Sorry, I play republic now so VG = Vanguard. I would say yes, but you can't look at meters as a tank. When I play my tank Guardian, I concentrate on three things. How many deaths my team suffered and my protection. Fewer deaths due to slows by the Guardian aoe slow plus more damage all around thanks to aoe armor reduction = greater win chance. I don't get objectives because Guard prohibits you from being able to cap effectively. Do you use your damage reduction and oil slick regularly to help your team out? Remember Flame burst and Flame sweep reduce damage to your target. So Guard plus taunt plus flame burst reduction = weak hitter. Do you rotate your guard to focused targets? Do you use grapple to peel? These are the keys of a tank. My guild has a philosophy that a tank is a waste as a defender of a node because he essentially has a guard that isn't used.

No one knows how to completely close a topic faster than an egotistical troll. You will never get what you want to see mate, because absolutely no one will want to post anything you start or comment on. You turn every comment into a war. You attack people because they don't agree with you 100 percent. If someone were to post a better record than yours - you would claim he was carried. If he had more damage than you, than you would claim it's because no one wanted to kill him. If he had more kills, objective points, protection points, damage, and personally destroyed your pt 3 times, you would claim the tooth fairy came down and blocked your view and that it's because his team was so dangerous he was the last focused. No matter what anyone says, you will find an excuse, reason, and or troll way to attack them. This is why I am the only normal PT poster who answers you. They understand what I am just now understanding, you are a lost cause as is your server. Thanks for trolling, it has opened my eyes to how badly I can get off topic. You remind me of several quotes I once read. "It is okay to be ignorant in some areas, but some people abuse the privilege." "The ugly and the stupid have the best of it in this world. They can sit at their ease and gape at the play. If they know nothing of victory, they are at least spared the knowledge of defeat." -Oscar Wilde “The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.” ― Stephen Hawking I will no longer get into these debates with you. You have yet to provide any valuable insight into any discussion outside of personal attacks on myself and complete misinformation. You might be a good pyro player, but you are seriously lacking on the other two trees. I have spent countless hours playing the three specs, and have found all 3 to be extremely viable and perform well in their expected roles. I don't like the tank play, but that's solely personal playstyle. I prefer AP because it fits the way I like to play. I don't like RNG or waiting on the cd of RS. Those who have read these forums know that when I am wrong I readily admit it. When I see something I don't like, I will argue and debate it, but I am a fair guy. Varicite can attest that there are times I go overboard when debating, but the truth remains you have brought zero to this conversation, and I became less of a man by responding to you. For this I apologize to the pt community.

I would recommend 2 pc Eliminator + 2pc Super Commando for the 3 seconds extra shield. Trust me when I say this. It's the single best combo out there. 3 seconds of shield makes you feel like you can live through anything. You lose a bit of damage on rail shot, but you gain 3 seconds of 25 percent damage reduction.

FT is always worth using regardless of spec if there are more than 2 people in one location. Outside of Death from above it's amazing. Every PT should use it on doors and cluster areas when they can. Even Pyro's use it to hit multiple targets.

I would go medic gear personally the stats are better for you. I heal in my bm enforcer gear, but the big heals are really long without Alacrity.

I didn't do much on my scoundrel today as my guild had a few pre-50's they wanted me to pvp with so I was on my guardian tank. I figure I should learn to play the class I have the most trouble with. I did get my daily done which is awesome, but after playing multiple other classes the length of time before your biggest attack, and the fact that all of your attacks are really lack luster until that big hit bugs me. I was comparing it to the Tactics Vanguard, but it's not that way because the Vanguard hits hard all the time than hits you with pft which only hits slightly harder as all his attacks except with a slow. The DF scoundrel essentially is 12-15 seconds of dot damage and small hits followed by a giant slam of damage. I enjoy the play style. I am going to switch to the Utility Belt spec and see how that holds up in solo queues. My main reason for switching is my guild isn't ready for rated yet, and I want to do my daily pve flashpoints and if I am a healer it's faster. The hybrid can heal the dailies with a good tank.

Tank plus dps = not really a great idea. I would go with 31 pt tank build. And just use your guy as a battering ram. VG tanks are epic ball carriers.

My post was in reference to Dardack asking about the breakdown of spreadsheet dps. Neither the Maverick (Bushwacker, Terminal Velocity) or Norse are designed for PVE purposes. I did not mean to include pve into the conversation I was replying to a question about dps output. And HO has it's places in pve as well. I use it often enough to break cc's and ignore knockbacks. I wonder if it would work on the boss fights in EV. I know it works on the pvp one. Finally, I am not trying to rain on your parade, but all three posts and the original designer of the build all used HO (it is the key reason for the trip into Tactics). The links are broken. Read the threads by Agooz and Exphyrl, they both stated that HO is the key and CTG this left them with 2 points either for PFT (which they chose not to take) or 1 point in ctc. The links to the builds in the old threads are broken because Torhead did some funky changing of the trees and it has broken every link to show incomplete builds. This is the reason I stated, you cannot rename a build that's already been named. The only difference between your build and the others is PFT vs CGC and 1 point in the improved Railshot damage. PFT while nice is not gamebreaking enough to completely rename a build that has a 2 point difference. In Exphyrl's, he actually took 1 point in pft. and so did Agooz once 1.2 launched. Look, I wholeheartedly think you brought a good discussion to the table about the value of PFT over CGC, but the build is the same. I love new thoughts, but this is the 4th forum thread in the last two months showing "new" builds that is your exact build with 1 or 2 points in different locations. Keep the discussion on going as Agooz and Exphyrl have moved on for the most part.

If this is the case based on your playstyle, and desire have you tried the Utility Belt Spec, I think you would really feel better with this one. I made some minor changes dropping Blaster Whip bonus since you rarely go inside and taking two points in Black Market Mods and Flash Powder. It gives you great healing potential constant uptime on upper hand and you still get some decent burst with Wounding shots. It's a range strafing run in to 10m for your Wounding bursts. The energy is a bit daunting, but as long as you keep Pug up, you won't have issues.

No, it's too big a loss. Tanks aren't a bad shape. You just have to get used to not leading in damage. I play a tank on my Guardian, and when I break 120k I get excited. However it takes 2-3 guys to kill me, while my guys farm their team.

That's a pretty good assessment of the differences. I play Norse knowing I will do less damage, simply for the damage reduction talents. You are correct that PFT is a huge dps improvement when used on groups. However unless you are overriding an Immolate PFT is still better than FB or RP.

That was it, it was the Double Vital ticks. I forgot all about it. haha, now I feel like a dingo. Okay Question number 2! All Scoundrels: Is it worth it to have the extra 3 seconds on Vital Shot for PVP? Or would you take that point and put it in Flash grenade or Alacrity boost?

No one says they can't. We simply stated that an AP has the mobility to do more. You may think you are coming across differently, but I can guarantee every person reading your posts sees the same thing. PYRO IS THE ONLY SPEC YOU CAN PLAY IF YOU DON'T YOU SUCK AND NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY. PYRO RULES ALL, AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T PLAY IT IS HORRIBLE. That is exactly how your post reads. We are simply countering your comments using your logic saying all you care about is damage you can't do anything else. The truth is a pyro can be incredibly useful when played right, however 95 percent of the pyro's in this game rarely taunt, and almost always end up chasing. Because the play style lends itself to playing that why. It's a tunnel spec. See here is where you differ from everyone else who posts. We are saying Pyro is fine because it's main goal is hurting one target. It has pluses, and it has minuses. AP is also fine, it has great mobility and pft lends itself to amazing objective play. HTL and the 20 percent stun reduction is amazing when utilized correctly. It also is pretty easy to figure out how to heal it since all their damage is essentially the same. You are the one who refuses to say anything but PYRO IS AWESOME AND YOU ARE AN IDIOT FOR NOT PLAYING PYRO! I used caps to make it easier to understand.

This above is the standard bigotry of uninformed players who have no ability to adapt, aand think they are great because they can farm what could be the worst pvp server I ever saw. The fact that every legitimate pvp guild that was forced to go to Jung Ma, immediately left because as Sleens stated "Outside of OOS and maybe two other players there is zero pvp competition on this server". The fact that my guild was able to hit 300k a piece in a huttball while winning easily repeatedly on your server speaks volumes about your numbers of 600k easily. BTW, I know Commandos who would out damage you in their sleep. I saw a Guardian hit 600k solo queued on the Bastion which is a significantly higher level of pvp. So guess that means Pyro's stink now and no longer deserve to be in rated. Boy oh boy, your logic is a winner! Now to the OP, the above poster is what you will face if you announce you will play AP. Than when you pick up his dead body he will blame something else for his death and call you horrible. AP is a legitimate good way to play. The fact that every legitimate powertech readily acknowledges that AP is a legitmate spec if played correctly while the random trolls will scream about how bad it is should give you all you need. My 5 points about AP vs. Pyro are absolutely correct, and though Dardack and I have had scuffles in the past he agrees most of the way with me. The learning curve is severe, it took both myself and Dardack (we both pvp regularly) about 2 weeks to get the tree down. I personally like it, and my guild has several Tactics players in it. Granted they are required to prove that they can play it well in order to get into the ranked teams as Tactics. In ranked you have to have a focus fire team, Which generally consists of a Mara and a Pyro. If you don't have the Pyro, you have to have a good sniper or commando. The focus train is essential. Most teams will run 1 or 2 heals a tank, a 3 man focus train, and then your aoe squad. The focus train will consists of your quick hitters (Concealment Op, Rage or Carnage Mara, Pyro PT, Sniper, Commando) that's 6 out of 8 spots taken. Almost every team will have at least 2 or three of the quick hitters. The rest of your team will consist of Juggernaught, Lethality Op, Assassin or a Sorceror. Granted you will have some combinations of the above.

Pyro is superior if you have dps gear and want to 1v1 guys down. AP is better at objective play, and Tanks' are crazy tough to kill. However if you are going to be a tank you need to really get tank gear.

You can't get flechette until 40 .

I don't heal in solo queue's because you get zero help 50 percent of the time. If you are solo queuing and healing, you stun and run and get someone to pull off you. I played as a healer with my team and no one can kill me fast enough. I move around keep them chasing. Mara's can be kited. Tendon blast, cleanse their bleeds run and use your instants. Also stay in stealth until needed. If you are a healer, you should be worrying about underperformance. Sawbones is the single best tree we have easily.

most of your healing will be dots and instants, but the standard heals have to be weaved in as they are significantly better in terms of output. You weave your instants around the standard cast time.

Torhead is broken, and so the links in the posts are broken, but by reading you can see that the builds were the same. If you read the posts most of these were pre 1.2, and even post 1.2 it was noted that the energy cost of PFT and the length of time used might actually cost a dps loss, but that it's entirely possible to run it with a deep PFT. Both Exphyrl and Agooz stated picking up PFT is optional. They just choose to ignore it and grab CGC and HTL with 1 free point.

21 or 25 for Scrappers - not till 30 for DF.

So then why didn't you roll a DF sniper? That actually fits your style more outside of the heals part. My problem with smuggled tech has more to do with the 70 percent is pretty weak. I have never had a heal been really slowed due to damage, and if I am at a point where I need to heal a dirty kick heal is much better. I would think the slow attached to Shrap or the damage reduction talents would make more sense for you.

You play pvp? Wow, your comments about losing that badly to a sniper, and the fact that the snipers on your servers have both deep lethality and deep sharpshooting abilities led me to think you were just wandering around aimlessly. The 4 sec kill is a deep sharpshooter ability, the dots are lethality, and you can't have both. They have two knockbacks and that's only sharpshooters (whose main attacks you can dodge or defense screen through). You have the same amount of CC just use yours more intelligently. If you can't kill a sage I don't know what to tell you. Tendon Blast during sprint works wonders so does Flash Bang. It's obvious you struggle with the class, why not just move to a different class. You are complaining about the two easiest classes for us to kill. Is there a single class you don't have trouble with?

You have already been noted for attempting to disparage anything that doesn't agree with your personal experience. Noted. As for outplaying it depends on what your goals for that guy are. We know your goals are to do the MOST DAMAGE IMAGINABLE!!!! But personally I would rather have a 200k AP player who knows his class and plays for objectives than that type of thought. Finally, dps is about the only thing that Pyro is good for. I noted the downsides of AP previously. It's all about how you want to do your damage and play. If this is too complex for you let me know.

It's you. The class does suffer a bit in recruit gear, but once you get to 1100 or higher expertise with a good weapon you tend to come back to the fold. If you are having no fun and want to be op than go roll a sentinel. We need more of them ;p. Be patient and wait till you get your gear. Edit: Never mind all you did was complain. You should have realized by 30 you couldn't play this class and rerolled then.