So you have not done DPS tank so you how can say it is any good or not in Ranked DPS tank you have never tried it? You can throw any insult you like, but it doesn't take away from the fact you haven't not done it in PvP. I could make the same argument that you have asked me to do, but you would try foul. And this goals about how you change the standards of goals based on what you think is relative (even as far as being dishonest), yet here you are asking people to do thing you wouldn't do yourself. One thing I know for a fact about narcissist is that they tend to be cowards, never trying anything that would contradict their beliefs or they aren't skill enough to do themselves. So even then, DPS tanking was viable? So you were making it seems that DPS tanking wasn't because I was doing it. You realize DPS tanks and Defensive Geared tanks use the same spec? They get all the same strengths and weaknesses except Defensive geared tanks just take slightly longer to crack. With that being said, both classes generate the same amount of threat with their moves and I have really generate too much threat when doing classic and non-classics as well as FPs. Consider I went through Ravager and Temple of Sacrifice as a DPS tank on normal mode. But how does this prove my DPS tank is the worse thing throughout the overall game. You haven't address this and in fact, your last couple of statements shows that it is very viable. Because I DON'T CARE about what you do as I'm only relaying the same apathy you shown me, but also to mock your achievements because you're making this argument to be about you. You seem to think DPS tanks are non-existent. There is growing community of DPS tank in this game and you're writing them off as heretics and idiots, but you want us to acknowledge your achievements. And even when someone like my bends over backwards to shows I can do it, you disregard my achievements with the same apathy I am now show you. But most of all, how does your going through [insert quest] with your character build, disapprove my character through [insert quest] with my character and build? You seem to think it's all about you. For our thoughts on the class, opinions, advice, and new advice should the new advice get old. However, in the past couple of months, you've shown that you've made this to be about you and what you think of other people since you've been here. You've done nothing attack me at every chance you got and you've ruin every topic you've been in. When's the last time you've given advice without making sharky remarks or insults? How many people have apologize to after you pick fights me on their topics? LOL! When you asked me about my damage, did I note post picture of me beating up on a dummy? What was your response? Beat up on a dummy Gav Dragon so I can laugh at your dps. When you said DPS tanks are bad PvP and show you two pictures showing me killing 3 people in 4 v 4 and doing up to 700kish damage, you totally ignore it. When I beat you twice in PvP, you had excuse for it. Every time, I proved you wrong, you're change move the goal post to what you deem as worthy of your time. I don't deflect, but rather I realize there is no point in proving anything to you because you'll just write off as insignificant. A LESSON I LEARNED FROM YOU SO WHEN YOU START POSTING THESE MEASURING STICK STATEMENTS, I laugh at them and don't bother to watch them because it's your attempt in trying prove that it isn't small. Again, you show all the signs of a textbook narcissist. You've even gone as far as to create an internet in-group and you're trying to E-thug. Oh, and you've seen continue deflect from the question I ask you earlier. (Ironically, you keep accusing me of the very thing you do) And yet, the evidence of your DPS tanking is minimum at best and the counter arguments for it have supported the ideas the DPS tank can do well based on the statements above.

Oh god. Look out people. And again... So you've been through the entire game with DPS tank? I've asked you this in every topic and you never answer this. Ditto with Rank DPS tank.

See below. BTW, this forum is here for people to socialize about their thoughts, about said class, opinions, advice, and new advice should the content change. You seem to be more incline to make comments towards your fellow poster than actually help them as shown in several topics, you're more concern with insulting your fellow poster and dragging every poster's topic into the ground to throw insults while moving the goal post and shifting the burden of proof. :cool: I have done every single operation, pvp (which you should), and done all the main game content. Trying to exclude people because you don't agree with people something teenagers do in highschool. How old did you say you were again? Thanks for proving my point about your past posts that when something doesn't go your way. You either raise or drop the bar based on what is relative to you. When someone meets a goal, you raise the hard, but bar can't be raised any further, you drop the bar in an attempt to throw the argument out. Nevermind, that it does not CONTRADICT MY EARLIER STATEMENT, "Even if it doesn't do the other content, the fact it can do the early content makes DPS tank more viable Rage and Vengeance." You have yet to prove this statement wrong, but you hinging your statement on the current you deem worthy. (Content I'll probably get to in the coming days.)

1) Believe me, if it had super god mode, you have me do that. 2) ROFL! It stupid because it's a valid point as the main is full of content that helps you get to 60 in under a few hour without the XP event. So it's impossible to not out level the content. Hell, I did boarding party 2 level under the require level to get it on the level necessary to queue for it. I did Cadiemmu at 1 level under what was required. 3) Because you say so? That's part of the moving the goal post. When something doesn't meet YOUR STANDARDS, it considered not legit. 4) Do you understand fallacies are? This is combination of begging the question, confirmation bias, appeal to faith, appeal to populace, and Gambler conceit. How anyone who played EV would know the floor would dropped if they never seen a video or played the Operation to get this first information. This isn't common knowledge unless some form of prior knowledge. Again instead trying to insult, you have to realize that no one who is playing this the first time has the prior knowledge of SoA. This is an insult that is grasping for straws, which attempts to appeal to a crowd that has prior knowledge of that operations. (Basically you're speaking to like minded people who engaged in the same trollish behavior as yourself) 5) No according to you the content that is relative is the content relative you. (Confirmation bias and Moving the goal post)

1) Except you said "give him a few hours" and I did it in a few minutes so no. 2) Probably because I took a bit of time to skim through the post. Why I would suggest a DPS tank post when the man is clearly asking for a main tank gear? You act like you know me but you don't. You're just picking a childish fight. Another person trying to jump on the bandwagon. 3) Well...

Why don't you go do this content yourself as dps tank instead of lying. You haven't post anything show you do the content yourself other than PvP. And with that, my character has been to do twice the damage you did PvP as a dps tank. So instead of pretending to know anything about dps tank why not use the 12XP event to go through the content to get through the game. I'm doing it now as a SIth Juggernaut. I'm getting the same results as I did with my Jedi Guardian. Except my first operations was at level 50 when I did the Eternity Vault in 5 man team with no deaths until the final boss. (Due to the floor dropping) Even on Hard and Knightmare mode, you can still be heavily damage and killed by stuff 10 levels lower than you. Secondly, how are you going to bad mouth the game when the game has enough content to put you at level 60 prior to some of the most recently added content? Even before the XP event we are having now, my character was out leveling the content because he did every single quest, class quest, space mission, PvP, GSF, and Flashpoint. Not to mention, I'm one of those players who makes sure his gear is up to date by buying comms or crafting what he needs. It's ask now you're raising the bar by asking me to fly blind into the game content and being ill-geared or prepared for whatever I'm currently doing? How's that proving that dps tanks are worthless? Or is it you think I'm worthless? Again, moving the goal post is just grasping at straws. That's a not viable source since scrubs also come go into Ranked PvP or according to you the people I fought and beat on my first time as DPS tank were scrubs. You know any reason not to acknowledge that DPS tank is viable build, even in PvP. I don't do ranked PvP because everyone has a gameplan rather than just winging and making it work. (That and people rarely queue for it....I had to wait 3 hours for one match?) Team battles don't show how good you individual, it shows you shows how reliant you are on the next person. See above about moving the goal post. Even if I did content buttnaked with no lightsaber, you just move the goal post to say, I'd have to do in Nightmare mode. But you also get carried. You forgot I observed you in all your pvp fights, you require healing to keep you alive. How the hell are you going to accuse someone of being carried when you guilty of the same thing. Your post is literally the pot calling kettle black. The sad part about this is you don't even use the word, "carry" right. Carry means someone else had to do your job. DPS tanks are hybrids so they can choose to be a full dps, a full tank, or both. If you tanked, I would dps. If you dps, I would tank. So you blaming me for the other post absurd behavior (which you just admit to) getting him banned? It's like you can't even take responsibility. And you wonder why I laugh at you every PvP game we are in. You allow your arrogance blind you to the fact you are making a fool of yourself and living in denial. If they thought I was being trollish, they would have been me instead. I asked you time and time again. Why not just do us all a favor and leave the forum all the together instead of whining about how you don't someone else's game play? See above at the other statement why that is wrong as you proceed to move the goal post again and again. Moreover, you shift the blame of your friend on me when it was his own behavior that got him banned. (which admitted to his behavior being absurd) Yet, I'm the one out of touch?

1) Not only did you jump me from behind, but I was lagging, which is why I didn't move. You basically rewinding my screen. You had help with a DPS Sage. The reason you lost, you got tunnel vision and let your sage get work over before you jumped me because I didn't even you were there. After your sage fell, that's my teammates came to my rescue and worked you over. Had you help the sage early on, you would have beaten the both of us. I could tell you pissed off during the fight based on your irregular rotation and your character's movements. 2) I dps tanked as Rage Build and still can. I even dps tank as a vigilance just by switching to soresu form. This after 3.0 BTW. 3) I already know about that as I seen that post, but you've been against since I came here despite having gotten the build to work on my end. In addition, you've mode the goal post several times in past arguments. You (and others) went from saying this build is garbage to... - Solo Content can be done naked without any gear. To... - Flash points mean nothing until you do them on Hard Mode. To... - Solo cotent, Flash points, and Tactical FPs don't make up the cotent. To... - Classic Operations don't count unless you do them on Hard Mode. To... - Why don't you do the more recent Operation on nightmare mode. THAT'S MOVING THE GOALS POST and what you don't realize in your attempt to make DPS tanking out to be garbage, you failed because I met every challenge and beat it. (You made similar pvp claims) Moreover, the DPS tank did the majority of the content in the game with very little trouble. Even it couldn't do the other content, it still be far viable than Rage and Vengeance considering it can sub as a dps or a tank. You've been completely dishonest with everyone here and it shows when you lie and move the goal post because your underlining reason for doing it is because you have beef with me. If you so certain that this doesn't work WHY don't you try going through the game and operations with this? 3) He's probably just off for a few days because of his trolling and rude behavior. He came on the forums trying to pick a fight so my guess is the mods made a good choice. (unless you think you know better than the mode) He probably picks fight in other forum too. There were no erroneous claims were made considering I'm proof that this build works. Again, you're showing you are text book narcissist by claiming you know better than anyone else.

Um...he's never liked DPS tank build LOL! He's always it in the for the build so he isn't finally seeing the light. And I had focus fire of entire team when doing pylon game and manage to keep them long enough for it to blow. ROFL! However, wasn't this topic about PvE?

Oh, I thought i was PvE you were looking for. I would think PvP would be too different as I was heavy Shield/Absorb than Defense when I did main tank in PvP.

And yet, I'm playing a dps tank and making it through the game? Second go around might I add?

Did the entire game as Jedi Guardian DPS tank, including including Hard Mode Flashpoints, Operations, etc. This argument has been settled a long time ago and you're still making a big deal out of it. Not to mention, it was repeatedly said by your troll friends the all the content, including hard mode was utter trash. They seem to only deem worthy the content they were doing as a noteworthy. (Moving the goal post) When I noted, I did that content, they continue to move the goal post saying I do it in hard mode or nightmare. Moving the goal post means you're trying to find a reason to continue arguing something you can't prove is wrong or shouldn't be accept as a standard. Not that you have legit reason (which you don't), you don't want to acknowledge something you have no knowledge of or you're have an underlining reason (which I already pointed out) for changing the standard. Also you contradict your in the other topic So thanks for the help in prove dps tank can do anything.

I did Eternity Vault at level 50 and that was my first operation. We 5 man it by the way.

1) YOU JUST CONTRADICT YOUR OWN ARGUMENT. YOU NOTED HOW DPS TANKING DOESN'T WORK ONLY TO ADMIT THAT YOU JUST DPS TANK NiM EC. The whole point of proving something is wrong or not viable is by saying you fail to do something. Trying to appeal populace doesn't work in this same argument either considering what you achieved. It doesn't matter what they think consider what you did. In addition, if it was suppose to work a certain way, your dps tank would have not had a chance to make it through the operation so you killed your own argument in your narcissistic troll rage. Maybe if you spent less time trying to throw insults and be mind of your own post, you would be less likely to contradict yourself. 2) I guess that makes Grand bad because when I observe Grand and he dies when two or more people join any fight he is in. And let's not talk about how got killed in a 2 on 2. Also holding up to 6 people for nearly 20 seconds so the pylon can go off so we can win the match isn't exactly a sign of sucking.

1) Except I did Eternity Vault as dps tank and other classics as either a off-tank/main. Got pictures to prove it. 2) Except that doesn't happen either consider I took up to 6 players at once as a dps tank where as my Vigilance can barely take on 2.

1) That's a lie considering I use to dps tank. You're not squishy and take damage just fine even when you are being focused on. Secondly, you're confusing Vigilance/Vengeance gameplay with DPS tank last I check you were the one who require healer to get through most of your fights. 2) They don't duel well and this is from someone who played the spec on a regular basis. DPS tanks are good AOE burst damage specs. Which is why they do really good against groups of enemies, but horrible one on one with certain bosses PvE wise. Guardian Slash/Crushing Blow does 10k, Master Strike/Ravage does 8k to 12k, Force Sweep/Smash does 3k to 5k, Dispatch does 6k to 9k, and Force Scream/Blade Storm did 3k to 7k. Not to mention, why you lie when I have post plenty of proof in the past? Are you still angry I beat you in pvp. Quote.... 1) Please get off the bandwagon. Not only did I go through the game as Jedi Guardian with DPS gear, but I'm currently do it with my Sith Juggernaut. Did both Cadeimmu and Boarding Party in one night as a off-tank and main tank respectively. Maybe if you ACTUALLY *********** TRIED THE BUILD INSTEAD OF REHASHING THE SAME **** THE OTHER TROLLS POST YOU WOULDN'T LOOK STUPID. And quote... 3) Yes, you can dps tank in this game. I got pictures to prove that **** in case if you have doubt. And yes, you can dps and tank same time. STOP TALKING ABOUT **** YOU DON'T KNOW!!! Hell, I dps tank as a Vigilance, a Gunslinger, a Sniper just recently, and I watched a Commando tank the entire Athiss quest. SO FOR CHRISTSAKES, STOP TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THE **** THEY CAN DO WITH THEIR BUILDS. If he wants to play a pure tank or dps tank THAT'S HIS *********** BUSINESS. BUT DON'T SIT HERE AND SAY HE IS GOING TO DO BAD WHEN YOU'VE NEVER TRIED THE BUILD. THAT'S THE **** YOU WON'T TELL HIM IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE **** YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. FOR THE LAST *********** TIME, YOU AS WELL AS THE OTHER TROLLS NEED TO ACTUALLY TRY THIS BUILDS AND STOP **** ABOUT STUFF YOU DON'T KNOW. You guys are afraid to try new **** and you live in your own world, else you wouldn't be giving people bad *********** advice or telling them how to play their game. You live in a world of ignorance and so do your troll friends. Also seeing as you didn't have any advice for the post, proves my point that this is about you and seeing how you can come off as a jerk.

Answers you'll find here. http://dulfy.net/2014/12/11/swtor-3-0-defense-guardian-tanking-guide-by-artorias/ and a video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3OuJ_5DAUk

Yes, you can switch gear and sorry about your post. This happen any and every post these guys get in here because they don't respect anybody outside themselves. Else they would taken much care to not pick a fight and just simply post what they thought was right. (or at least given you advice instead of throwing insults) I don't blame you for not ranked tanking. I have ranked tank as a dps tank and won a match (and played several times as a vigilance and lost), but it is no different from Regular 4 v 4 as some of the rank teams will go into regular matches at level 60 since rank matches rarely queue. I like the idea of playing with inexperience players and trying to make it work.

OP if you are reading this. Pull up a chair beside me because this is going to get good. http://i.imgur.com/S6HAKVZ.gif 1) How your ego Grand? Considering I beat you twice in one game. However, you would be still be hear posting non-sense of stuff you haven't tried. GrandLordMeance: But I have... You made 400k and I have made 700k to 800k in one game so if you were posting your best effort forward, how the hell does a suppose sorry player like myself able to do more damage than you? Not mention, I dps tank operations. Yet, you somehow an expert when you've never played an entire game as DPS geared tank? ROFL! Even more laughable when people who also didn't try it agree with you. What's worse when other board member remark how they love this build, you have nothing to say until I say something. (Can you say butthurt?) 2) No, they haven't and most of the people who post the same stuff with you are the same elitist trolls I speak of. Other people are people like the poster above who jump on the bandwagon despite never having tried the build. I have played this build with PvE and PvP. I even went as far as to post picture and you still denied it BECAUSE YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONCEPT. You did the same **** with Vigilance, when I post the same **** you did, you were pissed off because beat you to punch. You've insult me several times despite posting similar status and attributes that you have post in many other post. You do this because you are narcissistic. 3) You're not open LOL! You've never support this build (or the concept of any other) even when proven wrong. You lost your temper several times, including in game when tried to fight me. You don't support anything except your OWN IDEAS. You're the textbook definition of a narcissist. At least I can admit when a build has flaws or if it work or not. You've never done in any of your post. Lastly, tell the OP how your opinion change from this build being garbage to being able to solo most of the game and being a decent PvP build? (Yes, that came out of your mouth)

PvP would be the same except he go with the other third tier suggestions since he isn't his focus isn't tanking. If he is doing ranked, he can gear as please. If he is doing ranked, whether he can dps tank or not, would be up to this team. This is why I suggested in #2, to have both tanking gear and dps tanking gear. So whether he is doing PvEs or PvP, he can play as he chooses. In addition, you're not a paper tank in PvP. Oh lord, I keep here this and my dps tank the entire time never had that problem. Nor do people tunnel you. ROFL!

PvE wise, you need... First Tier 1) Path Carver - Increase AOE damage using Sweeping Slash even further as you get an increase in damage with it under the Immortal spec. 2) Overwhelm - Keeps certain enemies immobilized when doing Ravage. Good if you lose aggro against certain enemies. 3) Unstoppable - Protects you from certain movement impairments, but not all of them. ** Payback - If you are the main tank or off-tank very often. If you are mainly dps then ignore this. You can switch out Overwhelm or Path Carver to get this. Second Tier 1) Sonic Wall - Is a must have and your bonus works with this. This allows you to reduce your friend's damage. This is extremely good if you and your team are about to get hit by a AOE. 2) Embolden Scream - Allows you to increase the speed of your friends using Chilling Scream. Good for speed runs. Third Tier 1) Intercessor - Reduce more damage and threat of those you are Intercepting. 2) Thrown Gauntlet - Allows you to use your Chilling Scream for free and reduces your Force Push. Combined with Embolden Scream, you and your friends can speed run mission/operations and over more ground. ** Through Passion, Through Power and Consuming Rage are good if you are the main tank often. Don't pick these if you are off-tanking or doing dps.

Here is your 2 options: 1) If you're teammates are understanding you can exist in DPS gear and either play the part of dps, tank, and off-tank. As a dps, you'll be in Shii-Cho form and do dps like any other dps. If you off-tank, you'll dps until unless you are require to take the heat off the main tank so he can be healed properly or if the tank falls in battle, you can substitute until he is revived. As a tank, you'll be able to tank certain mission, FPS, Tactical FPs, and Operations and priorities will be no different from a regular tank. 2) You're teammates want you as a tank for Operations and Hard Mode FPS so you should may need an outfit for tanking, but you can keep DPS gear for times they need to dps. DPS tanking is viable and it is good (as you found out yourself) despite the lies often said about it, but you can only exist as a DPS tank amongst those who don't have a problem with the way you are geared. So if you are going to tank DPS at level 60, then try to find a group who will accept you for your gameplay. I have dps tank every operations and tank/off-tanked in Knightmare mode operation in all the classic operation (I did it as a Vengeance, but my DPS tank would have done better) I have pictures to prove my off tanking as well. Now my advice for gearing when you reach level 60, you should invest in the Tank Spec Guardian Armoring so you can get the Tank bonuses with that armoring. You can still have Might Mods, but just make sure you using the Guardian Armoring with the TANK BONUS so you can still be affective while in the group. As to whether you should use the Shield or Focus, it doesn't really matter. However, it is better to have the Shield as Immortal Specs are more physical/melee base class than a force base class like the Rage or Vengeance spec. There is only two VERY GOOD SKILLS that are forced base skill for the Immortal Spec and that is Smash as well as Force Scream. (Actually 5, but 3 of those are CCs that do low damage) Lastly, when gearing as a dps tank from 33 and up, you should get mods that give STR/PWR and Enhancements that give CRI/SURGE. When you reach level 60, you should continue the formula, but make sure to attach PWR augmentations to your final gear. By the time you finish, you should have a 80% or greater Surge Percentage, a 25% or greater Critical Chance, and 1000 or Greater Power Rating. If done right, you should be hitting enemies for 4k to +10k. I use to think you needed to put everything in your Surge Rating, but after switching from Surge Augmentation to Power Augmentation, I found it help increase the damage done to opponents in PvP as well as PvE.

Because we don't want the kids being unable to play GSF because they would have to upgrade their computers.

Shii-Cho/Rage Good at killing single target enemies with Spike damage, but suffers from lack of DR and defense. This is a good overall leveling build as they have no trouble killing gold (strong) or gold/silver enemies. (champions) Soresu/Immortal If you gear them with Power/Surge and a little Critical, they are good at clearing crowds of grey (weak) to gold enemies (strong), but do poor against gold/silver enemies because they lack single target skills. Rage has 4 single target moves where Immortal only has three. What's worse is that the CC do nothing against gold/silver most of the time, no matter what your level is making it even harder to take on gold/silver enemies without a companion. Shien-Djem So/Vengeance By the time you get this, you can pretty beat anything regardless of the style, but it still worth mention that Shien-Djem So sucks as a level build even before they made the stance a level 41 ability. Like Rage, it lacks DR and Defense. However, like Rage it good at single target damage and it excels, but can do no where near it's damage UNLESS you are able to maintain a consist rotation (which is hard since this game is full of CCs) and it only does more damage in group battles such as Operations or Flashpoints that have 4 or more enemies per group. Because Vengeance users take damage so poorly, without a good tank companion in good gear or a friend to run with, you'll take more time to get stuff done than the other specs I just noted. So to simply put, Rage is the best spec for leveling with Immortal coming in second.

Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernaut Soretsu/Defense/Immortal Needs more moves that increase damage reduction or Defense. Allow for more damage reflecting opportunities or skills as well as increase chances to guardian leap. Shien/Vengeance/Vigilance This class doesn't need a buff. I can't tell you what they need more since they are clearly balanced. Shii-Cho Focus/Rage Make this class into a blend between defense and offensive because right now it's no different from Vengeance minus the DOTs. Instead of DOTs it has spike damage, but it is still a dps spec? Why not a hybrid spec.

I suggested sometime ago, super abilities similar to bosses such as Force Nova or throwing multiple force waves.