jitsuo
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Posts posted by jitsuo
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Force camo
in PvP
Because it's a damn good gap closer. -
Push, guard, taunt, intercede and obliterate opens up some nice possibilities. Jump up and force push at the apex to reach targets up on ledges, push people to use them as free rides in huttball, push people where you want them to go, no lol 15 second aoe knockback.
Obliterate up small ledges, obliterate counter an knockback for instant teleport, leverage obliterate speed buff to negotiate a fire hazard etc.
I agree. Rage Juggies are incredibly amazing in Huttball. With 2 leaps, intercede, and Force Push, they're scary good ball carriers.
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As I understand it (sniper is my main) Our Primary attribute isn't being calculated into the shield probes strength (probe scales with healing bonus which we dont get from our primary stat..). If this gets changed it will be in a nice place
Other than that, the changes made to sniper for 1.2 are fantastic. Cover while rooted is a massive win for us, and was one of our major flaws.
I was of the opinion our defensive cooldowns were the weakest in the game while I was still a greenhorn, but having played sniper since early access I can tell you we are no where near as weak as people have been lead to believe.
Honestly, I have them picked as the next top class. They're beasts when played well and hard counter Marauders and PT's. Sorcerers get rolled up and tossed out by them and their interrupts wreck Mercs. If they get a way to counter stealth users, they'll be scary good.
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And how many 1v1's are there in a warzone anyway?
The merc is simply immortal and the most devastating thing in a warzone when not being focused. Ive seen level 17 mercs top damage charts in the lower bracket.
Singular battles in a group? A lot actually, there are quite a few times that a Merc and I can fight in a group with little interruption.
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marauder force charges you on ramp-
rocket punch off-stack tracers
marauder uses force camo, interrupts tracer stack, force charges back up-
jet blast-electro dart-re apply stacks-he tries running up the ramp, root him with unload-
at this point hes probably popped undying rage, merc can use power surge, instant heal himself, back into rotation.
obviously this situation would not be constant and would be mixed up with other variables/buffs, but the point is that foce camo will have already been used/wasted and that merc will be able to keep wailing on him with relative ease (not to mention how rediculously quickly mercs can stack tracers with a decent alacrity relic).
A good Marauder wouldn't Charge up the ramps unless he must
Rocket Punch barely works when a Marauder knows how to position himself.
Predation allows you to LOS with only 1 Tracer stack in the worst case scenario.
I doubt you'd do enough damage to cause a Mara to pop Undying in the time it takes to get up the ramp.
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in alderaan, voidstar, and most circumstances, yes. anywhere else where a major knockback can make a strategic difference, no. Ive destroyed marauders on my merc, and ive destroyed mercs on my marauder. the only time i didnt destroy a marauder in huttball, as far as i can remember, is when the bastard popped undying rage and stayed alive for the last few seconds till the match ended.
I'll respectfully disagree. The only time I believe a Merc would easily destroy a Marauder is if
1. Every knockback launches the Marauder off the ramp (Highly unlikely if the Mara is competent)
2. The Undying Rage, Force Camo, and Frenzy is on CD (Only after a close fight)
or
3. A knockback means certain death.
Every other time, the hardyness+ability to get back to the target with Force Camo+Frenzy+Charge gives me enough tools to beat a Merc.
Am I undefeated against them? Of course not, but I tend to engage them when I shouldn't. When I have all my CDs, a Merc is 100% dead.
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i dont? that was my point
He's talking about the Merc
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a decent merc will get out of the los so you cant charge back, and what if force camo is on a cool down?
Force Camo is a 45 second skill that I use to interrupt, counter KBs, or escape. If I'm tackling a Merc on the ramps, it's not on CD.
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Im usually top damage on both my merc and my marauder. I can tell you that IF he is a true tracer spammer (more than 3 tracers consecutively), then he will be destroyed with out a doubt. But any decent merc can take down a marauder if skilled enough (although honestly, if its like alderaan, the merc will have a much much tougher time).
Again, mercs have the ability to instant cast heal, root with both their knock back AND unload, stun, and cc.
If a Marauder and a Merc are both the same skill, the Marauder will win. You have to know this.
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I guess its a case of practice on both sides of the fence. I only have an alt merc that I play for giggles. Never had any real trouble knocking back anyone where I wanted them. hell I would even get cocky and drag them close the the fire pit. while they are trying to avoid being knocked off I instead knocked them in the pit.
good times.
but yeah...screw trying to face marauders ANY where else in any other scenario (good ones that is)
Sounds about right to me, each side has l2p issues
Good Mercs can pump out a LOT of damage, great ones can do it even with a class interrupting them, but if I let a great Merc freecast into a group, my team is dead. I'd rather be kept busy whilst keeping a Merc busy than just letting him melt my team.
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Instant knockback isnt hard to direct (with good latency). If one knock back fails he has a backup. Odds are in their favour unless they arent very good.
Well the first KB is difficult to avoid because it's a far knockback.
The Rocket Punch knockback, on the other hand, is easy to avoid. The only time a Merc moves is when he's positioning himself to try that knockback. I can avoid it 1/2 of the time. Luckily, each time he succeeds, my Charge is usually up
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your forgetting the mercs knock back every 9 seconds, he will always have an answer for your charge. All that you achieve here is blowing force camo, and wasting time.
The only time you are going to get your damage off, is If the merc stuffs up his kb, or is occupied with someone else.
The merc doesnt need to kill you. Hes controlling you.
Merc still has to knock me off the ramp. He's not going to do it 100% of the time, it's pretty easy to walk back from the RP knockback. Either way, the Merc is as good as dead.
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From my observation good Marauders (and melee in general) will avoid fighting a Merc on a ramp because it's just a heavily favored matchup for the Merc. If you're serious about fighting one on the ramp, you need a way to knock/pull him down, not theorycraft about how you're supposed to withstand a class with extremely good KB abilities while fighting on somewhere with about an inch of room. Not to mention you're fighting near a fire pit, which can cause instant death to you if you get tossed the wrong way.
I have played against plenty of top Marauders on my server and they'll usually charge you once to see if you suck and can get an easy kill. After you Rocket Punch them down, they'll realize you don't suck and just avoid fighting you up there and look for someone else to kill.
Of course, on flat terrain this fight is totally different, but Huttball matches outnumber the other two maps put together for Empire players, and even Alderaan has a pretty good ramp in the middle turret.
Run up the ramp to the Merc. 1st KB is countered with a Charge. 2nd KB is countered with Force Camo. I will then either LOS until Charge is back up or walk back to them if they didn't knock me off the ramp. The Merc is then easy pickings. I LOVE killing mercs on the ramps.
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Decent players will win no matter what, but im just referring to the short moment after you pop a marauder off on of the bridges on huttball and then stack tracers immediately. I know it works, because ive done the same thing on my merc. The class is ridiculously easy, you probably just dont know how to kite or do anything besides grav round spam.
If you get popped off the bridge in Huttball you do one of two things
1. Charge back
2. Force Camo--->LOS--->Charge back
If you lose to a TM merc as a Marauder, you're terrible
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The ONLY change to tracer spam in 1.2 is that it will do 10% less damage. They are reducing the base heat of tracer missile and removing the talent that reduces its heat cost making tracer effectively the exact same heat. They are increasing the cast time of tracer while adding a talent that REDUCES cast time in place of the heat reduction talent effectively keeping tracer at the exact same cast time....
They are also significantly increasing the number of times we'll be able to use Unload. Guess what? Unload is the #1 dps skill Arsenal mercs have. They are also increasing the damage of Heatseeker. Guess what? Heatseeker is the highest single hit skill we have. If anything, Arsenal mercs are getting a buff in 1.2 while changing the mechanics a bit in favor of more unloads instead of tracers. The changes are pretty genius if you ask me.
Bring on 1.2 so we can DO MORE DAMAGE and SPAM LESS TRACER. Then what will people cry about when we kill them even faster?
This. I never have a problem with Tracer Mercs, I actually wanted other skills buffed so we wouldn't see the 1 button heroes in the WZs. Good to see that they should be able to thrive against an opponent who knows where his interrupt is
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The Merc can instant Concussion Missile too (without talents) followed by a stun.
I really don't see how the Marauder would have a problem with the Sorc in this case. I'd think the Marauder on the Sorc will finish the Sorc first just because Sorcs have less survivality than a Merc (if Merc uses Energy Shield, it wouldn't be close), and then the side with the 2 people win pretty comfortably. Both ranged DPS are probably dead in this case but that's not the point. Between their considerable survivality and that TMs continue to stick around to haunt the enemy after the Mercs is dead, they can usually at least get you a draw compared to any other guy the enemy could've paired with, unless it's something like MaraX2 or Mara+Sin versus Mara+Merc, but I think those two combinations will easily beat almost any combination of 2 players. If your partner isn't a Mara or a Sin, the Merc seems to be the safest one to pick.
But Mercs aren't hardy, they're VERY squishy. A Sorcerer has an instant cast Shield and can afford to kite.
Mercs can either kite or do damage, not both. A merc would have a Mara with 100% uptime on him, a Sorcerer can afford to run and gun.
If both WW and Concussion Missle land and the Merc and the Sorcerer get 30 yards away, the Sorcerer can keep them at 30 yards with the Marauder doing 0 DPS, the Merc can't unless he wants to sacrifice almost all of his damage. The Sorcerer can also Force Speed+Slow to get distance after the Marauder Charges in, the Merc can't.
A Marauder can easily kill both a Merc and a Sorcerer, but he will kill the Merc faster and with less damage done to him because he can always stay on the Merc.
The Merc always dies faster because the enemy will be able to stay on him 95% of the time whereas a Sorcerer can keep the enemy off of him while doing damage. He can't kite, he can't LOS, he can't move. That's why mobile ranged classes are better teammates. TM-ers are good in 4+ person groups, but definitely not in the top 4 classes to use.
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Help doesn't necessarily imply 2on1.
Let's say your side is Merc + Marauder, other side is Sorc + Marauder.
Merc shoots 2 missiles on the enemy Merc, does 2K damage.
Sorc shoots 2 FLs on enemy Merc, does 2K damage (even though this requires 6 seconds, we'll just pretend they're the same).
Merc's side's Marauder charge roots the Sorc's side Marauder. Now from a damage point of view both side are exactly equal. There's several scenario this can play out.
If the two Marauder start fighting it out in the middle, with both ranged class assisting their Marauder, then the Merc side will win because Mercs do more damage than Sorc when left alone, not to mention the Sorc's side Merc starts with an armor debuff.
If the Marauders just run past each other after the root to kill the ranged class, both Marauders generally can kill whoever they're fighting fine. Usually, it takes less time for a Marauder to kill a Sorc than a Merc, but we'll assume both finish their ranged at the same time while taking identical damage. However, if the Merc manages to refresh the tracer stacks, then the Sorc side now starts the Marauder versus Marauder match with 5 stacks of TM (he started with 4, so if it refreshed at all he must have 5), giving a considerable edge to the Merc side's Marauder.
For any other class if they get 2 GCDs on you, you take say 2K damage but that's it. There's no lingering effect that weakens you as a result of those 2 GCDs. But 2 TMs do 2K damage and make you take about +10% damage, so it's going to hurt you more than any other attack that does 2K. Thus, from the enemy's point of view, they might as well attack whoever has the TM stacks on because it's an easy kill, and this would indirectly protect the Merc.
TM stacks are really a silent killer. They can kill you even after the Merc is dead since they're powerful enough to swing a fight you could've won into a loss against someone else. That's why I consider them strong. If just going by kills/deaths, there's nothing very special about Mercs.
Interesting argument, but I counter with this example.
Marauder/Sorc vs. Marauder/Merc Sorc is Hybrid and Merc is Arsenal, Maras are both Anni
The Marauders focus first on the ranged dealers (squishiest classes die the fastest). The first Marauder eats 2 TMs as he moves in and interrupts the 3rd one, 2nd Marauder eats a full channeled FL and a Crushing Darkness.
KBs come from both sides. The Mara on the TM-er Charges back instantly and the Mara on the Sorcerer is stuck rooted while the Sorcerer channels another FL into him, the Marauder then Charges to interrupt the last tick.
Merc uses the 2nd KB, Mara Force Camos back to him and continues DPS. Sorcerer Insta-WW's---->stun at the end, Force Speeds away, and kites with his slow, attacking with Shock, CL(if Wrath procced), Affliction, and Death Field.
By the time the Mara on the Sorcerer gets back to the Sorcerer, the Merc should be close to dead, his stacks of TM falling off, and had most of his damage neutralized
The problem with Mercs is that they have NO mobility. Their damage is all cast times. They have TM, which is easily interrupted, and no mobility so they cannot keep a class "busy"
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If you're talking about the Huttball ramp there's usually very little space you can hide from the KB. I know it's possible but it's just not something that can be reilably done. Not every location has the sandbags or whatever those things that stop you from falling down.
The problem with Merc is that TM synergize well with every other class. Say you're a Marauder, you run toward a Merc. He fires 2 TMs on you as you're running in (this is pretty optimistic if you didn't charge), which is okay, except another Marauder saw you on the way in so he charges and roots you. Now you probably eat 2 more TMs before you get out of the root, not to mention your mirror match is fighting you with a 20% armor debuff, so the enemy should be able to win comfortably if this started out as an even fight. Having 4 stacks of TM (2 missiles) pretty much swings a normally 50/50 fight to at least 60/40 (you're pretty much taking 10% more damage from anyone) so the enemy team might as well protect the Arsenal Merc just because those 4-5 stacks of TM really makes life a lot easier for anyone else too.
Mercs aren't strong because they're a good 1v1 class (they're not). They're strong because they're a very strong class in virtually any kind of group fights. As a Darkness Assassin 5 stacks of Tracers bothers me the most compared to any other debuff, not because I'm in danger of losing to a Merc (can beat them rather comfortably), but that a Marauder or a mirror match will definitely beat me if I start down 25% armor. Now if you do get them 1on1, of course you should kill them ASAP. They're pretty helpless without help, but the fact TM stacks makes the recipient an easy kill means you're likely to see a lot of people coming to *help* just so that they can get an easy kill.
The problem is that you're assuming he's going to 2v1 you every time. If I'm igoing after a TM-er in a group fight, I'm not gonna wade through the group and I'm bringing a friend. If he's casting a TM when I go in, I will probably Charge just because it's on a 12s CD. Usually by the 2nd KB if charge isn't back, it has a small amount of time. If I'm knocked off a ramp then I LOS until charge is back, if Charge isn't back then I can walk back and take him out.
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I noticed there's a trend to say Arsenal Mercs are weak as if that makes you good or something.
Mercs are not hard to beat but they're still a very strong class in WZ. I don't know where this '1on1' thing comes from because Mercs don't 1on1 against most people anyway. As a ranged class they're usually the guys hanging out way in the back. Especially for a class without stealth this means you absolutely will get pummeled by TM if they decide to hit you first, and you can't leap to counter that because then you get hard countered by a Jet Boost.
I agree with the fact that Mercs are face melters if unfocused. Problem is that they're VERY easy to counter if you focus them. If they're on a ramp then I will Charge to them and position myself for the KB. Once the KB comes then I will Force Cloak back to them. The Rocket Punch knock back concerns me very little, 80% of the time I can make it back in time to interrupt their Grav/TM. I wouldn't fight a TM-er and have his 3 friends intercept me because I wouldn't Charge 4 people by myself
With my team vs. his team, I will either pick a healer or a Grav/TM-er to shut down. If someone already has one, I will get the other. -
LOL you're kidding right?. So you do an interrupt and expect him to wait 4 seconds to do anything again? Duh...idiot...what about a power shot, or heat missiles or rail shot during this time? Guess what you can't stop it, and chances are you will use your interrupt on something that is not TM. And all this time you can't do much in the way of damage because you are a Vanguard and the more shooting you do the greater the chance you will miss an interrupt. I won't even mention the fact that most Vanguards don't even buy the faster riot strike, so you are looking at a 6 second delay...not 4. So you run around like an idiot "hoping" to interrupt his attacks while he whoops up on you. And by the way...how are you going to deal withe the knock back? You can probably count on 2 TM's before you get back to him, say hello to a potential 7k damage which should almost kill you by then. I guess the Vanguard will just do his self-heal...oh wait he doesn't get one.
So basically, you don't know she-ite because you don't play a Vanguard and it shows.
As far as the stun thing goes, in PVE damage breaks stuns, I did not know that changes for PVP. So yeah I will give you credit for that one but you're still a FHP.
You do an interrupt and he is locked out of TM for 4 seconds, the CD on the interrupt in 8 seconds. Power shot is nothing compared to your Thermal Detonator or Rail Shot or even Rocket Punch (Vanguard equivalent).
If you're interrupting anything besides TM, you're playing stupidly. If you miss an interrupt because you're DPSing, you're EXTREMELY stupid. It is a 4 second delay no matter what, as it says on the torhead ability counter.
The knockback is dealt with by using Grapple.
I play a Vanguard, I also PvP with one all the time. I guarantee you can't say the same. If you interrupt Tracer Missle, you can do more damage to him than he can do to you?.
How do I know this?
Because I do it every time I face a Merc or Commando. When one or both of my stuns are on CD I can still win most of the time.
Your arguments talk like Vanguards don't do any damage while interrupting, but in reality a VG does more damage than most in PvP. My Rail Shot does more damage than TM ever can, same with my Thermal Detonator. Rocket Punch can equal the damage and Flame Burst is no joke. Without TM a Merc can't hope to beat me in a DPS race
If he's using Heet Seeking Missles without any stacks of TM on me, which he won't have due to my interrupts, he's losing DPS. The only move that hits hard when TM is interrupted is Unload/Full Auto and, with me interrupting his TMs, it's severly gimped without his proc.
Face it, you're terrible if you lose to a Merc. You haven't shown me any way that a Merc could beat you besides you telling me that you don't know how stuns work, how interrupts work, or how to restrain yourself from not interrupting useless skills.
You probably waste the interrupt on their Flamethrower/Pulse Cannon.
EDIT: Hey, you obviously have problems with Mercs, I'm trying to tell you how to beat them easily. If you don't wanna take the advice, that's fine, I'll just destroy you if I ever meet you in the WZs. If you can't kill an Arsenal Merc, you shouldn't be able to kill anything that you don't have a 50% health handicap on.
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Sages. And he was complaining about shadows/assassins. Read the entire context, and you would see that.
And again, however, spamming TT is really, really, really bad. You want procs from other abilities before even considering casting it once.
Edit: And repost it however many times you like. It won't change the context.
You're 100% wrong. He was talking about Telekinetic Throw spammers, which are only Sages.
You have to spam TT if you use the Hybrid Telekinetics/Balance (the best specs are these ones) to GET your procs. You need a Presence of Mind proc from TT to get the benefits of damage.
Please learn your mechanics
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That is telekinetic throw. But you can't spam it. It's 6-second cooldown
Telekinetic Balance
This talent in the Balance tree reduces Telekinetic Throw CD to zero. 99% of Sages/Sorcerers have this variant of the talent, which is why they can spam Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw.
Do you PvP at all?
I'm reposting this response because you can't seem to read. Telekinetic throw can be spammed by Sages.
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Stuns are not going to help a Vanguard for much, and that's what this thread is about...Vanguards. We get a 2.5 sec stun and a 4 second cryo, both which break on damage. So they are only a minor annoyance to the Merc, because they are short term and will break when you hit him. When you burn your two stuns, you are only left with a 6 second refresh riot strike to interrupt his missiles. Any Merc with half a brain will spam you with missiles and watch you melt. Have fun watching yourself die as the 3000 pt. crits roll by. I'm sure any Merc can back be up on this.TM refresh = 1.5 seconds
Riot Strike refresh = 6 seconds (unless you buy tactics points to make it 4)
You cannot interrupt all his missiles. Vanguard stuns are near worthless in PVP as they break on damage and are only usable once per fight. Eventually he is going to kill you.
If this is true, why can I (and every other class) as a PT beat Mercs easily.
http://www.torhead.com/ability/eOJ0YyO/quell
Locks out TM for 4 seconds, you need 4 seconds to kill for the Interrupt to refresh
STUNS don't break on damage
http://blackrabbit2999.blogspot.com/2011/12/swtor-resolve-and-crowd-control-pvp.html
A quote from this:
Stun: an ability of a short term duration that prevents a target from taking action regardless of the amount of damage taken
http://www.torhead.com/ability/aI8lmsH/carbonize
^This Stuns for 2.5 seconds
http://www.torhead.com/ability/9GX16Xs/electro-dart
^This Stuns for 4 seconds
So you interrupt a cast. 4 seconds later he begins casting another TM. You let the cast bar fill for another second and you Stun him for 2.5 seconds. .5 seconds later your Interrupt is ready and you hit it again. After the 4 seconds are done, you let him cast TM for another second and cast your 4 second stun. When it ends your interrupt is ready again.
5 Interrupts. You have no clue of your class mechanics.
After at LEAST 20 uninterrupted seconds of DPS from one of the best burst DPS classes in the game (PT/BG) you can't tell me they'll win. Especially because you can still use your interrupts.
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Who the heck would spam a non-spammable ability?
You're silly.
Do you mean disturbance spammers?
Telekinetic Balance
This talent in the Balance tree reduces Telekinetic Throw CD to zero. 99% of Sages/Sorcerers have this variant of the talent, which is why they can spam Force Lightning/Telekinetic Throw.
Do you PvP at all?
With my team vs. his team, I will either pick a healer or a Grav/TM-er to shut down. If someone already has one, I will get the other.
Force camo
in PvP
Posted
How many Ranged attacks do Marauders have? How about Guard?