You can just farm last boss for nim and try to get those mounts. No need to do whole ops in nim.

One thing about chain-shock. How about change it like if u crit shock chain-shock is autocrit and if don't crit shock then chain-shock is non-crit. Now RNG rolls separately for shock and chain-shock.

As OP that would be, i just laugh the idea. Recklessness, discharge, lacerate, discharge, lacerate, discharge and so on. Tearing thru several ppl in pvp would be like a walk in the park.

Maybe increasing proc rate for maul and surging charge. Fix those missing surging charge stacks and giving us mains stat and crit boost from skill tree. Deception PVE

I remember seeing in some post (fp's operations etc.) that 94 surge gives about same amount dps as 32 mainstat in DF gear. If this is true then you lose dps with 2 accuracy augments over full wp augments. But since RNG affects more than few dps way or another it really doesn't matter in the end.

Ty for answering.

Sure. When guild has DF/DP HM in farm you can get full bis in few weeks. Nothing special here.

Don't get too exited . I was just asking around IF anyone has FOUND the BiS rating.

People whine about everything and most people just suck. Plain and simple. And sin's are as easy to shut down as any other class. Anyways.. I don't need any buff to damage of abilities, they already are on the same level on heavy hitting abilities other classes have. I'd like to have some consistency for PVE.

At first I'd get rid of that handicapped way of thinking that one spec is for PVP and one is for PVE. That just makes things harder to come up with good solutions to improve this class. And deception sin is lol easy to shut down and it's not that op as everyone says. Second I'd made some changes to RNG since that is the biggest problem with deception. Currently I have no idea how to do that but I know BW can do something about that. They already buffed consistency for operatives and got rid of vengeance juggernauts RNG. Otherwise deception dmg is ok and that doesn't need buffing. Maybe small buff to madness burst dmg would help spec in PVP and PVE. Can't really say anything more for that since I personally don't like madness and I have played deception sin as main almost from launch. Surely I have tried it out but it just is too boring.

Madness and deception both need some fix for PVE. Deception isn't just for PVP and we are on average the bottom DPS class in PVE. We need some rework for both specs and not just QQ to play madness in PVE and leave deception just for PVP. Remove RNG from deception or make it bit more gracious. No need for dmg buff but something for consistency.

Pff... And again we come to RNG. Other classes sure can have exact BiS value but not us :/ Well maybe not exact value but more accurate value than us.

Just get rid of phase walk and give us something useful like other classes got. Phase walk was just another way to **** assassins and shadows. That is my opinion. Sure I try to find some use for it but it just crappy ability and nothing changes that.

They are both quite good in pve too, but not in those limits BW has said they like dps classes to perform. Within the 5% difference.

If they are going to do more class balancing they should buff assassins and shadows properly. Now they are worst performing dps class in pve. And both deception and madness should be viable in both pvp and pve.

Well it can happen and has happened too many times for me. I'm pretty sure RNG hates me.

That just means you are very lucky. I see recklessness stacks go unused all the time and I'm sitting near 30% crit change also. RNG is a b***h.

Something like that could work. And sure bw can do something for deception/infil. rng since they buffed vengeance jugs quite a bit. Guildie parsed around 2800 before 2.6 and 3100 after the vengeance fix with the same gear and with about the same rotation as before 2.6.

OFC i'm doing something wrong when rng can affect that much in dps.

If rng affects your dps over 300 so then imo it needs rework.

Deception / infiltrate need rework on RNG and force crit. Nothing else...

I was hoping for a more exact number.

Has anyone yet defined optimal dread forged gear crit-rating for deception spec?

Yea. Around 3,8k is correct. i'm one implant short from full DF and around 30secs dmg is around 3,6-3,8k. Depending on crits. But anyways. This whole opnener thing is just waste of time. Hell you can even open with crushing darkenss on dummy and beat both of these opening style dps in 1M hp dummy. The RNG keeps us in the bottom of sustained dps, no matter how good or bad u start.

Off topic. Since BW is doing something for jugg/guardian RNG would it be too much to ask to do something with deception's horrible RNG.