Agree 100%. /signed

Take a look at the party jawa description. It was awarded to players who were subbed when F2P was launched. I actually looked at it when I rolled a new toon this time around and wondered why I kept getting saddled with this crappy thing. And they sad that the players voted for this reward. I never believed it. You only saw them pulled out a few days after they were rewarded and then raely again. I started playing the game within the first two months of launch. I remember the days of many servers, server ques, and multiple instances on the fleet. Of many times having to coordinate your party into the same instance before doing what you were going to do. It was one of the first things I noticed coming back to game... only one instance on the fleet and seeing single digit numbers there in the wee hours. I havent contended your observations of population decline, but I didn't expect to see those old numbers upon a return to a mature game. I also think the game could use a population boost... just not a boost consisting of a bunch of entitled leechers. If they wish to play, they should subscribe. Give newbies a trial. I like that suggestion someone made about a trial of the beginner planet plus the next and level to 20. After that, put up your sub or hit the road. I can't believe the crap here of folks thinking that they should only pay for the "endgame content" and then want to give away some of that. Completely boggles the mind. EDIT: sry for sp errors. posted from my phone. Edited quickly for spelling and grammer, so I lrobably didn't get them all. Screen too small for the eyes.

Either you missed my point or I wasn't clear enough... or maybe a little of both. For that I apologize. I did mention I understood the business aspects of it - what fails me completely is gamers willing to accept the decline in the quality of gaming it always brings with it. I was gaming long before the F2P model and can attest to the higher quality of gaming that existed then from experience. Maybe it is the current culture we live in with an entitled, self-centered "I want it all now with little or no cost to myself" point of view. This is what fuels the cash shop, after all: "Look at me and what I got! ...and I got it only on the 5th crate!" Thing is, they are paying much more to get it than if it existed to be obtained within the game and they had to play the game to get it... you know, how it used to be. They are shooting themselves in the foot - and doing it happily. So ya, I can understand a business making this decision... I don't understand gamers putting up with it. But I am a gamer from the Dark Ages, too (shamless DAOC pun). I remember occasions where you were fighting a tough mob to reach a node (or something similar) and folks running by would help you knock it down before going on their merry way. I remember folks actually stopping and letting you hit the node because you had arrived first, then waiting for the respawn for themselves. And I remember doing that often for others. And I still do it - I did it several times over the last two days on the Gree event... the surprise in the other players was palpable. You could see it in their play without them even stating a word. Out of those 5 or 6 times only one stayed to help me with my try at it. I didn't need it, but noticed and appreciated it. It saved a little time and generated good will - it felt good. So ya, gamers like this still exist... we are just a minority now it seems. That is sad, don't you think?

I pay because I believe in supporting the game I play in this manner - and that what I do actually DOES cost money to develop and maintain. It also provides an escape from some annoyances and doesn't limit my alts that I wish to play. The point I made is not that I wanted to play for free - it is that if the changes that the poster suggested were made, then it would give me more incentive NOT to subscribe. The idea being that his intention, and others' here, were to provide incentive to move TO the subscriber model... not away from it. My point is that his suggestions - and some others here - would provide incentive to do the opposite. There is more to the game than just endgame. Or it might be better to say that there is more than one or two types of endgame in an MMO. EDIT: Edited for clarification.

I was very disappointed with oricon.. did the story up to the op... and hit a wall as i wont do the op. Being forced into gtrouping with some boneheads who want to rush through it and see how fast they can kill the boss? No thanks... NOT friendly for story-people. And Iokath... picked up the quest when picking up all the others... and now can't abandon the quest... Nope I'm not doing that op either... and the story there just dropped like a rock... no "to be continued" type of ending... just... nothing. Was pretty unhappy about these two as far as story goes. I could write better story in my sleep. Who do they got writing now? it is a far drop from the original writing which brought me to love the game.KOTFE/KOTET were "MEH" kind of writing. You ever watch a movie or TV show that you enjoy and then find yourself rolling your eyes at some real stupid plot arc? Yeah I found myself doing that several times through there... And I think it had definite possibilities.... just very subpar writing for those of us who love good story.

My first graphic-based MMO was Diablo 2 back in the mid 90s. Before that was some dabbling in some of the MUDs that were out there...

Since coming back, I have noticed some issues... some of which you so eloquently describe above. So I am certainly not going to make a case that there is nothing wrong in the game. I CAN say that I am enjoying what I do in game... and that mostly because I avoid the RNG monster like the plague. I have spent money in the CM in the past and will do so again... but never have - and never will - buy a single cartel pack. That's a decision based on principle because I don't believe in supporting that business model. I don't believe that a game should reserve the best gear (or best looking gear) to a gambling model that you have to pay real money for. Paying loads of real money for a rare % drop is... I have no words... I wasn't here when 4.0 and 5.0 rolled out, but I can imagine the discontent in the player base for the reasons you describe. So I avoid getting caught up in the GC RNG grind for rare drops on my return to the game. Gambling for rare successes makes me angry and frustrated... e.g. my decision not to fully participate and get myself caught up in it. I used to raid a lot previously. This time around I don't want to get myself into another job. I'm here to relax, not add to my stress level. I spend time reading about my game - that's why I come to the forums to see what's happening. So yes, I can see these problems. And I can see that the population on planets and the fleet is nowhere close to what it once was. But the fact remains that I am seeing returning players constantly. How long will they remain? That's up to Bioware, I suppose. I think they returned for the same or similar reason I did... I couldn't find a decent game out there to compare to the enjoyment I had here. But I can also see that the quality of writing has taken a nosedive as well. What the heck happened to that? And the inability to enjoy story content with others in the later expansions is a very puzzling decision on their part. How long will I stay? I don't know... but I don't see myself leaving in the very near future. That's also up to Bioware... I came back; it is their job to retain me and others like me.

I was here when it went live. I have my party jawa that gets mailed to me every time I roll a new toon... and takes up space never to be used again. The way it was rolled out is one of the reasons I left the game in Dec 2013. The population wasn't all that bad back then - there were still 3+ instances on fleet at the time. I don't remember any merges during the time I played. EDIT: You know, after thinking about it, I I think I do remember at least one of the merges... at least vaguely. I also remember the long ques to get into game at one time. But I also remember not seeing much of a population difference either after the big surge and normal decline after the big launch.

If this were to occur, I could experience the game as I currently experience it and never, ever pay another dime to the game. I don't do pvp and I dont care much about ops - I do them occasionally when some friends are going and have a hole that needs filled. I do FPs, but I don't pug and have never, ever, used the group finder - I couldn't tell you right now where to find it or how to get myself qued... for anything. I have several level 70 toons and don't grind GC points on purpose - so don't really care about how fast they accumulate. I just do my thing and points rack up by themselves. I don't care about acquiring the highest-end gear - I see no point in it as another tier will just come along to replace it... e.g.: no reason to endlessly farm ops. I'd rather watch water boil or paint dry. I like the stories so would play those. I like to craft so would farm mats and craft. I like decorating my one SH. I like socializing and doing things with my guild. And I can name 10 other current players right now who think exactly the same as I do. So what you propose gives me an incentive to UNSUB rather than pay for what I do. Why pay money for what I can have for free?

This. I never could understand why the F2P model came out. There was a time when all MMOs where subscriber model... and that for a reason. I can understand trial offers to introduce new people to a game. The F2P model and cash shop makes very little sense to me (I understand the business reasons for the CM - but note the significant decreased quality of gaming it brings). If I like a game, I am going to pay my monthly fee to play it. If I get tired of the game, I am gone... with my monthly subscription. There isn't any in-between. I don't stop subscribing and then go preferred/F2P. The only time I am preferred status is when my sub comes up up suddenly and I am short cash til payday. As soon as payday hits, my sub is renewed. Therefore, I don't feel the least little bit of compassion for the "freeloaders"... ahem... F2P players who want to play an online game for nothing at the expense of others. I am part of the "subscribe or leave" crowd. Pay your $15.00 a month to support your game or get out of Dodge. I don't see any reason to offer incentives to freeloaders. Give 'em an inch today and they will demand a mile tomorrow as "their right". Heck, you see that kind of entitlement enough in real life, we don't need it here in our gaming community as well.

I came back... and I am running into someone almost every day who has recently returned to game like I did.

Really now... I guess what we have been experiencing is just imagination. I did look at your thread and, quit honestly don't have a clue what you are asking us to provide to support our claim on this issue.

What is this label that you speak of? I'm not sure that I have ever seen it.

Ive got a friend who is experiencing the same problem. Stuck on 99.37% for more than 24 hrs. Just since the 5.3a patch.

This is the way I played it. Put in about 1.5 million credits before a speeder dropped. that's when I quit. Got enough Certs to pick up everything I wanted off the vendor and still have 21 certs left over. Dont want the ugly rancor and don't want the pig. The only mounts that look decent are the BWLs... Don't even like the white one with the sail on the back (forget what its called). So, what I wanted was vendor stuff - one of the outfits, three of the weapons, the droid with the plate of coins, and the bar... and those I got. Don't know what I'm gonna do with the rest of my certs... or the smuggler/kingpin chips that keep dropping for me in the FPs. OTH I gave my my son-in-law 200k to buy chips (stack of 100 smuggler chips). He won a speeder on his first trip to the Kingpins and Mr. Piggy on his 2nd trip to the Kingpins. That's when he quit.

OUTSTANDING! Someone else who has played DAOC! I lOL when I see people refer to themselves as "veterans" when they date themselves all the way back to WoW... if that is so we must be dinosaurs, lol... because I date myself before DAOC.

I've made posts several times to this effect here. Although I do have some issues... as everyone does, I DO love this game and hope for its continued success. Though I can certainly identify with the OP... as I also have been playing MMOs for more than 3 decades.

This sums up my reaction exactly.

Bingo.

This happens to me every day as well. Never heard anyone else talk about it, so had no idea this was happening to everyone.

When I came back to game I wondered why this was still a thing. Used to happen often back in the day and still happens often enough to be annoying. Especially since toon appearance is obviously such a big thing in this game. I didn't know how prevalent it was til I read your post. Your friend has a good point.

The thing is very annoying. It breaks immersion and 9.99999 times out of 10 I don't care even a little bit about it. If I really want to know where DvL is at any given time, I can check on the GC screen. The only time I ever care in the least about it is when I am on my main and I have CXP packs to open... then I check it and track it if desired as stated. I would LOVE to have a way to turn the blasted thing off, it is that annoying. And no it is NOT a L2P issue... or a resize/reposition issue... it's an in-my-way issue and therefore a royal PIA that I tolerate because I can't do anything with it (I've gotten pretty fast on clicking the "X" - but having to do that is itself an annoyance for the above stated reason). We can toggle just about everything else in our UI, so why not this as well? I've actually seen others complain about this / ask how to turn it off in game as well... so it is much more prevalent than you might see here on the forum. So, agreed, give us a way to turn the blasted thing off. /signed.

Good post. Pretty spot on. I've been playing MMOs since the mid 90s. The reasons that I quit each one is stated aptly above. I started playing SWTOR shortly after release and left in 2013... because there were some things that I just couldn't stomach anymore. I came back in April and have been enjoying myself. I stay away from things that annoyed me horribly in the past - first among those being ops (mostly the people in them, rather than the event themselves... though I didn't care much for how those were engineered as well). ...And I am finding that I always have something to do. All that time in the past that I spent raiding, I am I am finding out now how much I missed out on. I've completed all my stories and have rolled new toons to go through some I did back then again. I am enjoying the planets/environment much more this time around. I am really enjoying traveling some of the old ground and remembering/taking a closer look. I have found a good guild community to spend time with that does not have an elitist "the endgame is the whole game" mentality. I am enjoying crafting gear that I can make into multiple outfits that my toons can wear (that is a feature that was unavailable back then). I like the changes to companions gear and role-wise. Still, on returning, there are some things I am not too keen on... so I limit my exposure to those parts of the game. I'm not impressed with any of the SH and the money sink involved. I did buy one, but have yet to completely unlock it. What's the point, really? To have a big museum that no one is going to look at? The same with guild ships actually... pretty underwhelming. When I left the game, these things were being talked about and I remember our guild starting to save for them. Since I've come back, I'm glad that I wasn't there to see my old guild blow a chunk of credits on something that underwhelming. Housing as part of a larger community was done extremely well in games like Dark Age of Camelot and, to a much lesser extent, LOTR. I like having neighbors and visiting them... getting to know them. It facilitates community in an MMO world. SWTOR missed the boat on this one. I don't - and never did - like RNG boxes. I have never, ever, purchased one and never plan to do so. They are a big waste of RL money and just a tactic to separate people from their hard earned cash. I hate the RNG mechanic period.... I would much rather grind or work for something that is a guaranteed reward... and then I would make the decision whether I wanted to invest the time required to get it - which is why I mostly work the reputation aspect of the game instead. If you are unhappy because you cannot find things to do in game, that is your fault... there is more than enough to do. If those things aren't your bag, then you SHOULD move on, but with such a limited perspective, you will always find yourself unhappy in any game - not just this one. I'm not sure how you found such dissatisfaction after only two months of play and have achieved everything you wanted in those two months.... MMOs are by definition a time-sink.

I like this. Well stated.... this is how all my characters lean to varying degrees. My Jedi characters are recognizing that the Jedi Code is just as insufficient as the Sith Code... hence a more grey outlook on the force.

In my mind - along with plenty of ingame evidence - the empire and the republic are very similar... just the empire is more honest about it. None of my Pub characters have gone light side - even the Jedi. My characters are all pragmatic to varying degrees. I just can't do the "goody goody" choices all of the time. God knows I tried. I've rolled more than one Jedi with the intention of going light side... only to find that the choices that make sense tend to have a red triangle next to them and the white star ones make me want to vomit too much to choose them. Malcolm dies every time. Acina was, and still is, my ally. My characters don't fully trust her... except to fully trust that she will be a self-serving sith. The republic leaders (Saresh and now Malcolm) always tend to want to cloak their self-serving actions in righteousness. I never could stand Saresh anyway and was so glad I got the chance to ventilate her cranial cavity at the Alliance base in front of the whole republic. My BH is pragmatic as well and finds a better understanding of the relationship with Acina. It was a harder choice with my Jedi, but they have been moving closer to the dark side for quite some time now... they have been becoming more and more disillusioned with the republic's actions and lies couched in righteousness. Even my Barsenthor who is torn between duty and views of the force as more of a grey thing, rather than black and white. For my sith characters, the choice is a no brainer... they can't stand the republic and love the empire.