I totally disagree on this one. At least for sub-50 levels. Yes, on hard mode fp-s dpg can out-threat the tank pretty much, and even trash mob can do serious damage to dps. But on sub-50 sm fp-s ... if dps is getting serious damage, then he is doing something he should not, like: - pulling mob ahead of tank - killing elite mob first (i like to watch dps die on this one) while there are weak alive - using aoe on many strong - just generally ignoring kill order And yes, most sub-50 tanks are pretty newbies. Most of them wont do a good job tanking, so playing safe is good. 90% of sub-50 sm dps are _not_ killing weak to strong, and do stuff for fun that makes tank's job harder (like pushing mob around). So, my priority in sub-50 sm stays to keep aggro (and damage) from healer, that includes guarding the healer.

Bonus boss in cademimu is really annoying, especially for tank, especially for a not overgeared one. I usually just get comms, and leave it there.

I totally understand you. People tend to insult tank and heal all the time. I had this, when i was a newbie tank .. while my second run in manda raiders sm, i could not keep aggro from the boss (he carbonized me and dropped aggro every time i managed to use taunt on him). We didnt wipe, and I think only healer died (i am not sure), but a dps wanted to vote kick me, with reason "tank cannot taunt". I was like so furious, I didnt even wait for the votes, i quit. Heck, i was even insulted severely with my on a hammer station sm run (!!) that i suck at healing! Oh, yyes, i did really suck, but so are most beginners .. and believe me, i did try my best that time. And the worst is, that none of the other gruppies said anything ... so i just dropped that group, too. Those poor souls, that try to heal or tank, and (of course) fail for the first many times just to be additionally stomped to the ground by groupmates. Hell, as DPS you need to know like 2 rules up to .. well HM fp-s like "kill weak to strong" and "dont attack cc" and maybe "dont attack before tank", but thats all. As healer .. there is "dont fight just heal" and "start healing as soon as needed not when near death" .. and .. maybe "watch defubb and cleanse", but that is only for HM FP-s. Now, as tank you need to know everything. Boss mechanics, mob positions, explosive barrels or healer will have a tough job, and later you even wipe. Even with ops .. DPS get exact orders for all the time, so you can easily first time as DPS before dulfying it. And what if you fck up? Well, then some other DPS will interrupt/kill ads/kill snipers etc, cos there are many. If you fck up as tank, then its a wipe. I especially love those "smarties", who have a main lvl55 tank, and are just lvling a dps mara, who just tell you what to do, even if you dont ask, even if things go smooth and be prepared that they _will_ be very arrogant and pushy, if you dont do exactly the "way they do it". So Aryh, I wish you a good time playing this game!

Well, you can pretty much demand the dps to give up your loot. If he gives, you are happy. If not, threaten politely with ignore+kick, and if that fails too, ignore/vote kick, or leave the group as a last resort.

shoot dem dawn with galaktik stawr faitor!!

1. DPS on fleet are most probably AFK, and will most probably miss the message on /1. Non AFK DPS are out questing. 2. Everyone will know, that if a tank is seeking group on /1, are most probably of the alpha-holes, so may have greater chances with a gf tank. I will make some measurements later. So, the data. Time is measured with my (i)phone, measurement start before hitting gf button, or starting to type first message into chat window. I stop timer right after pushing "travel now". I will append more data as they come. I. Group via /1 (i will always go with gf if group is not ready in 10 minutes) Wed, 20 Nov 20:32 Progenitor: TIMEOUT (no healer found) II. Group via gf No data yet.

No breaking cc-s? No attack ahead of group? No wipes? Did he even .. kill weak to strong? These make him an above average dps even for lvl 55 hm fps.

He probably was, but you did interrupt all the time.

pls sign my suggestion here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6956299#post6956299

1: yes, there is the noise, but so faint, many miss it. (i updated suggestion) 2: if you are in queue far behind, you wont notice. If you are the next behind, you will get faster popup. 3: there were people suggesting 30-60 mins lockout. I want to stop the abuse, that tanks do to put dps to ignore after 30 sec wait time. I think even 5 mins could be sufficient.

Well, applying your logic to the case, if dps get 30 sec timeout, healers should get 20, and tanks should get 10.

I think the need-greed system is basically for improving your mmo-social-communication skills. You dont like what I need? Tell me. You want to need something that you shouldnt? You need to use the chat. It is a very good exercise to improve communications, so stubborn, selfish and ignorant people get filtered out to the ignored list by the time they come to operations. I always ask me on sm fps: do i want to go with this guy to ops? add to friends list! never want to see him again? ignore list! Imho filling up those lists is one of the main purposes in sm fps. So, why dont i need on gear with an enchantment i could use? Bcos (1) then i could practically need on _almost_anything_ making need/greed useless and (2) others will not be able to see if my need is rightful (nobody will thoroughly inspect your gear wrt enchantments). So not needing on these stuff will make others _trust_ in me, and maybe they will enjoy fp/operating with me next time. There is yet another aspect to this game which complicates things more: tank divas and emo healers. If i am with tank/healer toon OR (me and ninja are both dps), then: 1. If gruppie needed on stuff not mine nor his (regarding main stat) , i will make a friendly reminder not to ninja, and vote kick/ignore on second act 2. If the loot is mine and not his, needs and wins, I will demand the loot, and vote kick/ignore/quit group(if kick fails) if he doesnt give it up. If he gives it up, it is back to friendly reminder. Now for DPS, it is clearly unfavourable to put any tank/healer on ignore, so as dps I just make the friendly reminder, then ask friendly, if he won mine. Some tanks and healers are major donkey-holes in this game, so I use ignore on them as a last resort. So someone asked about mara/sent needing jugg/guard stuff and vice versa. Both may have a right to need other's stuff to some extent ... but ... if there is at least one jugg in the group, it is the safest for the mara to greed. If there are zero juggs/guards in the group, it is totally OK to need, but the best is to _ask_ beforehand. "can i need on this strength armor?" - sure, yes! just ask before needing )

Hey, bro, i totally understand if you got prostate cancer and cannot wait the 3 minutes. Anyway, i made a suggestion, pls sign http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=697938

Hey, I would like to make a suggestion related to group finder match popup. Related discussion is here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=696268 To sum up the problem as follows: 1: too much dps toons, long dps queue lines, long waiting times make dps go afk for (whatever reason), so do not notice or hear popup. 2: impatient tanks declining popup after 30 seconds (this is shorter than some loading times) and ignoring dps to get an even faster group match, resulting in bad gameplay experience for unaware dps players (even longer waiting times). I suggest the following: 1: group finder match popup should have a louder, sharper distinct noise (not like the faint one many seem to miss now), like warzone popup 2: "pause queue" option for players being on the queue for longer than 1 hour. (eg. can pause queue for 5 mins, repeatable for each 1h in queue). This will shorter wait times, if used properly (need not wait 2 min timeout) 3: group finder lockout for declining group match. ~10 mins should ensure, that it is not worth to abuse player position (like tank), and is still a bearable time, if declining for whatever other reason.

oh no. so as i got 3 tank toons, i do have the right to do what i want, even to be a crybaby. and yes, i did have to wait 3 whole minutes today!! because one of the dps was afk!! oh i was sooo furioos those whole 180 seconds of my lyfe!! the horror!! the boredom!! cry cry

There are no hard mode flashpoints, just ignorant and impatient groupies.

Last night's pug on topic: my lvl32 commando gets a popup, taral v dps(!!!) replacement (i am healer spec, and yes, i know its a deadly sin to do so, but...). So I join up, say hello, and see that several gold thingies charge at me and teammates are running like chicken. We try to down them, some of them die-respawn in the process (seemingly they dont even care), mobs eventually die. Okay, we have commando healer, me commando dps, shadow tank and vanguard dps. So, shadow tank wants to kill everything ... I asked them why ... how stupid i was, they told me that if i didnt enjoy killing stuff, why not just quit the game. Anyways, i dont really care, just hate wasting time ... So we get up to a boss kind of mob with 2 gold ads - guys do frontal assault, we wipe. I did notice that tank is not tanking (didnt use the extra shield buff), healer is not healing (using AP cells, throwing kolto bombs now and then, but dpsing most of the time), and vanguard is just using hammer shots and mortal volley on cooldown. I asked why we wiped ... now vanguard explains that shadows are ****** tanks, and tells me how he hates people like me, why not just enjoy killing stuff ... oh boy you go off to my ignore list. Anyways, i switch to support cell, and go on with healing. I tried to kick vanguard once for ninjaing, and he also tried to kick me for ... being a d.ck, both failed. I still wondered how far we get, so went on. We get up to the droid boss, it proves quite challenging, we wipe. Tank disconnects afterwards ... and that is game over. Oh, well.

oh, such ignorance! such rage! i think they should pit dps-es together on the imp side, and the two best should get the dps places in the fp. you could even watch it, so you dont actually die of boredom while waiting the 5 mins.

if you do multiple fps a day, for gf daily dont reject the low lvl. believe me, everyone would be grateful for a smooth run. you will still get full xp for prio mission and gf daily, and commendations. for second and further runs you can freely uncheck the fp you dont want to run. Yes, 1h is a bit overly punitive, maybe 10 mins would be a good sweet point, and more bearable if you just dont want to do that fp that pops up, and dont want to bother with alt+f4-ing I will be writing a post at the suggestions thread later this evening then.

Then i see no problem here. I will however take the time necessary to properly select need/greed on the loot, and equip it, if need be.

I like to have these kinds of dps around. They just take the responsibility from you. You dont need to heal them as healer, and dont need to take aggro from them as tank. I usually just say "dont heal dps" on group chat. If we wipe, it is still easy to have a friendly reminder, and if he pulls again, kick+ignore.

So, i did not understand how some tanks didnt accept popup right away. Now i do. I will make sure that i wait at least 60sec with my dps. Just remember, that after lvl55 dps will get much easier jobs getting into operations, and bad tanks will just run hm fp-s. So i dont mind getting on the ignore list of a ... well .. emotionally not so developed individual, like you. I have tank toons, and i can say, that even after waiting the 2 mins and receiving declines i rarely wait more than 10 mins to get a pug form. It is really just a minor annoyance to wait that 10 mins compared to DPS toons waiting for hours ... Still, the most annoying are tank divas, who feel themselves important, like these exemplars. Sadly, as dps you dont have the luxury to put these alpha-holes on ignore. The thing is, most of the time you _dont_need_ tanks to complete the fp (you can use a tank comp), you just need them for the popup. My recommendations are still: 1: popup noise 2: "pause queue" after 1h of waiting time _and_ 3: if tank declines the popup, he should get a lockout for 1h.

OP should measure runtime to toilet + small job + wash hands + dry hands + run back. No cheating, we dont wanna have stuff to get on keyboard. Try to make it in 30 seconds! Anyway, i think good dps is hard to find, and even worse when unnecessarily stressed. Two additions could help: 1: distinct sound for FP popup (like in WZ) 2: optional short (eg 5 miin) "out time" after each hour in the queue. (stay in queue, but if you are next, you let the next one in queue to go). this isbetter for group and the dps after you, no others get a disadvantage.

I do think the first boss is rather easy, because it is only challenging for the healer. DPS just go pew pew, tank slashies in tank stance, and eventually just keep in mind to avoid those suicide droia. So, for heal, i do totally agree that you should not do damage, only if you are 100% sure, that you will not need to be healing. I did have 2 kinds of healers on this boss, sorc and commando. For sorc you just spam shields. If health goes down, you spam shield and heal then. I only had some problem when tank was not stepping out of sweeping gunfire at last boss, so i ran out of force at the end. For commando you put the healing hammering shots on autofire on the tank. Even if you see max health, you do that. Heal if health goes significantly below 100%. Anyway, the most difficult part of hammerstation imho is the 3rd thrash mob with 2gold+2silver+2weak. The problem is, that here everyone must do their job properly, or someone can get down fast. DPS _must_ kill weak to strong. Tank _must_ properly get aggro, and healer must know his job, or people will be dying fast. This is the first encounter that punishes lowlevels for error, and eventually there will always be someone too impatient, too stubborn, that someone will die.

Why dont you just hover over your mouse and read the descriptions? Its "Force Breach".