Ventessel
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Posts posted by Ventessel
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Well I think the "General" part was more a product of the GAR's programming/conditioning to obey Jedi. But I agree that it doesn't make sense to just hand over extremely high military positions to members of your government's religious sect purely based on the fact they are a member of that sect even if it is a quasi-military organization.
General Etain Tur-Mukan was pretty confused about the whole "General" thing, the Republic Commando series asks questions like this (one of the reasons I loved it).
I mean, on the scale of Sidious's master plan it makes sense... But it doesn't make sense that everyone went along with it.
That might explain things in the context of the Clone Wars, but it seems like Jedi have been placed in positions of military authority throughout Republic history. How much of this is the writers of Star Wars materiel inherently favoring force users over average people? I don't know.
To a large extent, the Jedi are the Super Heroes of the Star Wars universe. I think that the mythos and nature of the Jedi/Sith abilities appeals to us as an audience, but in a sense I think that we also see "normal" people in the galaxy relegated to the status of secondary actors in the galaxy. It's almost as though only Force users have the ability to accomplish significant things. Anyone who exhibits extraordinary ability in a certain field tends to get it explained away as having untapped Force potential. Does anyone else get that sense?
As far as I can tell it Jedi ARE warriors, in times of peace, peace isnt every where. They essentially become multiple things acting as both Diplomats and occassionally as the Swat team/ PI/ Detectives. They are upholders of the peace, upholders of the law. And act in that fashion.In a place with no formal Military the people with the most combat experience are easily the ones you turn to.
Other then that they are trained and prepared for Military combat through out all ages to begin with in addition to having all the skills neccisary to both fight, investigate and negotiate treaties and surrenders.
But the Republic DOES have a formal military. It's in decay during the latter days of the Republic, but back in the times of the Jedi Civil War it was far more vibrant.
Otherwise, I agree with you. It seems that the primary responsibility of the Jedi is to train for war.
But why are they so confused and conflicted on this matter? They are constantly bemoaning the fact that war always leads to the dark side, and that their lightsabers are tools not weapons, etc.
This strikes me as silly. Obviously lightsabers are weapons! Every Jedi carries one, and trains extensively in combat techniques. I feel like it's time for the Jedi to own up and accept the fact that they're basically the Republic's emergency defense force/trump card. Yes, they perform other duties, but those duties are generally performed in the ABSENCE of warfare/conflict.
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Some of my fondest memories of college were 2 v 2 matches of Battlefront 2!
I am itching to see more of this game, I'm confident that DICE will deliver an awesome experience. One thing that bothered me about some Star Wars shooters was that they didn't always have that "Star Wars feel", but it looks like they're getting down into the nitty gritty details.
Keep hitting us with those updates, Beni!
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If you're finding SWTOR hard, then maybe the game isn't for you. As for you not knowing your class abilities, even if nothing had changed since you left, you would still have no clue of what each thing does. It's called being out of practice.
Nonsense, I still remembered the exact sequence of buttons that I pushed in each and every fight to trigger my abilities in the order that worked best. Combat is fairly routine against the legions of mooks. The problem was that all my skills had been reset and many of them changed so I had to learn a new sequence of buttons to push each time I entered combat, and didn't have the benefit of slowly leveling up to organically learn my character's abilities.
I simply take issue with the fact that native wildlife and what appear to be bandits are capable of going toe to toe with my character. It's absurd that every forty yards or so is a life threatening monster or gang of super-powered thugs. If the planets were really that dangerous, no one would be dumb enough to try and live there.
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I agree. Even though I'm a new player I am surprised that almost every single NPC/monster outside of towns is bent on killing you. It seems too 'convenient' that there happens to be all these aggressive gangs and separatists and god knows what else waiting to kill anything that moves. How do they know that you're not one of them, or a civilian?
To me, it detracts from the realism of Star Wars, if that's possible.
Heck, how are there even any civilians at all?
I'm a high-powered Sith Lord with a face eating monstrosity of a bodyguard following me around and I still get massacred by random animals and street thugs from time to time... all the normal civilians in the galaxy wouldn't live long enough to pick up groceries!
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I hadn't played this game in over a year, but recently renewed my subscription because I vaguely remembered enjoying some parts of this game.
I wanted to finish up my Sith Inquisitor's storyline, build my Legacy a little, and maybe start a new character and explore some of the other stories.
But NO! All the skills appear to have been reworked, so I'll need to redesign my character's combat abilities (actually quite tricky at higher levels) and then I just wanted to advance the storyline a little but was forced to wade through legions of mooks and incredibly aggressive wildlife to get anything done...
The fact is that the game just felt like work. Repetitive and annoying.
Mass Effect had a "narrative" mode where the combat was partially glossed over and the difficulty set way down. It was good for when you just wanted to see how things unfolded and enjoy the ROLE-PLAYING aspect of the RPG. Can they make that mode for SWTOR? Then I might be able to enjoy playing a powerful Sith Lord who is conquering the galaxy without being bored to tears having to murder stray dogs on Taris.
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An elite league of 6 force users, sounds fun.
At least with the lesser strengthed force users there's massive levels of variety.
Maybe move the champions from the standard league into the elite league?
It pays to be a winner.
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Well, we're already doing it with Palpatine, Yoda, Cadeus, Marek, Thrawn etc.
Why stop at people?
Sounds like you just need an "elite league" and a "weaklings who didn't make the first round draft" league.
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Question: What would happen if a Phase III Dark Trooper managed to replace its jet pack with a shield generator? *Say one that would fit on a light/medium vehicle* Lose its mobility for increased troll level of survivability...* Or of course the Galactic Empire could just use hacks like it usually does and make a device that can work as a jetpack or a shield generator, depending on what they need. If they need to move, shut off generator and switch it to jetpack mode, land switch it to shields...* Don't dismiss it, you know as well as I that the GE would do something as trolltastic as that if they were given the chance, and the Dark Trooper project had not been shut down.
I love it!
I've always thought that well trained and well equipped heavy troopers could be devastating. Star Wars seems to have a strange predilection towards light infantry, whereas with the technology available I would expect powered armor and highly mobile shock troops to be the dominant offensive force in an infantry engagement.
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Just off the top of my head (I'll look through my sources when I have time).
The Jedi decided to protect the Republic when it started to expand near and past Ossus, recognizing it as the center of civilization.
Was there ever a formal agreement?
From what I see in the PT and TCW, it seems that the Jedi generally report to the chancellor's office. They operate independently but also accept missions from him (not the Senate, from what I've seen).
The Jedi councils seem to govern the Jedi internally, and occasionally handle outside disputes. I'm really unclear on how they formally relate to the Republic government.
And then there's still the question of why the Republic military generally defers to the Jedi during wartime, appointing them as generals, etc.
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So yeah, pretty OP.
Or just dang good.
Something deep inside me recoils at the idea of disallowing a competitor because they are just better than everyone else. Call me overly egalitarian.
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Yes.
The Vong ships in general slaughtered the ships of the normal Galactic powers, only ones who made it through with relative ease were the Mon Cala and even that was a push.
Most vong ships never fell in an open battle, it was extreme tactical ingenuity or flat out battle strategy that saved the commanders.
Miiid Ro'iks, the standard ships that were basically ISD's, could feed off dieing vessels and use them as a huge power boost or to patch their own hulls.
Hell, there was a creature inside every Miiid Ro'ik that SWALLOWED SHIPS AND PERSONNEL.
Edit: Also, don't let me forget that each and every Vong version of a starfighter could create mini black holes that worked as shields, and disrupted enemy shields on any vessels in close proximity, that drew entire missiles and blasters into a singularity and negated them
And yet, despite these tremendous advantages, the galactic natives did find ways to mitigate those threats and eventually defeat the Vong. In open combat, they're very very strong. However, they do have many limiting philosophies and cultural quirks which make them less than perfectly efficient slaughter machines.
I'm not going to get too involved in this Kaggath (time constraints, mainly) but I would like to chime in and speak out against disallowing a whole faction's warships just because they're really good. I think that eliminating them would reduce the variety of the factions, and make for a less interesting fight.
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Really you cant add 1+1 without getting lost in the way?
Jedi seek peace and in times of peace they seek inner peace and help others too
What does that mean, though?
Peace and Justice is linked to Action, hence why they take militia, medics or any other role when in conflicts.I had a friend who majored in Peace & Justice... he currently works at a coffee shop. Peace and Justice is a fairly nebulous aim.
They at as Healers or even advisors.Yes, military advisors quite often. And Jedi Healers are slightly less common than Jedi Generals, pilots, and warriors.
Jedi communicate with the force, hence why most galaxy respects them because the force is a weel known subject for an educated citizen of the Republic.And Yes, I would trust a Jedi.
I don't believe that is true. Throughout most Star Wars media, the common citizen tends to react with suspicion or confusion when dealing with Jedi because the Jedi are an inherently introverted society. They raise their members from childhood, take a dim view of close ties to outsiders, and wield a powerful energy that they themselves only partially understand.
Jedi excel at been mediators hence why the resolve most crisis without violence, when Sith aren't involved.As for Naboo crisis: Palpatine was involved.
For Revan Dantooine mediation is exactly what Jedi do in their spare time.
Frequently, it seems that when Jedi get involved, things escalate to violence even more quickly. This is due either to people's fearful reactions to Jedi (they are renowned as warriors, after all) or because the Sith gravitate towards interference in these scenarios.
So is it really that practical to involve the Jedi in those types of delicate diplomatic mediation? It seems that a well-trained, non-Force using arbiter would get better results most of the time. Especially if he could always hint at playing the Republic trump card: "If we can't find peaceful resolution... I may need to involve the Jedi. And their lightsabers."
Here's a question geared mostly for Aurbere, since he's the resident guru on SW history.
Do the Jedi have a mission statement? Some kind of clearly defined set of objectives? Is there a document or treaty, any agreement really, that outlines their relationship with the Republic?
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You will probably never find a Revan Respect Thread even close to the size of this one. You can use this whenever you wish to debate in a thread regarding Revan. All credit goes to user DarthAnt66 of comicvine and KMC forums for the creation of this thread:
http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/revan-respect-thread/95278/
I am most pleased with this. You can bet that link is getting bookmarked!
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Really?
How about an Hour of you and me in 1 v1 with real weapons till death, I prefer this to what you propose.
An hour??? Are you an endurance runner?
My legal counsel told me not to smack talk on the internet, so I don't get to have any more fun with this conversation.
EDIT: Since my original comment upset you enough to ask for a deathmatch, I would like to apologize for it.
Obviously, I was only joking. I would never condone the slaughter of innocent Ewoks purely for the sake of entertainment. That's just sick.
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LOL......and then Disney spends $130mil to make the EPIC stand alone movie "Star Wars-Gungans -vs- Ewoks" starring The newest Jedi....Jar Jar!
I'd pay good money to watch Gungans and Ewoks kill each other for two hours. You can't go wrong with that plotline.
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Just thought I'd point out that the writer for this movie has many rants posted online about how much he despises the special editions and the prequels oh and he was once quoted as saying 'The EU is bad fan fiction that got published by some god awful miracle'.
Yeh what a GREAT choice LucasFilm.
Most of the EU is, I have to admit "bad fan fiction". Read some of the old Star Wars novels that weren't written by Michael Stackpole and try not to cringe. Read some of the new ones, heck, there's a little bit of good and a whole lot of bad in there.
I'm excited for some Avenger's-style movie franchise management from Disney. New Star Wars film every summer for five years? I'll take it!
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That was hilarious!
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Every scenario in the history of forever? This makes up like 10% of galactic history lol.
Your not taking into account the vast periods of peace the Jedi experience between these conflicts. What about after the Ruusan Reformation when the Sith were believed to be extinct? A mindset that pervaded for one thousands years. What were they doing then? Preserving civilization, peace and justice of course.
Slight literary license, haha. But during the periods of peace... what do the Jedi do? Seriously. Did they legitimately spend 1,000 years just mediating disputes between planetary governments and organizations?
If the Jedi are not inherently a military organization... why does the Republic turn over command of fleets and armies to them by default? In the Clone Wars, the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil war, etc. the Republic military essentially makes Jedi into automatic generals and admirals to command their forces.
I find this extremely odd if the Jedi had the primary directive of preserving peace and justice. What qualifies them to be military leaders? Why would the even WANT to accept that role anyways?
That is what all Jedi related activities come back to. For example what exactly has helping innocents got to do with guarding against the Sith and backing up the firepower of the Senate? Which they do on a daily basis? Very little.It seems to me that the Jedi spend far more time providing support for Republic military actions (be it against rebels, pirates, Dark Jedi, or foreign military forces) than they do... helping people. I don't see any arm of the Jedi dedicated to building houses, or feeding the poor. So what do they do aside from kill people and mediate disputes?
And finally, I'd much rather trust a Jedi - an impartial, genuine individual who can see through deception, wants nothing more than to uphold peace and justice, and has spent his hold life training to effectively be a hero, than some dodgy senator with goodness knows how many ulterior motives and conflicting interests who may or may not be corrupt and definitely isn't impartial. And of course with great power, comes great responsibility. That's practically in the Jedi code.P.S. I am of course referring to diplomatic disputes, as far as I'm aware Jedi don't have roles within the judicial system, however by protecting and assisting the Republic they support said system.
This is a matter of perspective.
YOU, as a Star Wars fan who has seen the majority of the Star Wars universe through the eyes of Jedi or those closely allied with them, would trust a Jedi.
The average galactic citizen? They know VERY little about the Jedi. They're strange, secretive monks who wield a mysterious power which allows them to perform crazy feats of athleticism and mind control. Sometimes, they decide to be evil and take over the galaxy and thousands of people die in the ensuing turmoil.
Would you want THAT guy mediating your disputes?
I'm thinking of two primary examples of Jedi mediation, feel free to contribute other specific examples.
First is the beginning of Phantom Menace. Trade dispute between Naboo and the Federation... which somehow resulted in an invasion??? We'll pretend that movie made sense somehow and just take it as fact that Jedi are sent to resolve those types of situations.
Second example is in KotOR on Dantooine when Revan/Player-Character is called upon to help resolve cases involving various settlers and farmers who have grievances with each other.
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Big words for someone so small, Jedi goal is peace and justice which align with Republic goals most of the time, that doesnt mean they are married in stone like you "think".
Affiliation means your affiliated to someone, not that cant affiliate with anyone else, the sith on the other hand are definetly married to the darkside hence their wars on Jedi.
Easy, there.
Let's not make this a flame war over whether the Jedi should be aligned with the Republic.
I was more interested in exploring what is expected of the Jedi during times of peace, and whether those expectations matched what was seen throughout Star Wars history (and if it is practical).
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It seems to me that the Jedi really exist for two reasons:
1) To guard against the Sith (who were originally Jedi, so... yeah.)
2) To serve as backup firepower for the Republic Senate.
For example, let's consider every scenario in the history of forever.
-Invaders threaten the Republic
-Republic military gets slapped around
-Jedi step in and beef up the Republic forces, acting as Generals, pilots, special operatives, and front line combatants. (Except when they have a hissy fit and split the order down the middle, ala Mandalorian Wars)
This seems to be the norm, rather than the exception. All the other activities of the Jedi seem to relate back to these two objectives.
Hunting for Sith artifacts? They're trying to make sure people don't learn about the Force and use it for things they don't like.
Mediating disputes? Sounds good, but in practice it seems to be sketchy. For starters, what legal authority do Jedi possess? We so rarely see them in this role. Furthermore, how are they making judgements? If they're sensing their feelings and trying to discern the truthfulness of a situation... is that evidence permitted in court?
Mace Windu says that they fight for Justice because it is the bedrock of peaceful mediation (I agree with him) but when you introduce pseudo telepathic warriors with the ability to influence the minds of others... doesn't that carry a hefty risk of subverting the very legal system they sought to uphold?
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1. What determines how powerful a Jedi is, is their potential in The Force. Simple and straight forward really, The Force as it's been hinted at and shown...is everywhere and in everything(which yes...this was spoken of in the OT too folks), so yes it can do pretty much whatever just as long as said Force User doesn't overdo it and kills them self trying to accomplish something that they cannot do. What limits a Force User, would be their mortal bodies, their knowledge and potential, eventually they will reach to a point in their potential where they hit that wall of sorts and can go no further.
Sure, there's raw power with the Force, but the question I was getting at is more "What is the goal of a Jedi?"
Is it to become as strong as possible in the Force? What is the measurement that Jedi themselves use? Obviously we deliberate over strength in the Force, skill with a lightsaber, etc. but what is it that actually matters to the Jedi?
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I'll respond to this for now.
The Jedi Path defines Sentinels, Guardians, and Consulars. So they do exist.
Sure, it's there in the manual so to speak.... but are there actually any of these Jedi who mattered? It seems like ultimately, any Jedi of renown (i.e. sat on the council at some point) was a warrior. Think of any movie-era Jedi, or a prominent Jedi from games, novels, etc. They're all highly proficient combatants who dabble in philosophy when they're not fighting Sith or other baddies.
I find it very odd that the Jedi appear to be in denial of the fact that their most important role is fighting. They appear to spend most of their lives training and preparing for it.
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It's been awhile since I logged in and checked these forums (alas, the burdens of reality...)
I noticed that the ongoing debates in "who's Force is bigger" are still raging healthily, and it prompted me to wonder:
"What is the measure of a Force-User?"
Obviously, this is an evolving question. Initially, we had the Original Trilogy and its vague, mysterious Jedi (guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy). Then we moved on to learn through the EU that the Jedi and Sith had waged a war since the dawn of time, and essentially defined the face of the Star Wars universe at every step of the game. Then came the Prequel Trilogy, and we were introduced to some aspects of Jedi philosophy and general behavior.
There are also numerous novels, comics, and video games which all provide a practically infinite variation of themes and interpretations of the Jedi Order, the Sith, and the Force.
So the question I pose here is two fold:
Firstly, what makes someone strong in the Force? And how does that affect them?
(From what I have seen, most authors have blurred it into a nearly infinite magical energy that can accomplish anything and everything... in the wisdom of the forums, is there a consensus on how the Force operates?)
Second, what determines the measure of a Jedi?
(Originally, there were apparently just "Jedi Guardians": warriors who defended the Republic... or maybe the galaxy, depending on who you ask. So what is the mission of the Jedi? Is it just to destroy the Sith? Or are they sworn to protect the Republic? There are supposedly great Jedi scholars, etc. but ultimately it seems that the only real abilities of a Jedi that matter are fighting prowess and skill with a lightsaber.)
Ok, third question here -- what's the deal with lightsabers?
Obi-Wan Kenobi loved the darn things ("A more elegant weapon from a civilized era" ... "This weapon is your LIFE.") and yet many Jedi throughout the films/EU seem to disdain the idea that a Jedi is first and foremost a WARRIOR. But you can't ignore the fact that each and every Jedi carries perhaps the single most powerful handheld weapon in Star Wars and trains extensively in its use. And yet they are pacifists? Sometimes? Unless the Sith are around?
As for the "Jedi Orders" (i.e. Sentinels, Guardians, Consulars, etc.) I don't see any evidence for their existence. From the films and closely related materiel (i.e. Clone Wars) it appears that ALL Jedi are expected to act as Guardians (occasionally acting as arbiters in disputes, or as diplomats... but always prepared to step in forcefully --pardon the pun
)What are your thoughts, oh Children of the Internet?
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The two were dueling at an impass, neither of them were able to outdo the other. It wasn't until the window bit, where Sidious was thrown back(thanks to the ledge, and Windu drawing on the fear coming from Anakin who was coming in, thus being able to overpower Palpatine.)
Then moving over to the window bit..
Now here...there is the word FEAR that is brought up, Palpatine then stops his speed and grips the ledge to keep from falling.
Ok so we got it covered, they were dueling at an impass. Then to the window, that is where Sidious made his move(the part about gripping on the ledge) and where Mace overpowered him by using the fear that was coming from Anakin.
Now moving on...Sidious could have killed Windu with his lighting..
Now here this makes sense, because even though in the novel he doesn't state the line unlike in the movie, as soon as Anakin cut off Windu's hand...Palpatine goes from..
"I...I'm weak...I can't..."
to
"POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!"
Which suggests, that the lighting wasn't harming Sidious at all. He was just merely faking to show Anakin that Mace was the evil one, and he was helpless to stop him.
If going by the novel, Palpatine just gets back up on his feet(like he wasn't weak) and blasts Windu away.
Honestly, those excerpts from the novel sound like they were written by a moron. It simply makes no sense for them to form a "superconducting loop" or for there to be no "possibility of fatigue". That's just pointless and meaningless drivel, the author seems to just be blustering.
So was Mace able to beat Palpatine in a duel? Yes, Was it under his own power? No.What does that even mean, "under his own power"? Of course it was under his own power, HE DID IT.
I just want to sit back and enjoy the story...
in Story and Lore
Posted
I'm not objecting to the hacking and slaying... I would expect nothing less from a game that gives me a lightsaber!
It's just having to hack and slash meaningless minions that I'd rather do without. The trailers and hype building up the game promoted the "cinematic" feel quite a bit, and while the game certainly has those moments they are only after the monotonous slog of punching through legions of meatbags.