Haha fair enough, we still wouldn't agree on what they should do about it though. Cheers.

To be fair it took a huge back and forth to get at some sensible feedback. Even assuming this point of them messing it up for everyone is completely true, taking a hardcore stance in some sort of mental play to say removing skills is terrible and my point of view is 'objective' is hardly the best approach. Had some of the points in this thread been made instead I would have been with it from the beginning BUT both bioware and the forum majority were misleading about what was going on.

Yeah I get it, my bad. I wasn't trying to white knight, I was just hoping for a combat revamp that would make me enjoy it more, seems like they are ruining it for everyone.

yeah I'm with you, I wasn't being sarcastic. It's almost unbelievable they would go this route.

So you're saying they are making dumb decisions within their intended plan, thus making no one happy. Well good point sir, I guess if they stick to that then no one will play the game anymore.

My UI is highly customized my dude, every skill is keybound, I have a rzer orbweaver and logitech g600 mouse, I can handle stuff just fine. Again you're making assumptions like most people here that a different preference means stupidity or ignorance. you're just mad I don't have the same opinion as you and you want desperately for it to be invalid so there will be no risk to your preference. Your assumptions about costs to spruce up combat are incorrect, other MMOs do it all the time. But maybe you're right, previous reworks have been very hit and miss for bioware. Hate the most recent vanguard, the removal of mid range and channeled powers, lame.

I've gamed for decades, I've played dozens of MMOs, not to mention almost every game of note released on PC. Swtor is old and bloated, for someone who evolves with the times it just doesn't cut it combat wise. If you have to have 30 buttons, then FFXIV does that muuuuch better, swtor is essentially world of warcraft 8 years ago. I udnerstand some don't like change and they are very attached to their gameplay and like I've said that's perfectly valid. I only wanted to communicate that not every potential SWTOR player comes from that same place and so the majority of the feedback starts off with the wrong premise. Same goes for your answers, they ignore my point and where I'm coming from. Right now if I played PTS I think I'd enjoy loadouts but find the rotations boring, Bioware will have to introduce far more change or they will lose everyone. I'll test it when we have more classes ready and maybe we will discuss then but based on your attitude I suspect it would devolve then as well.

This thread is addressed to you and yours, not the devs. If I manage to get on the PTS and test I would put my feedback in the relevant thread.

Read the title and the OP, this is addressed to you and yours, not the Devs. My intent was to explain something to you, some of us are in favor of this design direction. Understanding that would help you. Instead of picking up little nuggets and burning strawmen.

It would be suspicious/dumb of a plant to admit they hadn't tried the changes. I didn't come here to comment on specific changes, I've mentioned several times that I am excited about the design intent behind the changes and wanted to point out that many are. The overwhelming feedback here is that the intent is dumb and they are just taking away buttons and how could they because it's so obviously objectively stupid to do so. Ironically if some people here would internalize my comments it would help them make better arguments and actually convince devs to leave their skills in, it's about constructive feedback vs ranting/raging.

Hi, I'm not arguing that they should take your ability away, I'm arguing that some players don't feel the same way as the forum majority and that it's subjective vs objective on both sides. So we don't disagree and you're arguing with a straw man. To give proper feedback to the devs it should be with the understanding that players have different preferences and just because a majority of forum posters feel one way it does not make that objective or even a true majority opinion. Your example is easily solved anyway, freezing force could be a choice competing against a smaller passive boost. You get your button, I get a smaller passive advantage. My OP is not about removing skills just to make the game fun for me, it's explaining that I prefer fewer buttons in general - there are many ways to achieve that. The responses to this thread just proves my point, the game is full of close minded people that assume people with different preferences are noobs or stupid or even Bioware plants.

You didn't actually read my post, the whole premise is people have different preferences, once you take that message in then of course when I say 'fun' it's in the context of the original premise which recognizes it's subjective. I only even went down that road because people kept trying to argue that I was wrong for having my preference so I'm simply explaining it further. I don't play the game RIGHT NOW, but have over a 1000 hours in it most likely. Played first when it came out then many long periods of time after. Got all classes maxed which I guess everyone does but still.

My argument is people have different preferences, you haven't countered that, instead you've had a different argument. I've also not at all 'been caught' not wanting to learn the game. I curved mythic nyalotha before I quit wow.

I don't care what you think is valid, objectively it's as valid as your opinion. What do certain players like and how much money are they sinking into the game, simple. And again you go with the 'rest of us' you have no idea how many players want to streamline this mess, the forums are vastly biased by some hardcore dinosaurs. Again dinosaur opinions are valid too, but there are other beasts on this planet too.

I'm the OP and you're in my thread talking about how I guess someone else is a plant. I guess I assumed wrong then. Wild Star did not fail due to the combat system, and even if it did it doesn't take away from the fact that there were players that enjoyed the gameplay style. Never talked about copying it anyway, just stated it was the sort of combat I enjoyed. That was my point about FFXIV, there are more abilities than swtor in most cases, certainly more that are needed to execute your job properly. It's not a game where you ca just 'not use some abilities' I brought it up to counter the claim that I can't handle buttons. I enjoy that game, they pull the nr of abilities off, swtor def does not.