You're lack of elaborating fails you sir. Vanilla WoW copied EQ, yet allowed players to travel the world much faster than you could in EQ. Copying a game and expanding or changing one or two little things works all the time, in music, movies and games. I'd say WoW came out at the right time, as well as already had a fan base their to support the game which is the only reason why the game succeeded. Most the people on this forum, including you, want something new but your not sure what. You want something new but you want the typical stuff to already be shiny with very little bugs the second you open up and press play. Games have reinvented the battle system, expanded on world bosses, changed the way stories are told to us, given us a more personalized story, and yet it's all "failed" I wasn't aware that on WoW you could get on a gryphon and shoot down ships and and other gryphon riders. I wasn't aware that each character had their own story line for even 10% of the game (as someone else quoted) People complain that their isnt enough community... Yet in Rift you have world events in which people are grouping up to take down rifts and world bosses! And if you want a totally new experience, go check out gw2! Find another way to call it WoW too Im sure... I am a fanboy, damn right! But at least I know what I want, I enjoy the story lines. I enjoy the content and the way its delivered to me. But most of you are all followers, someone who had what they wanted in a mmo and left it when everyone else did so you'd be on the next bandwagon. Most of you probably have an mmo that you'd enjoy very much right now, but instead you're here complaining that swtor doesn't have it.. silly rabbits

I really enjoy the fact that we have our own apprentice through the story, I'd like to see that expanded. In regard to this Ashara would work in this way as she could become our apprentice and it'd be very interesting to see her grow to the dark side. As most masters do, I'd say we should use her for our own gain. Gathering powerful artifacts and showing her the strength of the dark side through them. we'd still need to some quests in the world, killing aliens and running errands. I don't see too much of a way around that part.. But quests to gain allegiance with moffs and other darths would be more interesting than "I need you to do this for the empire or else..." it should be instead "If you help out the planet of _____ during their crisis I might bend my will to side with you at the next council meeting" But what I think would really make the story for ALL classes more interesting and fun is to see how our choices have effected the world. For example, you have a couple chances to help or not help other people and they either die, live, hate or love you afterwards.. but I want to see that effect in a grand scheme of things.

@Kalfear - I agree with a lot of what you said, and what you said is basically the golden rules of any business. Give the customers plenty of options (such as having a house, giving us personalization and more goals) and make the product intriguing (if it gets boring too fast, food, music, movies, games - then customers wont enjoy it) However, I think F2P is still the way to go, as in a must have. It's like the above mentioned "give the customers options" it's a great idea especially for your more moderate players. This is to say the basic idea of f2p (buying content by content) not to include things that can make the game f2w of course..

First off, I'm openly admitting that I have never played a f2p game before. I've read a lot, done a lot of research since the announcement of swtor, but no actual experience. Though I have played some of the games such as EQ2, LOTR, Aion, and DDO.. I never played them during the f2p changes. Not of choice, just of life changes (just got out veteran, didnt have the time or internet capabilities to play when f2p was being added) Now that you know a bit about me, and you can openly use my background to harass and troll me, here's why I'm here. I may not have experience in f2p games, but many of the arguments, or lack of arguments for why "f2p will ruin swtor" make little to no sense to me. I ask that if you post in here, to think about what you say and actually make a constructive argument. 1) content vs f2p: As I'm posting this, there is a thread on the top about Leagues of Legends and it's f2p system. People are replying that it's not balanced well. This point I actually get. It use to be that there was some reward for grinding out something for a great reward. When f2p offers a store that lets you skip that grind to have a better character, then that reward is taken away with the thirst for real cash to earn better stats, or other gimmick items. On the contrary however, though it's been a mixed opinion as it goes for DDO and LOTR... Most of the replies about these games focus on the content, that it's either repetitive or isn't there. Usually for DDO especially I hear that they release a lot of new content, but it's a carbon copy of the last content release, thus boring. To this argument I ask, then why are you complaining about the f2p? It has nothing to do with the content other than it can entice devs to make poor choices to please the higher ups as far as a quick finance gain. In the end though, better content will still win in either f2p or p2p model as it's more likely to keep people coming back. 2) Pace of content vs New concept content: This argument goes to the people who are arguing that f2p creates a game with carbon copies of the old content already released, but ALSO want content released at a regular pace. It's just an unjust whine. New concepts, stories, graphics all take time. I'm not sure who here is creative in a hobby or their profession, but it takes time to create a great work of art. In this regard, I'd be surprised if the new f2p content had new and awesome stuff in it, but us as players cant logically ask for both, can we? 3) f2p in other games: People keep on bringing up how f2p hasn't worked for such and such game. The way I see it, the f2p system is just another option for players to pay for what they play how they want to play. I can see the arguments that are mostly opinionated that "EA wont care about you, they'll sell p2w items if they want to" after all we live in American and big business has never cared about us. But again, this has nothing to do with f2p itself. It seems like the over all concept of f2p is pretty amazing to me, especially to those of us who play casually. However, I do see that companies can use it as a tool to get money quickly. Yet again, if the companies goal is to make money, they want a good product to stay as long as it can. When results show that most other games with f2w items only last for so long before losing a large number of their sub and p2w base players, then they end up losing on money. 4) The last argument: f2p and b2p are still pretty new concepts and ideas. They really have not been around that long, and there is still much room for them to evolve. I enjoy reading the posts that state their opinion is an opinion, it's the posts that state a declaration of fact before it's even happened that irks me. On both sides of the coin, if you think f2p will work or not, you can not know for sure. Most these arguments use trends from other games, declaring them a win or fail either way. The fact is, it's a trend and like most business models such as investors, they look at trends but are still taking a bet. You can say that this will fail because f2p ruined such and such and such and such game, but this early in the game it's still to hard to say. The chances are that your opinion either way could be wrong, you could be quitting swtor in a few months or coming back.

They unintentionally already admitted this. There are some things we wont know, like some people who have said it's bs that the companion will get released before the actual good content. That part could just mean that they've worked longer on the story and content behind the attack bot, or it could just simply be that there is less to that content than the rest of it. But as far as if they held back this content? They've already openly admitted that it's a lot of work to transition from a pay to play to a free to play system. If you read into that with a little bit of logic you know that this means they had to be thinking of this for months at least. Another example is that they've admitted they've reconstructed much of the staff in order to focus on releasing content at a faster pace. You can imagine that researching and studying on f2p systems, deciding what system (or elements of systems) to use, and reorganizing your staff would take more than a few weeks even. Reorganizing the staff; again.. Imagine if you were lets say a food server... even if you go from applebees to chiles, you'll have to learn some new stuff, get situated in your new place of work, ect. In other words reorganizing the staff also means that content cant be worked on as hard or fast. So in conclusion, if you're a businessman and you know that just going to f2p would cause some delays in the release of content... who wouldn't hold it back till the launch of f2p? However, on the other side of the coin, you as a businessman want this new content to be the best it possibly can. You know you're going to have skeptics of the f2p system, so waiting on it can be a good thing. If the content is surprisingly good then the chances the people who quit from this f2p system might come back just to see what all the fuss is about. edit: The first part is just an obvious fact of life to me, you can bash me on that part.. the second "flip side of the coin" is just how I would run things. If I were EA I might even break my promise and hold back some content a few weeks more just to ensure it's amazing after seeing all the lost subs and complaints.

You're contradicting yourself. If a player quits and states the reason as being the subscription fee, or the lack of new content.. BOTH would endorse ea/bw to move to a f2p system. Here's how it works... People come back, people leave. Some change to f2p, some keep their sub.. either way wont matter much. The results that f2p is looking for is to use the money from the new shop, along with the sub money to increase content. Regardless if this system fails or not, the few months will see content released at a faster pace than lately. Thus giving those players who "quit because 15$ a month wasnt worth waiting for new content" no reason to leave, or at least not that reason to leave. After the first few months pass, the revenue will either increase or decrease obviously. Also obviously, this will be largely objectified based on the content they release and how good it is. If they see increased revenue, I wont swear, but the likely hood is that the store will remain mostly the same as it is from launch, with new items that are similar to the ones already there (if it aint broke, dont fix it) if revenue drops then gimmick items (+stats, guaranteed craft stuff, ect) will probably be added. In either circumstance, the system still works to release more content at a faster pace.. Of course tho, if the game dies out and the money isnt there to staff enough people, the pace can still stop.

Which is why I rebuttal with a comment like... there is no way to know for sure how this will work out till months after its release. People play MMO's depending on content above all else. The PvP has to be fun, the PvE has to be challenging but balanced and fun as well. Quests and new zones have to bring fresh ideas to the board along with fresh graphics, both gear and environment wise. In the end the f2p system will have nothing to do with this game failing. f2p systems that have failed, only fail because of the lack of content or failure at bringing new ideas into the new content, they see their revenue not increasing, or decreasing so they usually add gimmick items in the stores. Even then though, the idea of adding the gimmick items is solely on the devs, not the f2p system itself. It's the devs and upper management who say "We'd rather not try hard, we'd rather make it easy to get money"

First off the only thing that can truly kill this game or any mmo is content. If they released revolutionary content that the public loved to play, people would still endure a f2w style game. Second, f2p is a fairly new concept still. Even among the f2p games out there, the styles are very similar. To say "swtor will fail now" or "swtor will go f2w" or anything similar is pretty retarded. A couple of companies try some different ftp models and fail, and that's your basis for your argument? There isn't enough EVIDENCE in the first place to make this claim. It would take many new f2p formats to come to this conclusion, it would take the f2p formats evolving multiple times. f2p is not black and white, there are WAY too many variables to make any such claims. This isn't to say that swtor will succeed, just saying that there is no way to tell one way or another over a system that's fairly new and still being researched and studied. Third. I have no reason to believe anything that comes out of EA, Bioware, McDonalds, Haliburtons or the local small business computer store down the street. If it's your job to make money, then I won't believe you when you're selling me something. Let's be realistic though, if you enjoy playing an MMO and want to continue playing, what are your options? WoW - Pandarian just looks so boring, was boring when I played the beta.. Either way, it's still going strong and depending on what you care about in an MMO MIGHT still be a viable solution. Rift - Less populated than swtor last time I checked a few months ago.. Doubt they've gained many more, but they might with some new content releases and free to play for returning customers for a few weeks.. But the over all game flopped when content never became interesting to most.. (I loved the rift content tho) Aion - F2P, so you cant go there if thats why you're leaving DDO - Same LTRO - Same GW2 - Same EQ2 - Same Sure Im missing some, but the point is, you're choices are limited. The way I see it, they might fail.. the current trend would say they will.. but Im gonna put my chances and money into the game that I enjoy the most out of the lists of mmorpgs and give it a shot

First off this isn't to the people who say they feel EA can't do a f2p system right. It's not to the people who feel that f2p will bring a community of ******* that they'd rather not be around. This isn't to anyone whose opinion on f2p is admittedly suggestive. This is to the people who say it WILL fail, or WILL work. Obviously the majority think that f2p will fail, the most common reason has to do with a trend from past f2p MMOs. The fact is simple though, you can't say for sure if something will work or not over a trend. You can describe the chances it will work or wont work over a trend, like stock brokers or investors, using trends as a judgement into where to put your money is a good way to do business. But it's still very often a gamble, there is still never a guarantee if a trend will warrant success or failure. Furthermore, the examples of f2p systems is very limited, the concept is still pretty new, your examples of f2p systems is so limited that there is in no way a sure fail or success by comparing them to these games. The actual content of the game has nothing to do with the system they use to receive money. The trend might say that f2p games push content out faster to get the money rather than working on the content and giving the players an amazing experience with each big patch. But the fact is, devs and management decided to push things out faster. In the end great content will still be the only thing that can save the game, not f2p.. I'd say 3-4 months after the f2p system is instated, one of two things will happen. Either the people who quit will come running back because because they're curious about good content they heard about. 2, the people who stayed will wish they left either cuz the content is no better or worse, of the f2p system turns into a f2w system.. But there is no way to be able to tell either which way until it happens.

1. Most people are arguing (one way or the other) over a trend of past f2p games. Which does make sense, it's how most investors and stock brokers get paid. However, it is also a huge gamble especially when the concept of f2p examples is pretty limited. What I mean is that your arguments, no matter how you feel is pointless, and asking for links or examples or proof that a f2p game will or will not work is pointless. The fact is that no one will truly know how this will work in the end until probably several months after the release. It really depends on how EA treats this system, and the game itself afterwards. People who say they don't trust EA to deliver a good game after this comes to be has an excellent point. They're not arguing that it will or wont work, they're stating how they feel. But to say it will or wont work is just gambling. 2. The system in which EA gets paid for their game and the game itself has very little to do with each other. Again, we can see trends through other f2p games, but the fact is, if you for example think that f2p has ruined content on another game, the devs and higher ups made the choice to push content out too fast to get money. They still had the option to deliver better content. Someone wrote earlier that there was two ways to get more subs, Create a better game or make it f2p, and that f2p was just the easy way. I HOPE they see that they can get subs from both, by creating better and better content as well as the f2p system. 3. I'm in no way saying the nay sayers are wrong, or the ones who think this will work is wrong. I think there are trends with f2p games and that most people would be smart to base their beliefs as far as the future of swtor on these trends. But there is no way anyone on this forum, this post, or anywhere else that can say for sure it will or wont work.

It's easy to tell if it's video lag, or internet lag.. if his fps is dropping and latency stays the same its going to be video lag. Has nothing to do with his internet. Here's just the honest truth.. Everything in that rig says it should be able to play the game with no problems. The most likely reason it's lagging is probably due to either user error or over heating or a mix of both. Laptops are not engineered to play games, they never will be. Think of your processor for example, the more things you do on desktop, the more it works, the more it gets heated, then it eventually slows down. Some people put huge cooling rigs in there desktops just to prevent this wear and tear on it and other components in a desktop. But your laptop does the exact same thing and makes it worse, it works the processor and other components and the cramps all that heat in a tiny little area so that it can only damage itself more quickly. Your video card is perfect, but if it gets too hot it will slow down. Your processor is good, but if it gets to hot it will slow down. You have about 2-4 gb more ram than you need, but it's still slow down if its hot. It really is that simple, and should make perfect sense with any sense of how things work. Heat it almost always bad, other than the use of actually making electricity it's never a good thing.. A guitar can bend in heat, bridges expand in heat.. just like water, it damages most anything you can think of.. that's why engineers come up with ideas to get around it.. that's why all the pcb boards you find in computers are nearly fireproof.. Heat = bad, and I have no clue why they make laptops with awesome specs that will virtually never run at its full potential. Like the post above that said something about "over heating isn't a problem".. yes it is, even if you dont feel it.. it'll be there, it'll kill your laptop.

Where the hell did the comparing mc'd and delmonicos come from? You're talking about a lot more variables in that comparison than just quality, such as money.. which is kind of a big deal. I've played or at least tried out a lot of mmorpgs.. I dont really agree with this "fluff" stuff, but I can see where you're all coming from.. But look at how games have progressed, and how changes have been made slowly but surely in all, failed or succesful, mmorpgs.. Everyone keeps talking about wow and lotr.. First off with WoW, one of the only real things that bliz did to gain so many everquest members to there game.. gryphons.. Seriously, killed the boring travel time in half. Other than that, how much fluff do they really have? Not a lot, and vanilla wow was deffinitely nothing compared to what wow is today. The fluff is nice in lotr, and I have no argument with most of what was said.. Its just not really that important to me. I enjoy the story and voice over in swtor.. to me that's fluff that I really like. But you can look at other games.. like conan which had a great concept around the fighting style... rift which had a great world event system (something many players of wow have been missing) and obviously they've all died, or in the process of dying.. It's not about fluff, its about giving the customer what they want these days.. if its fluff that the majority want, then swtor should look into creating new cool ideas to get the fluff.. but no.. the game is not failing my any standards but retarded ones. Yes, the player count does matter.. It pays BW, and them getting paid lets them make more updates, better customer service, ect ect.. So if you were to look at the best mmorpgs, you could say that the player count always correlates between the two. People only have so much patience, but its not like we go into mmorpgs expecting them to be perfect right away, and most people tend to give it time.. the more people that give it time, the better chance it has to be successful..