well, that is how I play. But I'd like to spend time doing interesting things on my character I've already levelled on, done things on and obtained things like level 50 speeders and dare I say it gotten attached to etc instead of letting her be parked somewhere while I'm forced to have to play other characters simply because goals were accomplished so quickly no matter how much I took my time to explore and not skip over? I'm not the only one who feels this way. If you're going to make a new game, why force players to follow a narrow path you lay down instead of catering your game to players? Choice in what you do makes you feel good about what you're doing. Being forced/not-so-subtley channeled to do something doesn't.

now if only there was some way there could be a game with fun content that makes you feel like you're working towards something and that work keeps you entertained while you're doing it and the reward you're working towards makes those times when it feels like work all worthwhile. And there was enough variety of things to work towards with a variety of things to do so it didn't feel so rigid and could take you to a variety of locations where there were other people. And there was a way to make a grind be something different to spamming /1 until you get fed up, cut your losses and log out. I don't know. Something that involves you enough and keeps you interested enough to make you overlook flaws/bugs for long enough until you lose patience. but yeah. too grindy and you're right back to where Aion failed.

And THAT is where the design flaw lies. Most of the content becomes irrelevant. Very little is repeatable meaning there is very little to do and very little variety, and doesn't have the longevity to make it until next major content patches/expansion packs.

People are already asking to be able to solo them with a team of companions instead of players. Not because of logs or fear of getting kicked, purely because of the sheer lack of effort into flashpoints beyond the bare bones of their creation, as in accessibility, utilities like logs and parsers etc. Which one do you think hurts more people on a more regular basis? I like the idea of personal logs which can be activated to being visible to the group by the majority of the group when it's needed. If things are going fine and you don't need to see what's going on with everyone, then, well, you don't need to. But if things aren't working and something's going on it can really help to see what's going on instead of simply guessing and trying over and over and wiping over and over because you don't really know. And while it's only sort of relevant, I played wow before recount was popular (don't even think it was invented) and after. Nothing changed. Except for one thing: it raised people's awareness about the game in general and bridged a major gap between casuals and hardcores. People struggling after recount were struggling before it and the result was exactly the same, but they didn't have a meter to blame.

hey remember the days before Windows and it was ALL MSDOS, and not just loading up MSDOS instead of Windows for gaming, and colored screens and it was all text and there were no graphics as such save for white dots on a screen and being totally blown away you were actually using a computer? actually kind of sums up Bioware's approach to this game. Why progress when the good old days were just so good although you can take away what people have whinged about but not replace it with anything to make up for what's been taken away? Why look to these dang modern games which are progressing and taking on new directions and ask why they are and why they include content and why some restrictions are there to encourage working towards over time?

yeah, just hardcores.... never mind that hardcore altoholics are the only ones being catered to. I'm thinking you haven't actually understood a lot of the posts in the thread.

qft. I've paid to play a trailer when I was promised a game

Seems to be the truth. Definitely explains why we see loading screens where they shouldn't be there and it's not a new area or new server/instance

No, I don't see why the bulk of development of the game and player focus should go on levelling at the expense of other things to do. There should be more to a game than levelling. Read a book, put it down until you feel like reading it again. Play an MMO reach level cap, stop playing until you feel like creating a new character. And when you've done that to your hearts content stop playing and wait for content patches. I don't think that's a good design model.

1) Yes, but instead of simply reskinning it and adding voiceovers and cut-scenes, making it faster (much, much faster than other games) and yet still not overcoming the basic, intrinsic limitations of this system and instead compounding the problem by making it all happen in Fast Forward they haven't really broken any new ground. 2) That is how most MMO's came to be. Why say it in a way that sounds like you're making fun of it? Or what's so horrible about not wanting to make a game but rather discuss one you're playing? Why should each and every idea for this game be purely up to the developers with no feedback or ideas coming from players/customers?

I did. And that's what I'm saying. MMO's aren't really like books. People don't go back to planets lower than their level and that's one massive failing of the current system where the majority of the world is left to rot until you make a new character and you once again pass through (no, spending a day or two on a planet isn't a long time in a game you play for years). Reaching the end of a book means the book is read. Reaching max level in an MMORPG should not mean the bulk of your playing experience is over. Also, I didn't realize that about Everquest. I guess it seems older MMORPG's are actually getting creative and using technology and thinking to overcome obstacles existing in the traditional MMORPG model and doing it successfully, even if world of warcraft didn't. And specialisations? Well, appealing to a wide audience should be a goal. And giving players the option of doing things other than what their "specialty" is keeps players playing. A game of SWTOR's calibre shouldn't need to specialize. They should have rich content for all players. Well, OK, ALL is impossible. But as wide a variety as they can, and it's a dream of MMO devs to be able to cater to player's wants without being detrimental to other players. Considering what's going into creating this game, that goal should be achievable for SWTOR. Far more than the vast majority of other games can, at least. The trouble with SWTOR is that they're doing nothing but copy a model other games are moving away from, or altering to better cater to players as it becomes possible for them to do so. Until they break out of this pattern of thinking, SWTOR will constantly be chasing to catch up and always be behind in terms of innovation.

Not sure it is speculation. The Founder title over their head and conversations tend to give it away

yeah you're right. I must be blind not to be noticing all those multitudes on Tattoine and Alderaan. If only I have been paying more attention I would have realized those were players I was tripping over or bumping into whenever I tried to walk

nvm the difference is that the Rakata ancient teleporters are all in caves I guess so things load while you're walking out of the transporter through a tunnel and quicktravel points are in the open world where it isn't hidden.

Well it doesn't seem like Bolstering for pvp has destroyed the game. Computers have changed since MMORPG's were first designed. Servers and data storage systems have changed since then. Why make levelling where experience and character level is the main source of data storage just because it used to be necessary? Why make the levelling process take so long and be a long grind only to make planets become obselete if it's no longer necessary? Why stay locked into a system where hitting max-level makes the majority of the game irrelevant rather than opening up? Is it really necessary for character progression and the addition of further skills to only happen when levelling anymore? Does a tutorial phase deliberately need to be dragged out for so long before you can start progressing your character in other ways? Is it necessary to have the community all split up in varying levels to this extent anymore instead of a quick levelling process which serves as basic tutorials and then opening up the game in general?

In case you haven't noticed... go back and read posts about population. There are some in this very thread And posts about people having friends in the game and having a utility that lets those friends play together. well I guess our playing experiences are different then. I still have friends who ask to run instances etc with me.

yeah, but you said those changes happened FOR LFG at the same time when they didn't and that these changes ever were specifically FOR lfg (never mind that zones where quest givers were aren't even there in their original form anymore), and even included things that haven't happened yet. And also, those quests weren't even THERE when LFG was in-game and cross-server (the original quests and NPC's? Some are still in-game and haven't even moved, so I don't know what you're talking about). They came in for cataclysm. And, Alliance doing Wailing Caverns? Only if you had someone to run you through and could stealth, you know, being in Ogrimmar made it kind of hard. And changing some quest-giver NPC's is NOT the same as redesigning dungeons. You might want to research wow from a better site. And include some of what you find in a thread about wow instead of a LFG for SWTOR thread.

yes it's this one again. 20 pages of almost all the same posts explaining the same facts over and over again and pointing out the blatantly obvious.

Hurts to know Rift is better than SWTOR in terms of making the game player-friendly and accessible and in many ways is more advanced.

I don't want cross-server LFG because I want the game to fail. I want it because I like the flashpoints. I like running them. I like being able to play with people. Some of the best content in the game I've seen has been in flashpoints. But I can't run them. Can't get a full group together to start one, let alone finish one. You don't see it as a big deal, but to me it means I can't play the game in a way I love to. I barely done a single one since I hit 50. And in the last week I've given up trying to. And the alternatives which are open and available to me don't justify me keeping a sub open. Sorry. I don't like to play a game to stand around in fleet spamming and feeling bad or frustrated that I can't get anything done. I'm glad you guys are and have no need for cross-real LFG, I really am. But I'm not liking the game without it. Also, realms aren't set by hardcore operation realm, casual operation realm, flashpoint dungeon runner realm, social realm, people with a long time for the game and deep commitment realm, peak-hour realm, off-peak hour realm, crafting and GTN/credit realm, completionist/altoholic realm etc. All realms are made up of a variety of people doing different things at various times and people's needs and playstyles vary. Finding someone that's trying to do the same thing as you are or similar when you are (even if you are willing to wait as long as you can) might very well mean having to look cross-realm. As does finding people at all, let alone of the correct roles. Also Terminova, those changes to quest-giver NPC's didn't actually happen until after the cataclysm. And that's what the cataclysm expansion essentially was - redesigning the entire old world and almost remaking the game. The SM/Scholo ones haven't happened yet. Those two are for MOP. And I'll call your bluff on the Wailing Caverns one. There's never been an Alliance quest-giver for that dungeon before LFG. How could there be? Do you really think the game would send you into the middle of an enemy city? Confused about this entire post actually - every aspect of it. Why post something like this?

I know this might sound stupid, but would it be too different and too never-done-before to keep learning abilities after max-level (Skyrim? never played it) and through missions where you actually train an ability instead of clicking on an NPC's vendor list?

you mean where there are 85 soon-to-be 90 levels instead of 50? I just got the impression that OP was talking about what he's seen in SWTOR and his feelings playing SWTOR :confused:

Did they? Why? They were already instanced on their own servers and hosted cross-server players, just not groups made up of people from different realms I know they did for the cross-server raid finder, they created a third difficulty. But I've never heard anything about anything like this for dungeons

Have any so far not been? Also, those 5 hour sessions were when the game was brand new, everything was new, it was the holidays, people were levelling etc. Not many people continue to play 5 hour sessions once that's done and initial grinds are done every day.

ummm, all the flashpoints I've done have been accessed from Fleet... so does this argument mean anything in swtor?