If they release new content, anything is possible

Myron plz.

I'd just use AP PT's, they continue 90% of their rotation outside of 4m which makes any mechanic forcing them out of melee range pretty meaningless (aka F1 Revan, strange positioning on Blaster/Master, P1 Coratanni). I forget, why did they get 30m TD back and a buff to MB range? Seems balanced amirite?

Not sure if offended. Guess I'm moving in with you Milas. This Australian replaced Kesmet (may he R.I.P) for #WRLDFRST, see sig block below. TBH I skimmed the last 5 pages cause stuff that, but I put the recommendation to the last runner of the Progression Thread to add an APAC tag for *RECRUITMENT PURPOSES ONLY* If your group is made up of 1 American, 3.5 Australians, 1.5 Kiwis and 2 Jamaicans but you run during GMT6-13 (or whatever) you get a shiny yellow tag to let other people on that timezone know who is progression raiding. Simple as that.

Thanks friend.

I've updated the original post to make it feel (hopefully) like a community noticeboard and not just a "I want this, make it happen". I also removed the Entrench point as I couldn't come up with a change that would be beneficial to both. It's not meant to homogenise the classes, but bring them into line with each other. Numbers on a dummy don't matter, but how well that number transfers into a raid scenario/arena. It's almost as if the devs got halfway through the thought of making Snipers more mobile by removing the cover requirement for all bar 2 abilities (Suppressive Fire/Entrench) and gave up halfway through. 60% AoE reduction for 20-23 seconds, and provides a movement speed increase that can be refreshed as long as the buff is up (NiM Brontes anyone). When atleast 60% (rough guess, someone work it out if they want) of raid damage is AoE based, and gives protection against all knockbacks and stuns, how is that not overpowered. Then add onto that a Shield Probe (with +30% from the Utility), Ballistic Dampners and a passive 6% DR while in cover with another utility. Snipers take 0 damage in raids. It's not about how strong/weak that utility is, it's the strength of the other utilities in it's group that make it not worth picking up. It wasn't intended to make MM look bad, it performs fine at the moment in almost every fight (struggles in Blaster/Master and Revan). I'm not asking for Snipers to be brought up to the mobility of Mercs/Sorcs (they received at a minimum of two ways to increase movement), I'm just looking for something more than a utility that offers nothing to the spec other than "it does more damage than rifle shots". MM Snipers got left in the cold with the Discipline update other than the small QoL change of putting an armour debuff on an ability replace. I would rather the rotation be harder than just the correct management of 1 dot that outside of providing a raid debuff gives nothing but a very minor DPS gain. That's what I'm hopefully going to turn the thread into. I haven't PvP'd on a Sniper since Conqueror was Ranked comms so I'm well out of the loop of what life is like for a PvP Sniper, so hopefully those that are can post constructive feedback on PvE *OR* PvP issues.

It's not harsh they are fair points. My thinking for Engineering Mobility is from a PvE point and the amount of abilities they can use that still function for the rotation (2 dots, Plasma Probe, Discharge, Frag Nade to maintain railgun dot) which in terms on GCDs is more than Vir and MM. The DoT refresh is more of a QoL thing, extended fights cause for repeated casts of a fairly energy heavy ability where other classes (previously mentioned PT, as well as Affliction for Sorcs) don't have that issue and effectively cut a GCD out of the rotation if they have 100% uptime. I'll be at work for the next 12 hours so I won't be able to edit the original post until then but I'll almost completely redesign it with PvP in mind. The utility issue is a huge point like you pointed out so I'll reply to that when I get back. If you or anyone else have ideas feel free to keep posting them and I'll update when I can.

I agree, my thinking was to get the PvE side in agreement for possible changes and then work on what that would mean for the class as a whole. Maybe I should approach this better. I'll work on the different points at work and repost them with PvP in mind. Although the Entrench point is me being selfish in an attempt to cheese mechanics on some fights. What are your thoughts on the other two points?

Ty for reading my disclaimer. Updated title to make it a bit clearer. There wouldn't be a point explaining the reason why it is overpowered, any sort of PvE outside of flashpoints would make it obvious. If you are after a debate about PvP Snipers you're in the wrong thread sorry.

In an attempt to promote discussion on the state of Snipers as a whole I decided to make this thread to address any issues with the class, and talk about any changes that can benefit them in the long term. I've listed a few idea below where I feel Snipers should go (admittedly in a PvE thinking) but feel free to raise any PvE/PvP points. Mobility Issue: Dot Maintenance: Feel free to discuss anything I've put in the post, either here on in game. I'm on Harbinger the guilds in my forum sig, /who either and look for the name with ay', it will be me.

God I hate you Shulk. Why must you give me another Sniper to compete against. I guess it's nice to have some sort of competition considering how bad Krayt is. Welcome back

Because Ero is slow, here is the video screenshot of achievement inc; Dread Master: 4:49am PDT, 7:49am EST (time in video), 9:49pm AEST 24/09/14

EDE missed it by about 10 minutes last night, but yet another roster change for next week. The struggle is real.

I've been hit a couple times middair while jumping, seems the 100% way is to land. Although its pretty funny being 0.00m on the boss and being knocked directly up. The change back to 1.5 seconds isn't really even worth thinking about. Get out of the cleave, repeat til dead. My baseline ping is 220-250 and I've streamed on 300-350 and still kited so I would be looking at the player not the mechanic if anything goes wrong.

While I think the healing will be boring beyond belief, tanking will still be aids unless you have some other strat like a dps off taunt. Exhibit A: http://www.twitch.tv/araulos/b/565373058 - 2:10:40 Pull boss, get first knockback, get Soa'd. How am I meant to stop that? Dat Deathmark cleanse tho.

So we want to discredit people, with an already dwindling Nightmare capable playerbase, for finding someone that can fill in on the last week of non-nerfed content. Would you rather them just not raid at all or get them to move a toon into their guild for the day just for the purposes of this thread? Anyway gratz to Epic on the kill, fingers crossed for another kill before 2.10.

6 Days ago is a long time? I apologise that we don't raid til Friday so it would be earlier.

Misread the "burst down like that" as to much burst. My bad.

I guess 10 energy is more important than Ballistic Dampers, in Baird's case anyway. Kinda hard to back up "there is to much burst" when you don't pick up defensive talents. I understand your point though, if it was a Sage they would be just as wrecked. Although what I want to know is why Baird only went to 70% after TB and Smash, yet Mung gets insta gibbed from 85% with just an extra ~10k dmg from Shock. The wonders of this ****** fight.

Imagine that, not even five minutes ago, I get pulled into buffing Thundering killing our healer. Doesn't matter if it's 8 or 16, buffed Thunderings lead to death 90% of the time.

Not sure why you're pretending that doesn't happen in 8man.

Oh....that strat. That damage is completely avoidable by the tanks learning how to tank and placing corruptions/swapping properly so not getting any sympathy for that.

I'm sorry...what? 1. How can there be no timestamps when pulled out of a log and 2. My point was addressing the frequency of the damage on a single player, not the amount. If it all happens in the space of a GCD I would agree with you, but if not I blame your healers for not keeping up. Your list shows nothing to answer that, so that's why I asked. In the five logs I have uploaded of kiting on my Sniper, I could only find one instance where I got Shock/TB'd/Smashed within 3 seconds of each other. Every other time it was 10+. Can't really compare the damage values because Snipers #OP and all that but I can't see how using that combo as a reason for wipes is a good excuse. Edit: Just remembered I kited on my PT last week. Max Hits: Thundering Blast - 13733 Smash - 7372 Shock - 1662 So give or take 7k on the combo. If double the healers can't handle an extra 7k damage (plus the extra damage from Smash and however many targets TB hits) then I just don't know.

Can we get a time period for that, because at the moment it shows absolutely nothing. If it was 34k in 1 second, sure that's hard to heal but if that is an extended time period I'd be looking at healers. I give Milas paint skills 9.5/10

I don't think you can compare the same amount of time when it was 6-9pm for APAC players but like 5(?)am for US. It was during our prime time, not theirs. Nothing is going to happen to compensate us anyway, been years since they last did that. Like 1.4?