Wow, so we can get 75% of our full DPS from 30m away. I knew we'd be able to do decent damage, but I didn't suspect it'd be that high. This is why I'm leveling as Assault spec. Thanks for testing it! I'm not going to be going after ranged classes on their own terms, but this is still great to know.

QFT. Other classes might have an excuse for losing to a sage, especially if they're caught at range or the sage burns CDs. However, Vanguard is the prime sage-killing class. We have heavy armor, Harpoon/Storm to get into melee, a really frequent interrupt, and high damage. We've got all the tools needed to take down light-armor cast-time nukers.

By the way, for anyone wondering about this: I got the talent. The answer is that it's the second one. That means Assault gets a 50% slow that we can keep up constantly with ease. It's already come in handy while chasing people down with Hammer Shot in PvP. It only takes one or two Hammer Shots to proc, and then they're slowed by 50% for 8s. I think the best part is that you get it by attacking normally; you don't have to spend a GCD on a skill just for the slow (like Consulars do with Force Slow). Dead useful for kiting melee, especially with Ion Pulse's guaranteed proc.

I'm sorry, but that build seems bad to me. I understand not wanting to have a focus on gut. However, to avoid points in gut, you had to put points into Focused Impact, which boosts HiB. You have no way to apply a DoT with that build, so you have no reliable way to use HiB. Also, you said yourself that you don't use it. You might as well put those points into Gut. Even though you probably won't use it, it's a better way to spend the points than an upgrade on a skill that you definitely won't use. Also, if armor penetration is your thing, I'd recommend a build that looks something like this. Penetrating 90% armor is actually better than dealing elemental/internal damage. Even the best tanks don't have much more than 50% armor, which means they have 5% armor against HiB. Anyone with the Consular/Sorcerer buff will have 10%+ damage reduction against elemental attacks. Yes, it can be defended, but most people ignore defense rate, and HiB does plenty of damage to make up for that.

I agree with this. I believe that Bioware has done a great job balancing all the classes in terms of DPS/utility. There are small differences, but in general they're all competitive. The key is which class fits your play style the best. I have a friend who's a great Gunslinger, and he cuts a swathe through enemies in both PvP and PvE. He's one of the few people who can consistently challenge me in a duel. In his hands, Gunslinger is a great class. However, I gave gunslinger a try once, and it just felt wrong for me. I guarantee that with all else being equal, he could pull far more DPS, react faster, and coordinate better with a Gunslinger than I ever could. Even though Gunslinger might objectively have higher DPS than Vanguard, I'll help my team out much more on my Vanguard or my Shadow than I ever could on my Gunslinger. Someone who is playing the class that fits them will be far better than someone stuck with a class they don't like because it's the "best". Whenever I see someone saying that their class is broken or it sucks, I think the problem is that they're playing the wrong class. So if your'e not playing your trooper anymore, that's fine. I hope you find the class that fits you best. Since this class doesn't fit you, you probably could lose to a healer in DPS. But that doesn't mean the rest of us are like that.

I'm pretty sure I'm not seeing that, but I'll check when I get home.

I think the point is that i'ts only a 0% bonus if you both have the same expertise. If your opponent has full War Hero, and you're running around in gear with the same PvE stats but no expertise, be prepared for a sound thrashing. The point is to allow PvP gear to be separate from PvE. They don't want you to be able to take War Hero gear into a nightmare op; they want you to go through the normal gear progression for PvE. The expertise system allows them to have great gear progression for both PvP and PvE, but without having to worry unduly about overlap.

As far as I can tell, it's working fine for me. What issues are you having?

Okay, I can answer this as my main is a level 50 Shadow. I'm a knowledgeable player, and an active forum contributor. Let's go through this point-by-point. Utility This is a huge advantage to Vanguards. I love how you say that we get "a whopping two stuns". Well, Shadows also only get two stuns. We each have the generic 4s stun. Vanguards get a crazy good AoE stun. Shadows get a single-target 2s stun. So Vanguards win in terms of stuns. Vanguard's pull is better. It has a 10s shorter cooldown (w/talent), and a root effect (w/talent). Also, all Vanguards get Harpoon. Shadows only get Force Pull by going deep into tank spec. Vanguards have a better closer, too. Storm allows you to reach any target you can see within range. A shadow's Force Speed only increases their movement speed, meaning they really can't close in Huttball. Even on flat ground, it's slower than Storm (and on a lower cooldown!). Vanguards and Shadows our equal in terms of debuffs. Vanguard AoE taunt is ranged, making it far easier to use. Also, our damage debuffs are better. We get Static Field for -4% damage, and Smoke Grenade for -20% accuracy (huge against some classes!). Shadows get an AoE -5% accuracy, and an AoE -5% damage. Shadows have an AoE 30% slow, but their single-target -50% slow has a 6s duration and 12s cooldown, and requires using a GCD. Vanguards don't have an AoE slow, but we have a single-target slow that happens automatically from attacking normally. Defenses Vanguards have better slightly better defenses when comparing tank spec. Shadows have cooldowns that give a burst of high defense, but it's unreliable. They have one that gives +50% deflection, but that doesn't work on a good number of attacks. Their other cleanses effects, and gives 3s (5s with talent) of tech/force immunity. Our Reactive Shield works against everything, and has a nice, long duration. We're also more reliant on shielding and mitigation, and less reliant on defense rate. This means that we're much less likely to take a huge spike of damage thanks to bad RNG luck. When comparing DPS specs, Vanguard wins by a longshot. For one thing, we have significantly higher defenses just from heavy armor, and our cooldowns are a lot better. Reactive Shield and Adrenaline Rush actually have incredibly low cooldowns in Assault spec, and Tactics takes less damage while stunned (huge!). Also, we can attack at range if needed. The only advantage Shadows have here is the ability to stealth. Attack I'd place Vanguard and Shadow at roughly equal in terms of attack, but with very different styles. One thing is key. Shadows are not a ranged class. They have a cooldown that increases the crit chance of the next two force attacks by 60% (massive burst!), but they can choose to use that to make a moderate channeled attack 30m ranged. So they can only attack at 30m by wasting an incredibly strong burst cooldown. They can do a little damage from 10m, but are required to be within melee range to be anywhere near full damage. They rely on melee procs to greatly enhance 10m ranged skills. Vanguards can easily do 80% DPS or more from 10m range, and a good amount from 30m. Shadows, especially when comparing tanks specs, are better at bursting. For a Vanguard to pull even close to the same amount of burst, they have to dump a lot of ammo, which leaves them hurting until the fight is over. Shadows have a steady resource regeneration rate, so dumping all their force doesn't hurt them at all. However, their high melee burst (especially when Infiltration specced) is balanced by the fact that they have to be in melee range while wearing a bathrobe. I just recently started playing my Vanguard, and I have to say I'm loving it. I don't even have all my basic tools (like Harpoon, Riot Strike, or High Friction Bolts/Ionic Accelerator), but I still enjoy it more than my Shadow. This is largely because Assault Vanguard fits my playstyle perfectly. However, I can say with confidence that they're both incredibly viable classes. If you're doing badly on your Vanguard, it's a playstyle issue rather than a class issue. I suggest you go actually give Shadow a try. I almost guarantee you'll be missing your Vanguard like crazy. And if not, then congrats on finding the class that fits you.

Kinetic and Energy are the two damage types that are mitigated by armor. Sage skills like Project (throwing a rock at you) are Kinetic, which we all know is mitigated. The Sorc mirror skill Shock deals Energy damage. If Energy wasn't mitigated, that would be a massive imbalance. Also, all weapon damage (except maybe if you're using a vibrosword or something) is usually Energy. Hover your mouse over "Damage Reduction" in your character sheet, and you'll see that Kinetic and Energy are mitigated by armor. However, those numbers are still clearly bugged.

Yeah... I'm a new Vanguard, coming over from a Shadow. I had all the non-tank defensive upgrades you can get on my Shadow, and I still feel way, way harder to kill on my Vanguard. Maybe you guys were tankier before the patch, but I can tell you that you still have much higher defenses than a light armor class.

You can resist tech/force attacks, but you can't parry/dodge/shield them. Which makes sense for things like Ion Cannon or Sith Lightning, but not so much for Stockstrike or Sticky Grenade. But oh well.

That is something I did not know. That should really come in handy. Thanks! I never had to think about this on my Shadow. Everything was very clearly melee or force, no ambiguities.

Ah, thanks. I completely could not remember what color the damage was (I'm at work). Also, I haven't used Gut yet. Kind of counter-intuitive that you can parry a lightsaber but not a knife. But oh well, such is the game.

Okay, I have a noob question about attack types. Are Stock Strike and Gut counted as melee or tech attacks? The obvious answer is that they're melee, but I can't say I recall having SS deflected. That could be because most people don't bother with defense rating in PvP (and I haven't PvP'd much), or it could be melee damage. Anyone know?

This may not necessarily be a bug. The description of Pulse Cannon says that it hits a cone. If you look at the shape of a cone, it's incredibly narrow directly in front of the origin. This means that they can be only a little to the side, and you'll miss them. Let's say it's a 90-degree cone. If they're 8 meters in front of you and 3 meters to the right, you'll hit them. But if they're 2 meters in front of you and 3 meters to the right, they're outside the cone. So if you're using it on someone who is right in your face, expect to have issues actually hitting them. The best policy is to be about 5m away from the group, so you can hit them all.

Level 14 now, and I'm loving this class even more. The insane kill speed of a Vanguard with Aric Jorgan out is crazy. Sticky Grenade -> Pulse Cannon will destroy a group of landscape mobs, and I can even take down strongs and elites in a hurry. Things that were incredibly hard on my Shadow are much easier now. I'm leveling incredibly fast. PvP is awesome too. I've done five warzones, and gotten top damage for all of them. Part of that is Bolster combined with my blue/purple crafted gear (made this guy an armormech ), but it's also that the class fits exactly how I want to play. And I have to say, I've yet to find anything more satisfying than using stockstrike on a sith with a lightsaber in each hand, or using Pulse Cannon on five imps trying to cap a node in Novare. I'm so mad that I didn't start as a Vanguard. I could be level 50, and moderately geared out by now. But at least I have legacy buffs. It's great being able to rely on the 10% internal/elemental reduction from the Consular buff.

Oh, yeah, our damage isn't going to be great, but I'm just curious how high it is. And there are times when a crucial kill target is out of reach (like Huttball), but Harpoon is on CD, that it would be good to be able to DPS from 30m. Other than rare occasions like that, though, I doubt I'd ever try to sustain damage at 30m. Still interesting to know how good we'd be, though. You'll notice I specified using it only to avoid wasting ammo by sitting at full. As you mention earlier, most of our 30m ranged attacks are on a 15s cooldown, which means there's plenty of time to fit an Explosive Round or two in without hurting your ammo. But it's definitely a bottom-priority skill in essentially any situation.

Umm...It's the only reliable way you can use HiB as Tactics (with HEC), and it makes HiB auto-crit? I don't know, that seems like a good reason to me.

I was looking through the set bonuses available for this class, and something occurred to me. I wonder how good it would be if you mixed the set bonuses from the PvP Combat Medic set and the PvE Supercommando set. Each of those gives +3 reactive shield duration, for a total of 18s reactive shield. It seems like that could be incredibly powerful when combined with Assault's Reflexive Shield talent. That lowers the CD of Reactive Shield to between 40s (assuming you take damage constantly) and 60s (assuming you take damage 50% of the time). Taking 25% less damage from all sources and types is pretty powerful, and it seems like that might actually be worth using. The only downside would be having to remod four pieces of armor. What do you guys think?

I'd like to request a parse from a geared 50. What does Assault's 30m damage look like? I'd think the rotation priority would be something like: High-Impact Bolt: On burning target. Incendiary Round: On expiration. Full Auto Assault Plastique Explosive Round: 10+ Ammo Hammer Shot I'm curious how well we'll actually do at 30m. Obviously we won't be able to match Gunslingers, Commandos, or Sages, but we should be able to pull a decent amount of DPS from range. I'm hoping for 1k or more, and frankly, I'll be surprised if we can't break 1k. If you could include your melee DPS with the same spec and gear (so we can get an accurate comparison of 30m v melee), that would be great. If you're really interested, a 10m parse (so no stockstrike) would also be awesome. I'm betting we can hit a good 80-90% of melee damage from 10m range, as long as we can use Ion Pulse.

Your shield specialist changes make sense. That is intended to be a melee spec. I don't necessarily agree with them, but they would make sense for the class and spec. However, your tactics changes, especially pulse shot, are wildly out of line. Vanguards aren't meant to be 30m players. We're better than any other melee spec at 30m, especially if we go Assault, but we're meant to be within 10m for maximum damage. That's the whole reason Ion Pulse isn't a 30m skill. They want us to be at least somewhat up close and personal. Additionally, even if Pulse Shot made sense (which, again, it doesn't), it would be the logical addition to Assault, which has lots of boosts to 30m ranged damage. Tactics is clearly meant to have more of a focus on melee. You get lower CD on harpoon, increased movement speed, a great 2D closer, a melee attack, and a large boost to your 10m AoE attack. Giving Tactics the ability to do essentially full DPS at 30m range would completely change the spec. You're not asking to make it better at what it does, you're asking the devs to buff you up insanely and completely change the class. This reads like you're saying "I want to be OP! BUFF ME!". If you want changes, propose changes that would make you better at melee, mobility, and closing (which is the focus of Tactics). And propose changes that wouldn't unbalance the game or drastically change the role of your class.

Oh, good point. I didn't notice that it was only AP and not Sticky for that Talent. I guess it's worth considering getting the skill, especially since "Burnout" and "Adrenaline Fueled" are looking more and more attractive to me as I think about them. Also, this never got answered, so I'm going to repost: Okay, question #5. The Assault talent "Sweltering Heat" says: I see two ways this could be interpreted. The first is that when Plasma Cell applies the 6s DoT, it also applies a 50% slow for 2s. The second is that when Plasma Cell's DoT ticks, it applies the 2s slow. If the second is true, then this is actually an 8s slow and pretty easy to keep up at all times. I'm guessing the first is true, though. Which is it?

Personally, I hate the new design. It just... hurts my eyes. It's not as neat or as clear as the old one was. However, I understand that this is a matter of preference. I'm sure there are people who felt about the old design how I feel about the new one. Could we get an option to change between site designs? Even if you leave the layout similar, I'd like a forum skin that's pretty close to the old design. It was much easier for me to read.

I don't know how we compare to guardians, but I can tell you that we have infinitely better AoE than Shadows do. I'm only level 12, and I already have Sticky Grenade, Pulse Cannon, and Mortar Volley. Add in Aric Jorgan in AoE mode, and I'm shocked at how fast I can disintegrate a group of mobs. It's one of the many things I'm loving about the class.