^ This. Also, there's no substitute for situational awareness. Look over the wall at mid, watch what direction the red sigs head in from respawn, check your mini-map for purple friendlies running frantically around the node, and count how many red sigs you can see at your node - if there are no red sigs at your node/door that doesn't mean they're all having a smoke break beside the speeder bike, it means they're all attacking the other node/door. If they lure you off node or around the corner or pillar, you can be sure there's a stealther behind you waiting to cap, so at least stay in range and rotate your camera view once in a while.

I LOL'd.

Commando/Mercs have come a long way. They're much more enjoyable than they used to be in PvP. Electronet, Hold the Line, baseline KoltoBomb and a more compressed dps rotation (gunnery/arsenal) have done a lot for our quality of life. There's still not much room for error though. At this point the only thing I would ask for would be shorter cooldown on Electronet, and perhaps some sort of proc'd immunity to leapers (say, for the first few seconds after the knockback). In terms of group utility, I see a lot of players that need to use Electronet more effectively and use KoltoBomb more frequently on their teammates. Some ideas that have been thrown around in the past include some sort of turret-like ability or proc that applies defensive buffs to teammates in close proximity or that triggers an area-denial mechanic of some sort. But realistically, I think the current state is the best that it's going to get for dps commandos/mercs.

Checking in! I'm interested in knowing if there's an active LGBT guild on POT5. Anyone know? I'm currently leveling my scoundrel, Tavyr. I've been playing SWTOR for a while and wanted to try all the storylines & playstyles, so I have several toons on both factions - Rep: Aroree, Zipspree, Farrendahl, Tavjun, Tarjun, Ranjun. / Imp: Lapti'nek, Shadinloth, Tavjin, Tanjin. It would be great to have a list of active LGBT (and LGBT-friendly) guilds on all the servers. I'd start a new toon on a different server if that's the only option, just for the experience & comfort level of rolling with an LGBT (or LGBT friendly) guild. If anyone has more info, please share it here or msg me in-game (currently I'm on POT5 regularly as Tavyr and Tavjun). Cheers and all the best to everyone.

^This is how it's done. Choose what look you want in orange/adaptable gear, something you can stick with, and swap your Partisan mods into it, augment the pieces as you go, and then trade the empty Partisan shells for Conqueror pieces once you have enough comms. Then swap all the Conquerer item mods into you orange gear as you go. This process is already pretty expensive without having to augment more than one set of gear.

Good idea. The fundamental issue is that this Advanced Class design is entirely reactive in PvP. Anything that helps off-set that paradigm is welcome - like an out-of-combat speed boost. Not quite a gap closer à la Force Speed or Roll, but nevertheless something that helps commandos take the initiative.

I wonder if the Powertech player base is overreacting a bit. They've gone without a significant nerf to their burst dmg until now, and they're also the only AC that gets their healer as their first companion at the start of the game. So they're long accustomed to playing both PvP and PvE in easy-mode for most of this game's lifetime. Not to be insulting, but this particular spec/AC combo strikes me as the type of compromise that gamemakers include in order to enable kids to participate in the game without frustration (to be honest, I suspect the same compromise informed the design of Rage/Focus on a Jugg/JK, albeit less obviously). There's been a long-standing game-wide consensus that Pyro-powertech burst was overpowered, especially relative to the skill required. The spec & class continually rewarded mediocre (and bad) gameplay with easy victories. I suspect that's the mindset behind some of the overreactions we're seeing among the pyro-powertech player base. As an aside, I also find it interesting that there's almost no complaint from the Vanguard half of the equation (or very little).

Has anyone actually posted before-&-after numbers demonstrating the extent of the nerf? I still see Pyro-Powertechs melting faces within a few GCDs.

^ Agreed. Easy-mode pyro-powertechs have been overpowered since this game started, melting faces and chuckling the whole way using the least challenging rotation in the whole game. Now they've finally been cut down to size and their player-base (those complaining, at any rate) are proving that they can dish it but they sure can't take it. And frankly the spec is still melting faces, just not as fast, and not with the same 100% assurance of a win. Sorry, but take your lumps along with the rest of us, suck it up, and move along. I have a Vanguard alt and always played Tactics spec in PvP just for the challenge and because easy wins bore me. Learn to deal with adversity. PvP is meant to be challenging. Adapt and stop crying. - a Gunnery Commando.

That's one of several reasons this Advanced Class is still broken for high-level PvP. It's gotten a little better, but it's definitely not on par with other classes in a post-2.0 game. The status quo of the class hasn't really changed: we put out good numbers if ignored, but without those cooldowns we can't shake mdps and our damage output still drops like a stone. There's no mobile burst in the rotation without those cooldowns, and very limited ability to kite when mdps is on you.

This is a pattern I'm noticing. It all depends how far off the node they want to chase you. If they're determined, they'll get you, but often they turn back. The commando is very weak between the long cooldowns, so there's this oscillating pattern in how the commando must engage, retreat, engage at the fringes depending on whether he gets noticed. You can make a single pursuer pay dearly, but if you survive you'll be a lame duck until your cooldowns come back up. Not sure how likely it is that we'll see changes to our cooldowns which is probably the easiest fix (either in their flat duration or in a proc'd reset of some kind). There seems to be a lot of push-back from mdps regarding the effectiveness of Electronet. We were taken for granted as free kills for so long that some ppl don't want to see that change. The situation has definitely improved for us, but it still feels like something is missing compared to my alts.

The changes to merc/mandos would have placed us closer to "at par" if they'd come in any previous update, but since 2.0 was a game changer for so many other ACs, the relative improvement for merc/mandos is small once you get over the novelty of actually being able to break the perma-snare and kite properly (which, admittedly, does feel great, but only because the lack of it was so painfully glaring for so long). In PvP, everything is relative.

Absolutely. I can't believe Assassins and Pyrotechs are complaining. Try rolling a merc/mando.

Agreed. I win a lot of 1v1's too, moreso now. But you still don't want a dps commando solo guarding a node when the chips are down. And the constant vulnerability to leaps is a real handicap for a ranged class. Once you're focused you can blow all your cooldowns to release some up-front burst and regain some range, but then they just leap on you again. All you did was set up their next attack for them. Gunslinger/Snipers don't have that problem.

I think that's all we're getting for a while, aside maybe from number tweaks.

Complaints re. commando / mercs concern the Advanced Classes' performance in high-level PvP, against groups of other high-level, high-skill, fully geared players. Not PvE or lowbie pug PvP. How many times does this need to be said? I'm seeing some improvement in the AC's mobility, survivability, and damage output (I haven't taken out my Merc healer yet since 2.0 dropped, so I can't comment on heals). We're still fairly vulnerable in all the ways we were before, but we're a bit more slippery, and Electronet + shorter rotation means we've become potentially very expensive kills (rather than simply free kills). That's an improvement. But a movement buff + a single-tarket DoT snare were pretty standard fare pre-2.0. All the fundamental vulnerabilities of the Advanced Class are still there, relative to the other ACs. Any comparison with snipers is hogwash. I still appreciate the changes very much. It's much better now than it was before. But I don't think we're at par or particularly desired in RWZs.

Things are definitely better. That could be because the situation was so bad before. Time will tell whether we're still at the bottom of the food chain, given all the other class buffs/abilities that have been introduced. I suspect we are. That being said, I'm definitely more mobile, am able to get more dmg out under pressure from melee and I can kite reasonably effectively against a single melee opponent provided I have all my cooldowns (since all the components of our "escape mechanic" are single-target and on long cooldowns, except of course our kb and Hold the Line). My 1v1's are a lot closer now than they were before 2.0, although I'm still dying a lot if there are no heals. The requirement for only 1 GR to apply the armor debuff has shortened the looong Gunnery rotation and helped with mobility, although GR's chance to reset Full Auto has not been raised, which means you still need to root yourself to cast extra GRs just to access a more heavy-hitting channeled ability. I would like to see the chance to proc FA reset distributed across a few other abilities (preferably instant ones, the Charged Bolts alternative isn't very useful here since it shares the same cast time with GR and won't refresh the armor debuff) in order to let us take advantage of our new capacity to temporarily regain some range when being focused by melee. Otherwise, you're still trying to proc FA by the time they've caught up with you, then it's the same old same old. This will also make the skill tree slightly less GR-centric. But I think this is as good as it gets for a while. We're going to have to make due. No temporary god-mode for Commandos, no teleportation, no in-combat target/aggro dump à la Force Camo, no roll (which I suggested for Commandos way back on these threads...a directional "dive-&-roll" escape)...But at least we got a few things which probably would have put us on par pre-2.0 (movement buff, a couple instant casts, a DoT snare, more reasonable resource mgt, a baseline instant self-heal, etc.). But I'm suspending judgment until I'm fully geared and bolster is stabilized. It may be just a matter of stat tweaks (dmg, CDs, buffs, mitigation) rather than structural changes to the Advanced Class from here on.

I wouldn't go that far. The gap has closed substantially with 2.0, but I wouldn't say we've pulled ahead. It's now possible to actually get some real damage out while under close pressure, and it's much easier to kite now, but I don't think we've pulled ahead. It'll be easier to tell once everyone has their gear and that whole naked bolster bug is fixed. It's a little hard to see the lay of the land in class balance atm.

It's Gunnery. And you think Assault Specialist is better?

The title of the thread is hyperbole imo. So bursty DPS is no longer the be-all-&-end-all of the WZs, and longer TTK is what everyone wanted anyway. What the changes mean is that there's now a more meaningful role for non-dps specs in WZs, as opposed to simply getting repeatedly farmed by DPS superstars in 4-GCD intervals. The changes really show who knows how to play as a team versus those who have been using pug matches to play as DPS solo superstars all this time. Focus one healer while mez'ing the other (and stop breaking cc with easy-mode AoEs and then boasting about dmg numbers in chat afterwards).

Yes, the damage is better, and I'm winning a bit more 1 v 1, but doing so still requires near "ideal" conditions. No room for mistakes. I have to get it perfect and my opponent needs to mess up somehow. Then I have a chance.

It's hard to tell with the current state of bolster, but I think a lot of the pre-2.0 criticism of Commando/Merc still holds, notwithstanding some quality-of-life improvements. Carrying the huttball has become a little more feasible for us and we suck just a tad less at kiting. But we're still stuck spamming grav round to get the proc'd reset on Full Auto (45% talented, but sometimes feels like less), with nothing to do in between GR when we're on our secondary rotation. Could probably put Electronet on a shorter cooldown. Its effectiveness is all over the place right now.

Agreed. I often use the same opener. And it's great in a kiting situation, when you can follow it up with Electronet, pop Hold the Line, and then go into your kiting rotation while they try to pursue. It's actually enabled me to solo some good smashers and assassins so far. And when it hasn't worked, I was still able to take their health down under 25%, which means we're no longer "free kills" we're at the very least expensive kills, and that's an improvement.

Keep in mind that this is a single-target ability. Some of the examples you mention are AoEs, often effecting the entire opposite team. Also, as a kiting tool it works well for 1v1, but obviously not so much versus more than 1 melee opponent, or one immediately following the other. I've also noticed some players adapting very quickly - freezing in place or LoSing to wait it out. However, I agree that Electronet + Hold the Line changes things immensely for Commando players. They give us a fighting chance, and a chance to participate fully as team members.

It's great to finally be able to participate fully in WZs with my Commando. I feel like a contributing member of the team. My Gunnery Commando is actually successfully carrying the ball to the endzone at a decent rate....and getting MVP'd ...MVP'd in HUTTBALL!