword Squadron in HM) is near impossible. You can just about count on a 3 second Gore window during dummy parsing to fit all that is possible to fit in it in it. During an actual fight during an Operation that ease changes for most of us. Granted all that extra rage you build during live fights is a great boon and opens up many more options than one finds during dummy parsing, but it does nothing with regard to fitting in your most devastating attacks into a 3 second Gore window while dealing with raid mechanics. With regard to the disparity DPS wise between Annihilation and Carnage. While you may be able to produce so much DPS than it limits that divide to a mere 200 variance. To the majority of us, your highest DPS is akin to a wet dream =] Annihilation has it much harder now, all the more so because tracking DoTs seamlessly with the melee unfriendly mechanics on the 60 OPs (much more so in HM) and the need for raid awareness is made much more difficult (Alacrity certainly is more advantageous to Anni now in such regard), and thus has lowered their general average under those specific conditions. Truth be told, that variance in DPS between the 2 specs is not really an issue for me personally. It always did more sustained, nothing new there. Just to be clear. None of this is in anyway meant as a slight to you. Quite the opposite. You know I respect your awesome skills and have always been a fan of your guides, which have been treasure troves of knowledge for Carnage users. I have employed every last one of your suggestions. Sadly, I have never reached the heights you have. Naturally I cannot account the reasons why. It could be many things. Internet connection. Lag. FPS. (Tech issues). Gear I'm sure plays a part (I'm not as well geared as you - I am geared slightly more than half in Revanite - the rest 192 armorings (set bonus in 3 of the 6 set bonus pieces, but 198 otherwise mods/enhancements), Off-hand 198, but MH still 192 (hilt wise). I'm sure the 204 MH helps! Than of course there is always the possibility I'm just a baddie. Always possible. While I am on The Shadowlands server, I am only on the IMP side. I wish I could come to your side of the fence to visit, because I would love nothing more than to take you up on your offer to do some training under you. I don't know how you are able to do so much DPS to those heights consistently, God knows I wish I did! You are the best of the best, so please temper my words with that in mind. ~ Grim

I hate to be an *** here. But once again we find ourselves discussing matters of fixing class/spec problems and using PVP as a basis for making points. If every single problem/concern was addressed with regard to the issues facing Marauder players in PVP, it would do nothing to solve the problems the class faces on the whole. There are infinitely more Marauder players (probably more so than any other class in the game) in PVE than in PVP. Marauders on the whole (there are exceptions) absolutely suck in PVP. (speaking mostly of Ranked). The numbers don't lie. And even the rare successful Marauder is not even close to the TOP rankings of many other classes. Right now the top Ranked Marauder on the Leader Boards is Zhorred ranked at 2002. There are only 2 lower. Juggernaut's Top is ranked 1913 (These are the "Warrior" classes mind you.) The Juggernaut is underdone by only one class, surprisingly, the Merc (but given the ranking is 1907, they are virtually tied at worst). Okay, so how outdone is the Marauder by the other classes? By a ton. Top spot goes to Sorc at 2904, virtually tied by PT at 2903. = 700 difference. I would be very happy to hear that the issues facing Marauders in PVP were addressed. But exactly where these issues have anything to do with a discussion regarding set bonus improvements for the class as whole is beyond me. Any PVP issue that was addressed via Set Bonus would hurt the class. Bulo cannot interrupt a gore window. (the circle hell can force us to move) Sword Squadron cannot root us. (But unless your a sniper, when Gravity bomb hits, your getting pulled to the center no matter what.) We're not getting stunned 3 times in a row virtually back to back in PVE. We're not fighting sorcs and their God bubbles. Nor dealing with the utter BS of Juggs free Heal to full. (True warriors should not be able to have such potent self heals no matter how you word it, as a class ability no less. As a tank it's a different matter. They're not making claims to being DPS.) There are no pocket healers in PVE (In PVE they have to worry about everyone). CC breakers (while very useful even in PVE) won't stop Sparky from drop kicking you half a football field away. The best way to help the PVP community would be by vying for a distinct and separate system all together from PVE. A PVP set bonus. You have PVP gear. You have PVP vendors. You have PVP armoring's. A PVP set bonus should be a natural extension. Separate but equal. But even with that in mind no conceivable set bonus could come even remotely close to closing such a huge disparity in DPS as we see in the numbers on the Leaderboard for Ranked. The only thing that could come from class wide changes. I am of the personal opinion, that there is no excuse for such a low performance of one of the 2 pure DPS ACs. The pure DPS AC (Sniper) is virtually tied with Marauder at 2006. In my opinion, and there will likely be many who take exception this this, there should be no other class/AC, that out DPS' a Marauder or a Sniper. Generally speaking. Period. (On equal footing - Level, Gear, Experience, etc.) PURE DPS means nothing but DPS. No other options. No other roles that can be switched to in a tight spot. No healer/Tank switches. No hyped up healing, no added defenses. You go in, you fight to the hilt, or you die. I can think of no other reason to play a "pure" DPS class/AC other than to do top DPS. If one guy trains in Martial Arts everyday. And another guy trains in Martial Arts on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and on the other days he takes painting classes, which one of these individuals is more likely to be the better Martial Artist in the long run? An Assassin, someone trained fundamentally to avoid direct combat, taught to kill people without the people even knowing they are there to put up resistance, who runs and hides when hides when things get rough, only to come back once they've healed up some (all during "combat") and stab people in the back while they are stunned and once again can't offer resistance during that time, who can switch to a highly Defensive state (defence being the diametrical opposite of offense), these people fair better on a battlefield than a trained highly honed single minded offensive warrior who has not spent one split second training to do anything else but fight on a battlefield is not only utter *********, it is immensely unfair. (If an Operation or a "Warzone" could be defined during times of combat as anything other than a battlefield I need to look up the definition of the word). We can make such a comparison to history. The Ninja and the Samurai. ( I have trained in martial arts in real life, and thus had a natural interest in some of it's history). A ninja was an assassin in the truest sense of the word. The Samurai was a trained warrior in the truest sense of the word (Althought to be fair, samurai also studied poetry, and painting and philosophy as it was simple part of the prevalent culture of the times). Ninja were trained in combat as well, but only as a last resort, and even when confronted they had equipment and even "magic tricks" (kuji kiri) that would help them to try and avoid combat and make an escape (gas bombs, powders to blind a purser, caltrops also to stop them being chased, etc). But even if they could not avoid combat, while they were trained in combat, they generally faired poorly one on one against a trained samurai warrior. So what the hell? What are Marauders for than? Why play them when a PT can out DPS us (not accounting for the exceptional players of the class) and still have all that armor, utility, and ohh yeah, can switch to a tank? I do pretty well in my raid group, but King of DPS? I am not. Sometimes I come out on top, sometimes I don't. And if the forums are any indication. I am not the only Marauder who shares this sentiment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forgive the going off on a tangent, regretably I fall victim to that sometimes. I'll try to avoid that in the future. To the OP: Solidarity is hard to find when your calling for things that would hurt the rest of us. I hope you get your due for PVP. I really really do. You deserve it. I just hope it is not at the expense of the rest of us. I'd like to see us all get our due as Marauders. ~ Grim

Again, I must agree with Jauvtus. We must keep in mind that the predominant problems facing Marauders in the current meta is the class itself, not the specs per say. Sure, each has issues, Anni is has a less than ideal rotation to say the least, keeping up it's DOTs seamlessly is exceedingly difficult given the absolute need for raid awareness due to the melee unfriendly mechanics in the 60 OPs ( predominately), Carnage's gore window which is it's lifeblood is so fleeting and so easily interrupted by raid mechanics, and if I understand the issues with Fury correctly, it has ability bloats and moves like a snail. Addressing these issues (and these are just a sample of the issues of course), would be very difficult to do so appropriately, in the manner which they deserve, via set bonus. That which is granted on all 3 levels of the set bonus must be equally advantageous to all 3 specs. Were it not, it would cause a rift within the Mara community itself. We have enough problems heh. Furthermore, it should be irrespective of variant builds (alacrity, crit heavy, etc.). No matter how bad Anni's rotation is, or how snail like Fury performs, neither of these things effect me in the least as a Carnage marauder. That said, despite that, I still want Anni and Fury to get their proper due. (And Carnage too!!). After all, we're Marauders. We kill ****. That's what we do. That's all we do. "Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain in the galaxy." ~ Grim P.S. I think Pathcarver increases DPS directly.

I think perhaps you mistook my meaning, or more likely my wording was poorly chosen. My meaning was with regard to a damage bonus, no that a burst spec should do more damage over all than a sustained damage spec. A damage bonus let's say of 5%, even were it given to only Carnage and Fury (which I don't think would be fair, damage bonus should be applied to all or none), it still would not overtake Anni for sustained damage. Burst specs do more damage than sustained specs in the short term, sustained specs do more damage than burst specs in the long term. It can be no other way. This sort of leaves carnage in a weird spot, because it is no longer a burst spec in the traditional sense, nor a sustained spec, it is equally both. I'm for any improvements to be for the Marauder class. All the specs have individual needs, to be sure, but to any specific spec a change can only be applied through their respective discipline abilities. A set bonus, nor utilities is the place to affect specs, its a place to affect the Marauder class. I also agree with you on your thoughts on the "homogenizing of classes". This also extends to the pvp crap. They should not be addressing one bloody thing that regards pvp in overall class amendments or set bonus'. PVP has its own gear and vendors. Give them their own damn set bonus pieces the same way they get their pvp gear. Not a big stretch. ~ Grim

My ideas regarding the set bonus' is this. Do not change them. At level 65 additional attributes are than added to those already existing. At the 6 piece level the addition could be unique to each spec (much like it is now regarding the different attacks the autocrit can be achieved with) or all encompassing. Personally I'd prefer to see it unique to each spec to give it an added flavor and thus coloring some of the differences between the specs. Regarding the DPS 5% bonus from set pieces - I'm not sure if I understood the comment regarding the DPS bonus from set piece "Note: Our intent is to have set bonuses not increase DPS by more than 5%. Please keep this in mind when posting your suggestions." Does this mean as it already provides a 5% DPS bonus as is (so no further increase), or if it cannot be increased by 5% in addition to the preexisting 5% DPS bonus. Given that is almost universally considered necessary for Marauder to receive a DPS increase for competitive DPS viability I suggest At the 2 and 4 piece level increase the damage percent bonus so as to achieve an additional 5% damage increase. So at level 65 the 2 piece set bonus damage increases from 2% to 5%. At level 65 the 4 piece set bonus damage increases from 3% to 5%. Another idea would be to increase the duration of the damage increase i.e. •2-Piece: Battering Assault or Zealous Strike increases damage dealt by 2% for 30 seconds (Up from 15). Cannot occur more than once every 30 of seconds. •4-Piece: Reduces the cool down of Frenzy or Valorous Call by 15 seconds. Additionally, activating Berserk or Zen increases all damage dealt by 3% for 20 seconds (Up from 10). --------------------------------------------------------- Regarding the level 6 piece bonus (I'll only address Carnage as there are others that know the other 2 specs better than me and would be better able to make proper suggestions regarding those specs) These ideas are not presented as being all inclusive, merely a list of things that could be considered individually. Additionally some of these ideas are base line suggestions (brain-storming) that would need to be fleshed out with regard to the specifics by better minds than my own =] •6-Piece: Activating Ravage, Master Strike, Dual Saber Throw, or Twin Saber Throw will grant Weaponmaster's/Challenger's Critical Bonus making your next Vicious Throw, Furious Strike and Annihilate or Dispatch, Concentrated Slice and Merciless Slash critically hit. This effect can't occur more than once every minute. **** In addition at level 65 (add one of the following ideas) ***** * Gore window duration increases to 4.5 seconds (up from 3 seconds) (or a flat 5 a half of a second is barely perceptible) * Gore window ceases to be on a timer, and in it's place flat charges are given on a charge for charge basis.(Given the melee unfriendly mechanics found in the many of the operations that force melee to move we lose so much potential. The gore window is the bread and butter of the spec, without it we are nothing. Give us our do. If the operation mechanic forces us to move there is nothing we can do about it. This is vastly unfair to Carnage and has an innate hamstringing effect. This is like saying God gave us 10 fingers but half the time he only lets us use 6 of them. * Ravage can be used while moving/ damage buff to it (Nuff said). * A surge bonus that applies to the autocrit *A cool down decrease to berserk or gore is applied after the the autocrit. * Gore now does damage (Like it use to be before 3.0) * A self-heal effect based on some ratio to the damage inflicted by the autocrit. (A "vampire" effect, if you will) The Marauder is in dire need of improvement in various areas( QoL, mobility, lack of cc ability and too limited amount of cc breakers, competitive DPS, self-heals, etc. ) I do not think, in most of these areas, they should be addressed within the confines of set bonus' (Except for DPS and self-heals), but rather in the class itself. (Disciplines, utilities, skills, passives, etc.) Please forgive any spelling and grammatical errors. I suck that way sometimes. =] ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

I think all 3 specs should be given a flat damage bonus. Anni is no more deserving of it than any of the other specs. Anni already does more than the other 2 overall, if anything it should be Carnage and Fury that get it (Which isn't to say Anni shouldn't get it. Merely that no spec has some sort of divine right to have greater damage than any other one.) ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

This isn't meant as a criticism , but we should all remember that there are 3 specs, I think we should as a community have solidarity. We want to improve the class, not just one spec. Fixing any one spec does not fix marauders. Even though I am a carnage marauder I'm all for anni getting its do, but carnage and fury should be equally addressed. This is infinitely more important than the set bonus. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

I am a Carnage Marauder as well and am I geared very similarly. Your numbers are pretty much where mine are as well, so I think your on target. I'm trying to optimize as well. Your crit rating is high for a Carnage marauder, considering that generally speaking running no crit is advised (or a limited amount) my dps is slightly higher than yours (my main hand damage bonus is + 2421) but my crit chance is 20% so you can see where the additional crit you have is coming from (less damage bonus). There is nothing wrong with having some crit in my opinion. (Hell Hayete runs crit, and when it comes to Carnage he's an authority on the subject!) I think perhaps you have a bit too much, but ultimately people have different styles of play they like to emphasize. If you enjoy it and it works for you, do your thing. The differences, when you come right down to it (number's wise) are minor, 1 or 2% crit more or less isn't going to have a drastic effect on your overall dps. I've tried more crit, more surge, more alacrity, etc, and I really never noticed a big difference to my dps overall. That said, I think your numbers are fine for where you're at gear wise. Play what you feel. As long as you're happy with it, that's what matters most. Besides, in October, when the new gear tier comes along, that's where you'll start to see some differences worth noting with your numbers. I wouldn't worry too much about it until than. Sides, I think you're doing pretty damn good as it is now =] Carnage Mara's are the only REAL Maras after all =p J/k ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

This is it in a nutshell. Underlurker himself is not difficult. It's the adds that get you, not only because u need some decent dps to take them down fast because you only have a limited amount of uptime on them because the rocks start falling fairly quickly after the adds appear, but also because the damage they do can pack a wallop (the fewer people on a Lurkerling the more damage they will take, so a single person will take more damage from the lurkerling than 2 people will take). If the adds aren't killed by the time u must hide behind a rock, that add remains, but you must immediately get to the boss for the cross phase so when the new adds appear after the cross you still have to contend with the lurkerlings still up from previous phase in addition to the 3 new ones that spawn. This creates a ton of aoe damage and can decimate a raid if there are too many up. - A big mistake some groups make is that they don't have the tank move Underlurker away from the adds (some think that it you tank him on top of adds you can aoe damage the adds and Underlurker, this is a mistake in my experience. The fight is all about mechanics. The cross phase seems to be problematic in that either that some people aren't positioned correctly for cross and just the buggyness that can be found. (Even when people are properly positioned sometimes the cross fails anyway.) Some people are intimidated by this fight, and this can produce reluctance which can lead to wipes. This is one of those cases where trial and error must be allowed so that people aren't so intimated. Its ok to make mistakes, that's what progression is all about - try, take some lumps, change, adapt. Don't be so intimidated that it causes you not to try and drop group after some wipes. Wipes are what help you to learn. "That didn't work, ok, let's try this than, etc.). Once you get the mechanics down, the only thing that really stands in your way are the adds. The adds are everything. You can fail some crosses and still beat Underlurker. The adds are far less forgiving. You must deal with them appropriately (not always an easy thing even when you know what your doing) because you can't beat Underlurker if you don't beat them. (You can however ignore them when you reach burn phase, this is generally done in fact. There's some tight timing issues involved which are much of the mechanics. Be willing to wipe. Be will to take some lumps, but most importantly, never say die. If you don't get it this week, you try again next week using what you have learned from previous attempts to your advantage. Progression raiders do not rage quit and they don't give up. They keep going back for me until the get it right. It's just like anything else in that regard. The more experience you obtain the better you become at it. Pugging groups have a harder time with this fight than raid groups for the above mentioned reasons, but it can be done pugging with the right people. People who quite after 2 or 3 wipes on any fight aren't raiders. Not everyone has the same experience. Not everyone has the same understanding of their respective classes. Not everyone has the same level of gear. This is what makes pugging this fight a bit harder. Sure, repair bills can be increasingly more expensive the more wipes that occur. But repair costs are "the price of doing business". You want the better gear? Than you have to be willing to pay the toll. Every group is different. Don't make the mistake of thinking that if your group was unable to down Underlurker that it has anything necessarily to do with you. We can't control the actions of others. It's a team effort. If one person is not doing what they need to be, it can effect the outcome of a fight. Keep going at it. It used to be hard for all of us before we figured some things out about the fight (mechanics and such), but now we can clear it on a weekly basis. If you keep at it, one day it will be you giving the advice. You can do it. Give him hell. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

If that is in fact that case, that the majority of players do not do Operations (which I would be really surprised to learn for players 50-60), well than I guess there is a case to be made for their lack of new Operations in 4.0. This would nonetheless totally utterly blow for those players who do Operations regularly, and from what I see that's a ton of players. (I am myself a hardcore end game progression raider). I am not at all unhappy about new story content, I am very excited about it and looking forward to it. But it's finite and is when all is said and done like 16 hours of new game play that you're never doing again on the character once you've completed it. That the new storyline is not class specific means that even if you play the storyline again on alts (which obviously people with alts will do; I only play one character myself.), it's virtually the same exact experience over and over again and not repeatable on the same character. That's to little time to keep me going and happy without new Operations. If they don't follow up with new operations within the near future once 4.0 drops, that'll be a deal breaker for me. I'm a paying customer, I'm not gonna keep on paying for the same crap over and over again, especially when I can't even do it over and over again (new storyline content) once I've completed it. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

You put that excellently. I have found the same with regard to Annihilation (or as you rotten, awful pubs call it, Watchman =p) While I started with Carnage (Combat), and still use it even years later, I gave it (and still do from time to time) [Annihilation] a good go. I never seem to parse as well with it as I can with Carnage. As of the latest patches 3.1/3.2, even old school diehards are noting it is not what it used to be. It never felt right to me, so slow and clunky, keeping track of the dots is a hassle and takes away vital raid awareness IMO. I'm sure those better versed in it would have an easier time at that, but, it just feels so slow and clunky and lackluster to me. But than, we come back to the point of preference. There's no real right or wrong when it comes to that, and none of the specs are raid breaking. Each excels in some small aspect of the raid experience somewhat more than another and less in some other. Playing what one "feels" and give it your all, I think is probably the best advice one could give , as you said in your own words. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

Without a conscious, intentional, and well thought out addressing of the competitiveness of melee dps with ranged in terms of baseline damage output, mobility, and utility, melee dps is doomed in the long run in end game progression raiding. As noted by the a previous poster, "the philosophy of 'if every class has a spec that's roughly in a 7-8% range from where we want the top to be; we're happy." is simply misleading and damning to melee dps. There are so many who simply seek to address this by asking already established melee dps end game progression raiders (myself included) to change classes and adopt one of the more viable ranged dps classes. Often sighting "what's best of the group", group loyalty, and the 'real differences' being only an aesthetic one (animations). There may be some truth to that, but, additionally let us not forget a few converse points. Melee players who were asked to join said raid groups as melee, signed on to play that character. What is wrong with loving a particular character? Not all of us have alts. I realize that is a rarer circumstance, but it is not a non existent one. I play only the one character. (Carnage Marauder - the other Sith Warrior). Even were I willing to take on a new role, how long would it take to become equally competent, rotation muscle memory, proper gearing for hard more 60 progression raiding, (given the x 12 exp the leveling process would be less of an issue), etc, there would still be the issue of not wanting to be apart of the extinction process of the most iconic of the Star Wars classes, the lightsaber wielding force-users. I know some would disagree, but, what the hell is the point of gearing up and playing characters one has no real interest in playing? Does that make me and others of similar mind one-dimensional? Perhaps. But we like what we like, and, I don't like ranged. So what does that leave those of us with such sentiments, sentiments, that few could argue people have a right in holding, be viewed as "wrong" or unwanted outright for not wanting to play something that would bring you no joy in playing, or playing something that brings you no joy. Making the iconic classes (lightsaber wielders) sub-par and a detriment to end game progression raiding on such a scale as to make them almost universally unwanted (even if begrudgingly tolerated in some quarters) is just downright wrong on bioware's part. There is no ****en way that they don't know exactly what is going on with this in exact detail. I don't believe for one bloody second they lack the game testers of sufficient skill and understanding to be fully aware of the mess they have made with this. There is no excuse. I am not saying bioware of bad across the board. I think that people are often too quick to give them a bad rap across the board and I don't always think it's deserve. In this case, however, it is well deserved. No one's that stupid as to be so unaware of such a colossal problem to game play for so many. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

I agree 100%. Although I would say that dummy parsing is a different beast than actual boss fights. Dummy parsing gives you 100% uptime without any need to move for any reason, and while it also makes one more energy deprived than one would likely be in a boss fight (rage i.e.), the differences between dummy parsing and boss fight make dummy parsing a bad gauge. Great for getting rotation into muscle memory, but not necessarily in getting an actual idea of dps performance in a boss fight (naturally this includes adds that often present themselves periodically in boss fights in operations) Giving mDPS higher baseline damage than rDPS would go a long way in correcting the dps disparity between rdps and mdps you find in operations. There is no question that in the current meta almost all mechanics do favor ranged over melee, most dramatically in the level 60 Operations (Ravagers and ToS). Less uptime of the mdps offset by the higher baseline damage would go a long way to addressing this disparity. The "higher risk for higher potential rewards" premise should be the order of the day for melee. -- I do however think that melee should be more difficult to a certain degree. It only makes sense. When BIG BOSS X-Monsterly-Dude is swinging his 10 foot long electrified laser whip in a 180' arc in front of him, naturally this would be more of a threat to someone standing right in front or to the side of him, and obviously much less so (if at all), to those standing at a greater distance from him pew-pewing away at him. No guts, no glory. Sure, snipers can rain down on their foes hellish fire, but no one is calling a sniper brave. But they do tend to live longer than the guy trying to pummel the big-bad to death. It's wrong that they should get everything. This is Star Wars. Making the lightsaber users sub-par and what's worse, a detriment to a raid group, is not only impractical from a genre-enabling perspective ( wanting to keep the Star Wars 'feel'), its just plain *****en stupid. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

One would be hard pressed to argue that logic. The thing is, this is Star Wars, and trying to take lightsabers out of Star Wars would be like trying to take swords out of D&D. Sure there are other weapons equally good, but, they're intertwined in the genre. There will always be people who want to play the roles of the iconic lightsaber/force users. What's the answer than? How do you offset the downsides of having melee dps in the raid group? You don't because you can't, but you keep on trying anyways =p A group full of Mercs and PTs loses something in the translation. Not saying it can't be done that way, clearly it can be and done well. But Pandora's box has already been opened. People aren't gonna want to put their lightsabers back into it and shove it back under the bed for safe keeping. They'd miss the hum of a lightsaber too much. Here's hoping that BW will come along and surprise the crap out of us in 4.0 and rectify some of the problems melee have been facing since 3.0 dropped. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

Anyone who does not let the oft ill recieved Marauder disappear into virtual extinction, whether in PVE or PVP gets my nod. While I agree that carnage really isn't difficult to play in theory, one wrong move can set the whole rotation off and lose preciuos burst for the next 12 seconds until the next gore window can be obtained. It's fast ride (and thats what I love about carnage, that lightning speed from beserk), and takes some split second planning ahead to changing enviorns and circumstances to make sure you have the proper resources to make the best use of the next gore window. Hontesly, I dont find much rage starvation, dummy parsing can be tight, but in actual combat, obtaining rage is quite easy. Its really just about maintaining (or as close as possible) the rotation to keep it flowing towards gore and not just mash whats available in the moment. Give em hell. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ DPS Jugg as a melee shares all the pitfalls of any melee in the melee unfriendly dynamics you find in the end game (60 OPS) Raiding, most groups will want to limit the amount of melee they have in a raid group, the more melee you have the more problems that arise so they will want to use the melee slot for a dps who can pump out the most damage. Mara's have a slight edge over Juggs dps wise. And while it is reasonable to say that the trade off for having a Jugg is greater survivability, ultimately a dps's main function is to do as much damage as possible. Marauder's do more damage. Not that the difference is drastic, but given enrage timers and the like, you want to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time, and sometimes even precious seconds can make the difference. Mara's have some decent dcds, Juggs certainly have the edge in that but, a Marauder who uses his dcds wisely can use them to good effect to keep himself going. It's all well and good to be able to take a good beating, melee are right up there in the bosses face too (So to speak) and Juggs excel at that very well, but dps's main function is dps first. If you can't make the dps check, all that will do is leave you is the last man standing. If a group doesn't want more than one mdps running around because of the melee bad rap, most of the time they are going to choose a Mara for the damage edge.

Guardian DCDs are OP = live longer Sentinel CDs = more team utility + dot cleanse. What do you guys think? You pretty much answered your own question. Maras do a bit more damage than Juggs (even more so when the Jugg is tank geared) ( evenly geared/level), Juggs have better survivability. Additionally, other poster is correct with regard to not being able to cleanse dots. Thats a throw back to pre 3.0 and applied to bosses as well. Concentraition (Fury) isn't very popular. This may be a hold over from mara rage spec pre 3.0, as rage became Fury in 3.0. Juggs were better in rage spec than maras. I'd say 75% of Maras (or you pub bastards - Sentinels =p) are Anni (watchman), 20% Carnage (Combat), and 5% Fury (Concentraition) or there abouts at any rate, least on the IMP side. I dont care for it because its just do damn clunky and slow. I agree, the main emphasis seems to be on Anni (Watch man) which kinda sucks for the other 2 specs. But I guess its simply because more people play that spec than the others. Play what you enjoy the most. It's not like the differences are so extreme that any spec (or class Mara/ Jugg) is incapable of clearing something the others can. That's all about the player's level of skill, knowledge of how the class works and preforms best and not giving up on playing what you love. The more you use something, the better you'll get at it. Takes some work and practice. Play what you feel. Good luck. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

There is no best discipline for maras in pvp. While there are some notable exceptions of course, maras in the current meta simply aren't well equipt to deal with pvp dynamics. I play a Carnage Marauder. I love Marauders. We suck in pvp. I do tend to agree with OP however, at least in spirit. I've heard that carnage is the best spec for pvp as well, but carnage marauders are too easy to shut down with present gore window design. With all the stuns, mezzes and roots that many other classes can throw out and with our very limited capcity to break them, the second an enemy sees your buff bar when you start gore you get shut dowm most of the time. You might as well take a nap. Yet sometimes ya do stumble on a Mara that does quite well. PVE, however is another matter. While end game progression raiding with its well known melle unfriendly mechanics, can be difficult for maras. in skilled hands a Mara can still hold his own, not like he used to though, we definately still need some love. I hold my own, but it is hard sometimes. You see Mara's wearing revanite gear, that's gotta say something at least. Let's hope with 4.0 some of these pitfalls Maras have been facing since 3.0 are addressed. ~ Grim Mara's rule! "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

Excellent work as usual and much appreciated. For those of us who revel in the power and corruption of the Darkside, the translation into Imp-enese is a great asset as we strive to bring the greatest amount of mayhem and destruction to our enemies. (Which is pretty much everyone =p). You're practical approach and the context you provide cuts through a great deal of ambiguity you sometimes find in other guides. It seems everywhere you look these days most of the marauders/sentinels you come across are Anni/watchman practitioners. I have tried the other specs, given time to trying them out, but I cannot let go of the speed, grace, and power that is Carnage. I hope at some point it is given it's do as I do not feel that just because Anni/Watchman has been seen as the best single target DPS spec that it has some divine right to always be so. Carnage can be very powerful and you set a outstanding example that testifies to that. While it is seemingly simple in terms of rotation and expectation, it's a fast ride and you have to hold on tight to keeping it flowing through it's DPS peaks and valleys and not go off course. But when it's good, its REALLY good and you can almost feel it sometimes heh. Thank you for your efforts and your continued support of what sometimes seems a dying breed. It's carnage or it's nothing as far as I'm concerned! I look forward to your future works and please know that it's all appreciated. ~ Grim "The Darkside is more powerful. I don't care what Yoda says."

I absolutely love this idea. It is right in line with the way that Beserk is set up for Carnage with charges. Gore is the very heart of the carnage marauder and the defining feature of the AC. This would allow the carnage marauder to do what he already has the ability to do just more reliably. Given the time cut gore sustained with the coming of 3.0 (Gore window cut to 3 seconds down from 4.5 seconds, when it was posited it would in fact be increased to 6 seconds from 4.5), this is by no means unbalancing or OP. The carnage marauder is nothing without the gore window to sustain his viability (as limited as many people already consider them). As a high end, eng-game progression raider, I stand firm in the conviction that the caranage marauder can be viable in the 60s OPs (even HM), albeit with some difficulty due to the melee unfriendly aspects they are heir too that we all know all to well. It isn't easy tho and it takes constant work and raid awareness and at times, admittedly, it is difficult to sustain. But these very same difficulties, and the willingness of a good raid group to take a chance on a marauder for HM 60s OPs has in and of itself brought my game up, but it doesn't always make it easy on them. The DPS is definitely there, as long as you can make those gore windows count. It is as fleeting as it is essential to the viability of the AC. There is nothing more frustrating than to hit that gore button and than half way through ravage to be forced to move to avoid the circle hells and movement debuffs that are so common in the end game OPs. But when ya hit it, when the stars align and you get it right, the DPS had the potential to soar. I do believe with a change like this suggestion coupled with the ability to channel ravage while moving would do a great deal to bring the carnage marauder much closer to where he or she needs to be to find their place and acceptance in progression raiding. Putting Predation on a timer and making us be able to use crippling slash a few extra feet away does nothing to put us on more even ground. Some say Predation is very useful, I can count on one hand how many times I've been asked to utilize it in lue of berserk. In certain specific instances, yes, it may help some in a particular situation, but that's the exception, at least with regard to pve. Some may disagree with me on that, to that I say well, it's a free country =] The mobility issues with marauders are well known, but just because you need to move doesn't mean you necessarily need to move far or fast. (You want to do neither in the circle hell that surrounds Bulo, that can be a liability to the group if anything.) If we could move when we had to, without having to throw our precious gore window and related attacks into the toilet the many times that we MUST move, you'd find the carnage marauder much more welcome into end game raiding. - I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to continue to play the carnage marauder that I have grown to love and known by. I can honestly say I am often surprised that I am as welcome to many groups as it appears that I am by the requests to join a raid. I'd like to think that I can be less of a liability to those kind people who welcome me despite the state of affairs of mdps in end game raiding. They deserve a greater asset than that for their willingness to have me. - The dps is there. Let us do it. What the hell else do we have to offer!. ----- DPS or bust. ~ I am Grim.

" Marauder Wielding two sabers and unmatched aggression, Sith trained as Marauders slice through enemy ranks, dealing death with merciless efficiency. Able to intuit precisely how to attack in order to maximize every strike, their adversaries become victims in the blink of an eye. Whether annihilating a squad of Republic troops or cutting down a single Jedi, the Marauder sees and exploits every weakness to exact the greatest toll. Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain and damage in the galaxy. " Your words, not ours. The very reason I choose the class in the first place. Let us do our jobs - Killing everything we see. We can serve no other purpose, nor would we want to. We just want to be Marauders again. ~ Grim 'Brawl.'

Here's what worked for me with this bug on Pirrell's Ambitions. Leave hanger, go down to main space port (exit the elevator and go past green "door" to actually be in the spaceport), click on Pirrell's Ambitions mission to bring up mission menu, than click reset, if the reset works the mission will update on your mission tracker and will say "Exit ship yada yada yada", I used Priority Transport: Personal Starship to get back into ship so i didn't have to walk thru the hanger area (You need to exit space port and go outside to Balmorra in order to use Priority Transport: Personal Starship) , once back in ship simply exit ship as usual and than the cut sceen kicked in and worked fine. Note before I did any of this i first went into space port area and reset the "The enemy of my enemy" mission as that had been suggested as a possible fix. It did reset but i went back up to hanger up the elevator, but nothing had changed. After this i did as described above. If when you try to reset in spaceport and it's still greyed out, go back up to hanger area and than come back down into spaceport and try again, it took me 2 times going into spaceport until the reset option was again available. **** Note, you cannot reset in hanger area or ship. Its greyed out. I could only reset when i went into the spaceport. Hope this helps. Good luck. P.S. Kill everything you see. Better safe than sorry =]