True. But we are not "out in the world" we are on swtor pvp forums. And if you do not "like" my replies to the "personal" attacks other posters throw at me, it is not my problem.

What has your anecdote and subjective experience of "fun" have to do with game balance?

'tis true tho . I am not diminishing any of my team members value, i think they are exceptional players, otherwise i wouldn't play with them. But, especially you, know what i am talking about and that it is true.

They are a strong class, but i did not complain about it. In fact i don't complain about anything really... overpowered /underpowered etc, patches come and go. Don't care that much about the changes they bring. Thanks. I am trying to let other players know that they can improve, without having to wait for some magical patch from Bioware.

When "all" the players interested in pvp transfered to said server, it kinda does. And stop acting there are only english ppl because its an english server, lol. We have spanish, french , turkish etc etc. Players came here for pvp, not to form an all english community. We even had 1k+players in queue to log . Its a pretty big server. Playing 2-3h a day for ~4 days a week is hard:rolleyes: So invalid excuse. There are over 100 fully geared players on the server that i alone have seen, and many more close to that.So invalid excuse. Id say it is around 50-50%, the times we meet good teams and the times we meet teams that are thrown together on fleet channel or weak teams. Having that high a win ratio and rating, is not a result of farming weak teams. Invalid excuse. Our team rooster is : Jugg tank, assassin off-tank, mercenary healer, operative healer, concealment operative, pyro powertech, marauder, sniper/rage jugg. When we actually get to play as the main team, often we use replacements and still maintain the win ratio. Other good teams use 2 sorc dps and healer and merc tracer guys... Invalid excuse. . lol no. I have single handedly been responsible for more wins than any other player on their own in the team.Me in the team is a big bonus. invalid excuse . Some do,there are bad players everywhere... but there are about 6-7 other guilds that are good and offer good competition. So, invalid excuse. . There you go. How can you use this as an excuse again? It's not like we use magic, we play with the same game mechanics as everyone. Thats my point, l2p and "you" can be successful too, and don't give me that bull that you are really skilled but lack a team, because if you are really skilled you would be on one of the top teams on your server, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. . I disagree, if you make a claim about your skill to players that are not playing with or against you, you do need to prove it. Your "word" isn't enough. I do bring out valid arguments, on everything i say. People just keep singing the same whine song. My rating is proof that i have a better understanding of the game that people with considerable lower rating. Rating is the only accurate way to measure someone's skill. And you do not have to be above a certain number, all you have to be is among the best teams on your server. Hearsay and anecdotes are not a valid tool to measure someone's skill. Can you please tell us again how the game is holding you back at 1200 rating?and not in one of the best teams on your server?

I did get that, and i will repeat myself, but the following i have already said, repeatedly across multiple threads. Classes have different skill curves. So what!? That is not a game balance issue. You can not give all classes the same skill curve, without sacrificing the class individuality and role. And switching class does not actually improve a players performance. The apparent increase, is superficial ... it is cross-class and it only affects players who are not that good at the game overall. Average player switching to an easier class, will still be outplayed by good players playing the same class, and good players playing every other class. His "performance" will only improve in relation to other average players who play a more difficult class. Balancing the game around bad game-play (average players) is impossible.

Still inconsistent and having double standards; not to mention avoiding saying anything concrete. So i guess i am done with you. Check the last few pages if you need references.

I am telling you to stop blaming game balance, when it is obvious that your biggest problem atm is your gear, and gear gap. There is no other class that can take the spot of a well played concealment operative (scoundrel), you are not competing for a spot against other classes, you are competing with your ability to play the class. As far good teams are concerned. Until my team met me, they did not even think of taking a concealment operative in the team. But when they DID meet me, they made a spot... because there is no other class that could replace me. (regardless of that classes "driver") p.s. every class needs a good team. If they want to get anywhere. You can put the best marauder /pyrotech /whatever... in a "bad" team... it will still not win them games

I am sorry, havent you seen the "million pages" thread of whines on sorc being underpowered and unable to compete?. Aren't ppl who play sorc whine in this thread? Are you looking for a class in particular?... Are you trolling? Until skill can violate game mechanics, it can not compensate for balance. All players are subjected to the same game mechanics. When some can and some can't, it is not longer a balance problem but a player problem. Can you imagine what buffing the class so that "average" Joe, has a performance increase of whatever? Godlike mode for ppl who can play the class properly and succeed with it now; and "average Joe" would still whine because even tho his performance has increased, so is the performance of everyone else... and his position on the pvp "food chain" is unchanged... and teams will still not pick them over better players

If you can't play a sorc and admire a sniper, play a sniper. But you will lose sprint and healing, and bubbles etc. You chose to play an utility class, then cry you are not specialized in damage?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=498125&page=38 From a sorc healer specific thread ->towards the end of the page, and on the next one. That was taken a couple of days ago, i heard he is 2500+ now. (ive been slacking allot) For more you will have to wait until later tonight when people log on. But even this is enough to invalidate your claim that they do not exist.

So far its the best Bioware can do. When x-servers get here... we will see. But since "everyone and his dog" transferred to TOFN, it is reasonable to assume nothing will change.

First of all, ranking is not an opinion. Second of all, yes some classes have minor issues.... that will never change in an MMO. So if he is top ranked you tell him : see the class problems does not prevent you to compete, you should be happy about that. If you have any reasonable ideas on how to tweak the class please let "us" know. If he is not top ranked you tell him to L2P, because there are ppl who are top ranked with that class. The class is not a glass cannon without the cannon. The class is a glass cannon with incredible battlefield control and good damage but not incredible burst. You traded part of the cannon for control. It is also a support class with off-heal capability and should be treated as such

I did not say "hang in there" until you get better geared, or until the stars align giving you extraordinary circumstances or whatever. I said "hang in there" until you actually learn to play the class properly. <---Rank 1, concealment dps, in best team EU. I have what, 98% win rate? (pls fix disconects on my team mates). And trust me, the ability to turn the game's outcome in your favor based on your skill...in game-breaking moments is incredibly rewarding.

I am not. Different classes are different. You need to utilize your strengths better and undermine theirs. Also, dps sorcs should "never" be guarded. So, your job as a dps sorc is not dependent of guard. You don't have to. Your problem is focus fire, being attacked by multiple opponents, in that situation it is unreasonable to expect to not die, etc... without help from your team mates.

Im sorry, did you miss the screenshots of high rated players playing the so called "underpowered" classes that are supposedly impossible to compete with?

You can heal. ...and sprint, knockback etc are defensive cooldowns. Not front of the line defensive cooldowns, but battlefield control, kiting cooldowns. And your biggest burst attack as a dps pvp sorc, is death field which is instant, along with shock and dots, which are also instant. If you just stay there chaining force lightning, you are doing it wrong.

To long of a post to quote, and for the most part you were just saying stuff without having a point. However what i want to tell you is : hang in there, keep practicing it will get better. I don't even remember the last time i had a problem killing someone in 1v1, and if you play your class right not only you will not be a detriment to your team, but you will be an important addition that will give your team access to more varied and powerful tactics and strategy.

I am telling "everybody" (people who need help, who need to know they should not give up and keep learning because they are nowhere near close to the class capability), that while classes do have problems... they are nowhere near as big as they claim. And nothing is making it impossible to compete. The #1 problem is that most players never bothered to actually learn their class. Not to mention try and play all classes the same, where each class has a different role. Classes have strengths and weaknesses learn to utilize them better. For example : when someone fails at TETRIS, and start whining and complaining.... do you tell them that they need to nerf TETRIS? or do you tell them that they need to practice more and improve... you know L2P.

Your view of class performance is narrow. Not everything is a dps /hps race. You have to take into account class utility, cc, synergy with other classes etc. For example. If you make all classes be capable of same burst same dps, then classes with more utility will have a massive advantage... classes with the capability to heal when needed =massive advantage. You can not balance one niche of the class in 1 particular role to equality with all others, without taking into account all the other factors. "Hey look we all do the same damage and burst, but i have invisibility aoe cc and can heal, where as you can only do damage." Balanced right?

I am not always right, but if someone thinks i am not... i would like him to prove it. Given sufficient proof i will change my opinion accordingly. I welcome the opportunity to grow and improve, but you can not reasonably expect me to accept unsubstantiated claims as being accurate and true.

I know what this thread is about. Thing is : class power and performance is relative, relative to other classes. Which is how it should be. Now the problem is that, perceived class power and performance is also Subjective.. Some players can not properly estimate a class's power and performance. When you say, "the class" is not powerful enough to compete... because "this and that" and yet there are players who are at the top of the competition with that very class; it makes your statement wrong. Biggest problem is that perceived class power and performance is subjective first , and relative second. And give you a false premise for your opinions and judgments. As long as you are not capable to play your class to maximum potential you will not have an accurate view of the classes performance and power.

Are you 5yo?

So, the laws of physics are different for "other ppl" ? (game mechanics in game) This wasn't a talk about class vs class. This was a talk about players playing the same class, and how the existence of very successful players prove that the class has the tools to be successful, and it is the players problem for "his" inability to play the class correctly. Same as... some ppl cant drive. Is it the cars fault? / some ppl can't swim. Is it the waters fault?

Prove it.