Actually with your exact numbers presented, you are gaining 0.1999 (or ~0.20) per point pf Will Power, and 0.2304 (or ~0.23) per point of power even while stimed, buffed and with the 6% from the madness tree. So, if we reversed this, you would gain 594.20 from Power ( up 78.5 from Will) and 156.12 from Will (Down 24.68 from Power) for a total gain of 53.82 making your bonus damage 1172.82. Now while this doesnt seem like much, your damaging abilities are based off a coefficient. This means each ability uses a seperate multiplier (For example your Static Barrier has a coefficient of 3.21 of Bonus healing. So the number is bonus is multiplied by the coefficient then divided by a static number, or in this case multiplied by ~0.17) In short, power provides more than Will Power. But, what we have to look at is how much crit you gain from main stat, and at what point does DR kick in for Main Stat to determine at which point is is more beneficial to stop stacking Will and start stacking Power. Until one of the theorycrafters (Not me, dont have the time nor the patients) shows us where this curve ends up, we are left guessing.

Veng for leveling for sure. At around Level 40-45 you can switch rage if you like.

And let me suggest you leave the forums if you dont think anyone should makes suggestions. /signed

I like the way to spec flows now over all. Vicious Throw is a good filler as well as Ravage. I feel tanky, but not immune to damage (as I did 1.7). Veng has decent burst with excellent sustained damage. Crit is unfortunately still important to use to burst (Impale + scream is far better than Shatter + Impale + Scream), but that isnt to much of an issue. With 150 crit rating I have a 27% force crit (77% with 1 stack of savagery), and I feel that is enough for the most part. Gripes: PvP - There isnt enough burst, you must rely on procs to burst. Now I prefer this system over all because it makes burst "situational" and not something that can be done all the time. However this is balanced against the auto-crit specs, and therefore "situational" burst isnt near as good. But how do we remedy this? There is only one change I see being needed, and that is to modify Savagery. 2 stacks, each stack adding 50% crit, however it should only proc from Shatter and Impale and also affect Vicious Throw as well as Scream. I get Vicious Throw procs from ravage thanks to Destroyer, which means I can predict when Im going to need to start in on Impale to get my Savagery buffed Vicious Throw. That one talent change would make a world of difference while trying to burst down either an unguarded healer (which are hard as hell to solo now sometimes), or a tank. The second thing I have an issue with is up-time on a target. Deadly Reprisal needs a re work. I made a thread a while ago about suggestions for Veng Uptime which the Devs responded to, and Im very happy about that. Im adding one more here, and linking the original thread. [2.0] [suggestion] Our only slow uses 1/6th of our resource. Ahem... Booo! Now for the new suggestion, which is likely easier, and accomplishes everything in that thread that i wanted: Rework Deadly Reprisal. Add to it either a 30% speed buff, or a 50% slow while targets are affected by our bleeds. That one change will make Veng jugs able to keep up with all the increased movement now in PvP. PvE - I would honestly like to see Seething Hatred reworked for the better. As is, it is a horrible talent and comes no where close to addressing the biggest concern I find with Veng Jug in PvE, and that is the rage cost of our aggro dump. So to fix this, I suggest reworking Seathing Hatred in this manner: Allow Saber Throw to give stacks of [insert new ability name here that replaces Seething Hatred] up to two stacks. Each stack discounts the cost of of Enraged Defense by one rage.This would allow us, after the initial dump, to use Enraged defense at a discounted rage cost every 50 seconds, or about when it is off CD. Honestly, this is a change i would very much like to see, it applies almost exclusively to PvE (Due to the set bonus), could be viable in PvP, and doesnt interrupt our priority to pop enrage, when we could possibly save it for a time when we really need it. Thanks for reading all, lets get some constructive thoughts below. [EDIT] I forgot to mention my specs I use currently. PvP PvE And as a bonus, here is a screen of a Hyper Gate I just did before posting this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/B4kst4br/Screenshot_2013-04-13_15_09_02_667074_zpsd54103d2.jpg

So far my employed tactics are to LoS untill they leave cover, run up on one not paying attention and force push, or pray they dont target me. They have gotten smart. the engi sniper are utilizing that roll very well. From what I see they wil KB you until you get to them, stun you with plasma probe and roll away. Force push is our biggest counter along with LoS, however is they have entrench up, Force push is null. Lastly, wait for either thier amsuh or cull and pop saber reflect fir some lulz. I crit a sniper yesterday for 8.5k then 7k as he used ambush followed by a takedown on my saber reflect.

TL;DR: If you dont agree with me, Ill insult you. [insert a bunch of information everyone knows or is in another thread]. L2P noob. ^ I think I just summed that up for you. Your welcome! ...I honestly couldnt resist lol.

The biggest thing they need to do is make overload root standard for Sorcs. This solves all issues period. I would gladly run full corruption if overload rooted standard.

The troll is strong with you. Hard to have a competent discussion with someone so uncompetent as yourself. Yes, one bubble will save you, but you would know that if you played the class competitively Go ahead and spit out all the theorycraft you want, reality is a cold hard *****.

Speed pluys overload (unrooted) isnt enough to kite anyone in the game in 2.0 long enough to get your next heal off. Bubble mez plus the occasional guard is required to stay alive. But I dont expect you to understand this unfortunately.

For PvP tank I would suggest http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/?build=023222100212100202100000000000000312302120020031010200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 For tanky DPS I would suggest http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/?build=023222100210100200000000000000000312302120020031210203000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 These are speculative builds for 2.0

Rage is still the best burst DPS spec in the game, however Veng will be making a come back. Its all based on play style. Rage is easy to play and does great burst, Veng has a muchhigh skill cap but can put out some serious point target DPS and is very survivable.

You can make all the big bold statements you like, you can insult me all you like, but you cant change fact. Pure HPS is nice in in an ideal situation, and I agree that a full corruption sorc and a Medic OP will out heal a hybid corruption anyday of the week given the ideal situation and while not being focused. However, in a real environment (that thing called rateds), while under pressure a hybrid corruption will heal for more and offer more utility. You say flash bang is better than bubble mez, I disagree. You can flash bang once a minute, it fills resolve, and if broken early; there goes your 8 second mez for the next minute. I can bubble mez four times a minute, it doesnt fill resolve (opening the possibility of a hard stun without filling resolve), absorbs damage (approx 5k worth in non BiS gear), and when used with speed and overload provides great kiting abilities and survivability while under pressure. Yes, OPs get the new roll and better energy management in 2.0, but speed goes farther, and uses no resource. I played both extensively on the PTS, and by no means am I the best OP healer or the best sorc healer, however Sorc has better staying power, better synergy with every tank, and better survivability than an OP. We are still heavily lacking in a few things, but bubble > HoT anyday, Unnatural Preservation > Surgical Probe and Innervate > Kolto Injection. Hell even Dark Heal > Kolto Infusion, even with the change to KI, and to top it off Dark Infussion + Recklessness equates to some heavy healing when you need it. In my opinion a sorc plus OP combo is the best. Rolling HoTs on someone while they are bubbled is the greatest "set it and forget it" heal combo in the game. Lastly, I dont care what kind of HPS you can hit against scrub teams, or in ideal situations, because most of the time you wont have them. Back on topic of the thread though: While corruption puts out more HPS, but due to survivability issues and the need to dedicate a tank, I foresee hybrib bubble mez as the lead for rateds. I know, loosing out on that delicious Innervate tick reduction blows, but being able to give the middle finger a leaper or to a stealther makes me laugh every time.

Actually, Sorc in Bubble mex spec can easily hang with an OP. How do I know? Played both extesively on PTS. I ran Bubble mezz and full corruption. Healed on average the same in both spec. Why? Bubble mez saved my life quite often, and allowed me to heal longer before dieing, Revivification was situation at best, and in the moments where there is enough healing, but not enough deeps, I could throw out some dots and lighting to greater effect than full corruption. Not to mention the final build hasnt been presented, and wont until the 9th. Not that Bioware is really gonna change anything, but they may. Bubble mez will be required for rateds because you cant dedicate a tank to babysitting a single healer all the time. If you do, youre gimping your team.

You do loose damage moving to soresu. You loose the 12% from Shien, and you loose an aditional 5% in Soresu, for a total of 17% just by switching stances. As far as rage, you loose rage as well since both stances generate rage while being attacked, but Shien discouts rage cost as well. A dummy is the best static way to determine DPS output, hence why people parse on them to determine DPS output.

Strength for damage, endurance for hp, or shield/absorb to round out secondary stats. All good choices.

2.0 PvP relics are the same as the pve ones, as in you have a random chance for more power or more healing. Gone are the static power relics.

Yes, you can still click it off your bar

I like this, and presents some new balancing options. I would suggest the juggling of abilities still, moving Seething Hatred tied to Shien in Unstoppable's place, and tieing the slow on bleeds to it instead of Pooled Hatred. In PvE I see Pooled Hatred as a small bonus when you happen to get controlled in a boss fight, but mostly worthless. But I feel Pooled Hated still needs a long overdue rework, as even in PvP it makes a difference only every now and then (I have hit 5k+ crits off Impale with it, but rarely). Im not so sure about the accuracy though. I use it on my PvP Jug, mostly as a filler and so that I can stack more power/crit/surge on my gear in place of that 3% accuracy without hitting the DR near as fast, which will be key I would say in 2.0 for Veng.

I can confirm that the resolve was also increased, a poor move on Biowares part IMO. The bubble needs its coefficient increased drastically (since smash is now hitting for 10.5k) The stun from Backlash needs to be a hard stun OR The stun from Backlash needs to be a mez but have its resolve decreased OR The stun from Backlash needs to be applied to allies as well, but make it a 1.5 second mez and maintain the resolve from PTS ( old bubble stun is a hard stun building 300 out of 1000 resolve, this last option should apply a 450 resolve)

Defense is worthless in 2.0 if I remember correctly from a post in the PTS. Shield/Absorb are king for the mitigation stats.

I notice the 5% loss in soresu personally. I also forgot about the rage build and cost in Shien, thank you for bringing that up.

You cant judge a passive damage increase by the eb and flow of a war zone. Go parse the two forms on your ship dumby for 5 min+. As well, if you specced into Single Saber mastery, your increase will be more than jusr 6%, it should be 9% (I believe, correctme if Im wrong, it may be a total of 12%, dont have the tree open infront of me)

I understand a tank picking up Shien for Unstoppable is a big no no, however is restricts Full Veng specced Jugs from switching to Soresu in certain situations because we loose our iconic ability, hence the tree rework that I presented. I know it a little more work for the Devs than they may want to do, but rewarding an underplayed spec with a little more utility is a good trade off for the time spent I believe. As well, a root tied to Saber throw would only be good in my opinon if the range on saber throw were reduced to 0m to 30m, but that would effectively negate the PvE set bonus, which would then have to be reworked. Otherwise it is too situational since we are a 4m range class. But that is my opinion. Im not saying its a bad idea, I quite like it, but the extra work that would have to be put in by the Dev team to make it more than situationally useful might be a little more than they are willing. Lets start with a small buff first (either slow attached to bleeds or passive speed boost as well as the tree rework) and go from there.

While I see your point about PvE jugs (the slow tied to bleeds being a filler), you can easily "skip" which ever talent happens to be in Unstoppable place and still progress up the tree, without negatively affecting PvE. Example is this build here, which brings you to Impale by skipping Unstoppable: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000302302121020130010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 Now, most people will spend those points into Unstoppable as well as everything already taken. So, in PvE you subtract 2 points from T3, but later add them in at T6 for a net loss of 0 points. Also, mentioned in the shuffle of the talent tree is to untie Unstoppable to Shien, but put it so high Hybrids wont benefit. This means Unstoppable is beneficial in PvE still as it was, but allows a PvP Veng Jug to swtich stances and retain the tree's iconic ability. As well, moving the abilities around as my suggestion states actually net a -2 point loss for PvP Veng Jufs, but it is a price I will pay for slows on bleed, or passive speed boost tied to Shien. I appreciate the feedback everyone! If I have missed something, or misunderstood it, please let me know.

While unexpected, the response is appreciated. Over all when it comes to class balance, nerfs arent necessarily always the option, most times a small buff to an underpowered class or spec will solve most issues. I feel your pain as to the Sorc. My main is a Sorc PvP healer, and while I am saving final judgement for the drop of 2.0, I was unimpressed with the PTS. However they do see our feedback, even if they dont respond. As to rage, I find it un-rewarding, and sub par in objective play. Veng is an under rated spec, that when played well will kill a target faster than rage (this assumes a skilled opposing player). The small tweaks presented above by myself and Andrew_Past would put Veng inline to earn a rated spot.