Wish I had some Revan pulls to tell ya what I've seen, but sadly we only downed SS this week. My group is a bit behind the power curve consider it's been week to week on whether we get HM attempts or not. Anyways, the one thing I noticed is that you seemed the be the one running the far side the beam when the yellow beam was out. Seems like a waste when both times you were attached to a Sage (not sure if it was a DPS or healer). Other than that, it looked like floor two was a tank miscue. Maybe in a few works I'll have more helpful info.

As others have said, you can clear 8/10 HM and put up quality numbers that compete with a groups, but if a group is class stacking than Juggernauts wont make the cut until 3.1.1+ (if the nerfs are substantial). PTs are the more viable option for melee since they dont always need to be in melee range, are extremely easy to play, and provide an armor debuff in AP. However, the idea most groups not competing for world firsts use for selecting players is "bring the player, no the class". So truth be told, if you're solid player with your preferred class than your spot is safe. If you are that far behind the group, you might want to look at what specifically you are doing wrong and adjust. Something else of note, I 100% prefer to play my Guardian for HM Ops, but I recognize that it is not always the best for a given boss. If we are struggling to kill a boss first time, I may swap to another toon, more than likely a rdps,if it goes to make it easier. As much as you may want to play your Jugg, doing what is best for the group is a better means of solidifying your raid spot than anything else.

Eh, I wouldn't really know since I carry barrels.

Lol oh no, we actually have to push our DPS instead of standing in fire......but yeah it sucks that BW took away the one fight where running 6 Guard/Jugg and 2 heals was viable.

Yeah, I dont believe Saber Ward was involved in increasing DR. I could be wrong, but my guess is whoever said that is thinking of the passive "Blade Tuning" for tanks. It increases Defense to 100% for the first 2 seconds of Saber Ward. If popped correctly, you can taking zero damage, but it is all dependent on the type of damage incoming.

Actually, this was possible pre 2.0 when our threat drop of the time, Focused Defense, worked far differently. If you combined Saber Ward, Warding Call, and Focused Defense (which was way different than how we see it today), than you could achieve roughly 100% DR for I believe 10 seconds. However, this was a hybrid build. Back when you could swap specs in a Warzone, I remember having a team of 2-3 Guardians who did this with having Unremitting available. It was insane. Edit: Here is a link to thread from 2012 that has the build I am talking about: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=412393

I've played with both quite a bit in parsing and I personally feel my numbers are better with the current 6-piece. The same is true for me in raids. With the current boss designs, it is truly difficult to have 100% up-time to your Ravage/MS, so that is removing the benefit of the old set bonus if you're not continuously getting all three hits of Ravage/MS off. Also, I have updated the OP to remove the guide and transition it to a Google Doc. The time to edit via the forums was truly annoying, so this will make things way easier allowing for faster updates. I also added in a video section for operation kills. If you have any submissions, please send me the links so I can add them in.

Although our DoT damage isnt great, it allows for greater mobility. If you removed the DoTs entirely then Veng/Vig would become little more than a shell of Rage/Focus. If DoTs are an issure, speaking of PvP, than run Rage/Focus. No DoTs, all burst, but you sacrifice a little survivability compared to Veng/Vig. The movement increase tied to a CD that increases DR has seemed a little dumb to me. I'd rather us see a general movement speed increase or decreased range/cooldown of Leap, but I dont see them taking either route. I feel like their is far to much tied to Enure including that utility.

1) Weaknesses I would say is mobility. Speaking from a DPS Vig/Veng perspective, the class is relant on MS/Ravage for the bulk of our damage. A 3 second cast and being in melee range isn't a good combination. 2) I am not a diehard PvP guy, so I will leave that for others to answer. 3) In my bias opinion, I believe they are performing exceptionally well given what we've seen previously. Our damage is far more viable, we have solid survivability in all specs now, and Saber Reflect is a really good cooldown in the new Ops. However, I dont see a Jugg/Guard DPS getting Revanchist (title from killing HM Revan) anytime soon simply because Mdps is rough in that fight. Hopefully someone does. 4) Vigilance/Vengeance for sure. It is the only spec I play on both my Guardian and Juggernaut because I have yet to find a truly good point to swap to Focus/Rage in the new Ops. Between the decent single target burst and AOE DoT spread, this spec is good in just about every situation. 5) I dont tank very often, and if I do it's on my PT/Vanguard. I'll let others who tank answer. 6) Improvements would be moving the current Heroic utility that cleanses from Focused/Enraged Defense to another cooldown. Between it only being usable at sub 70% HP and the long cooldown, I think it would fit better else where.

Right now, the debate between Might vs. Overkill augments is more of a preference than one is better than the other in my opinion. I personally choose Might because I think in the long run they will prove to be better than Overkill. This was the same in 2.0 as well going from 156 gear up to 186. At 156 rating, the Overkill were better from a mathematical standpoint, but once we reached 168s and up Might took over. Right now, the math, I believe it was Oofalong's post I read, says that Overkill are better, but I have had more stable parses with Might. This is in part to the little crit you receive from Strength. When looking at mods, I add the 2 stats that increase your base damage (Str and pow) together to determine what is better. The unlettered mods net more Str and Pow than a lettered mod, thus they are better overall. Enhancements should always be optimized. As a DPS, you should NEVER stack endurance. There is no reason because you're costing DPS for more health that you will probably not need. In the new Ops, I don't believe there is a mechanic that is unavoidable that you need more than 51k HP in HM. SM, you can get away with 43-45k and still not strain your healers. If you need more HP than what is given to you via BiS mods/enh than you need to look at why you're taking so much damage.

Lol, come on now I know you're a bit more geared than I am. But tbh, that parse of mine is truly a god-crit parse.

Yeah, that is just insane my friend. I pulled a 4700 on Torque yesterday, but given the other parses I've seen I was rather down about it until I saw how little damage Saber Reflect was doing.

Done it, it's not fun. I instantly pulled aggro from both bosses and got one shot since the heals weren't ready for that.

Ok man, you need to figure out which element you're talking about because the changes you are suggesting, specific to utilities which are in fact class changes, seem to cater to PvP. Others have suggested this before I even posted here so what does that tell you about your original post? Most of the utilities you want to see altered are PvP utilities. In PvE, I'd only take a few of those for specific boss fights. You call them "underused", but they aren't used in whatever area of the game you're in; which given the past few conversations I would wager a guess you're still leveling your Guardian. I would say keep your current utilities, try some PvP to see where you stand. Afterwards, swap in the utilities you mentioned, of which the majority are PvP utilities, and see how you do. I am willing to guess you'll see the quality of these utilities rather quickly. Just because you don't use a utility for every situation doesn't matter it worse than the next.

Here is my point. You started a thread about changes to a class that's in a solid state compared to other classes. Then when those that have played the class for quite some time contradict your statements, you back peddle and call us "trolls". This was the same case in our previous two conversations. The first about the removal of the GCD and the second on your videos assessing the Guardian class as a whole at lv25 (?). While MMOs do provide interesting leveling experiences, end game is always the focus of any MMO because that is where their long-term player base is. If your not assessing a class from an end game perspective, I would say you're missing out on half of the conversation entirely. Now, I am with a few other commentators in here in stating that I dont want to see an OP Guardian/Juggernaut in the game. Whether it be in PvP or PvE. Our current balance in both environments is strong and the various changes you've suggested would put us closer to the category of being OP.

I'm very confused as the the intent of this. Do I agree that some utilities need reworking? Yes, but the ones your mentioned, and in some cases the "fixes" you suggested, are just absurd. It is nice to say "I had a Jugg at 55 in 2.0", but this 3.0 with an entirely new system of specs and some very different utilities that are now used by all specs. I suggest level to 60 then make a suggestion on changes. Personally, I find PvP rather stale after a few matches, so it's hard for me to say anything about our state in the long run against various comps. However, I worked up to the 6-piece shortly after 3.0 dropped and I don't recall a game where I wasn't top 3 in damage, protection or objective play. Part of this is possibly because JC can be rather lackluster for PvP at times, but some of this is also attributed to how well the class currently plays. But I will say I am bias, I have played this class since launch, so I've seen both the good and bad times. And trust me, the class in it's current state is far better than what we've seen previously.

Personally, I use it in my opener right before Overhead Slash/Impale and basically on cooldown because for some reason the cooldown lines up with a MS/Ravage into Dispatch/Vicious Throw for me. However, I dont use my adrenal, parsing that is, a 2nd time unless the dummy is sub 15% when it comes off cooldown. As far as boss fights, its really dependent on where I am in my rotation, what mechanics are coming up, etc. My suggestion is try your best to time is so you get that full 15 seconds of up time with the adrenal.

I know man. Really hoping 5k is a thing in 198s once I am there.

OP has been updated for 3.0. We are currently looking to expand our progression raiding roster into 2 groups. Along with this, we are always seeking skilled pilots for GSF. If interested in either area of the game, please visit our website to submit an application after reading the OP. We will be touch soon after.

Good pick up on the use of Saber Reflect man, I will add it into the "Raiding Tips" section. Also, I have for all intensive purposes stopped working on the Focus guide (had quite a few in-game tells asking about it), so I will probably just direct you to LuckyGunslinger's guide on Dulfy until I have time to do anything with what I have thus far. As for PvP, I haven't heard from AndrewPast in a while, so if anyone is willing to help draw up some ideas for it contact me via PM or on JC on my main Vesev (Pub) or Vezev (Imp). And lastly, I was finally able to sit down and parse some today and hit this: 4829. Really good crit rates; way above my average of 4600ish. Gear is full 192s (6 piece SB) with one Revanite relic, two Revanite Implants and the Revanite headpiece. Here is a pic if your curious: Vesev's gear.

Figured I'd post these here for you guys to view. I have 3/5 HM Ravagers and 1/5 HM ToS Videos from a Guardian PoV right now. Hopefully, I will have more in next week from ToS. But here they are: Malaphar Sparky Bulo Torque

Given that I am only 2/5 in HM Ravagers, I feel like the difference is minimal on those boss in particular. Wish I had kept my logs, but I have been pulling 4200-4300 on Sparky w/ and w/o the new set bonus. Bulo can be chaotic at times mixed with being a barrel carrier so I range between 3k-3700. I only killed him once without the new 6 piece. I believe it was a 3300-3400, but that was three weeks ago so not sure if that's entirely accurate. I feel like the new set bonus just benefits moving fights where I may not get that final tick of MS/Ravage in consistently, so that auto crit can somewhat make up for that loss of damage down the road. However, it may be so minimal that it's unnoticeable.

Nice conversation going there fellas. I cant say I disagree on any particular point, but that bit on Revan, although not the full extent, is going to be rough when I get there. Looking forward to that fight highly. Umm I would say this, I find the new 6 piece is a quality raiding set bonus. It gives me more mobility by not relying on finishing MS/Ravage to get out the bulk of my damage. However, it is a lengthy cooldown, so I would hesitate to say that it's the better set bonus for every fight. The old 2 piece is good all around right now. This will probably not be the case in the future as we gain more tiers of gear, but right now you can run it without seeing any true diminish in numbers provided the fight allows you to complete MS/Ravage successfully often.

Believe it's still Manweth at 4778 on the 1.5 mil (beastly), followed by a 4750 (?) by Kalameet on the 1 mil and, unless I've missed a resent parse, mine at 4714 on the 1 mil. I havent seen any others above 4700, but I havent really been on the forums in a few weeks. Are you close to BiS 198s yet? Curious if 5k is obtainable yet. I might take you up on this offer. Provide no other life events take over, I will be in touch soon via here or twitch.

Man, I guess I'v been rather inactive. How did I miss this thread?! lol