Thank you. Finally, someone gets it ...and lo and behold, another long-time player of MMOGs who has basically "been there, done that." My experience is exactly the same. I've been a MMO gamer since the mid 90's when the very first "multiplayer" games arrived at the scene. Even before WoW, roaming in packs of 4~5 friends as "murderers" in the land of Britannia, the great early days of UO, a time when they didn't even have the term "PvP" yet, players were naive, easy to exploit, GMs and support didn't know that they had to regulate certain stuff... Exactly the same in WoW as well, all through the original, Burning Legion, WotLK, Cataclysm... etc etc.. premades is just a one sided derp, and it was around after 10 years of doing that stuff, I finally realized what me and my friends in these "premades" weren't helping PvP at all. We were driving all the casual players away. We were hurting it. We were KILLING it. Our server wasn't a big one. PvPers were limited. Every time I come up in premades, after a few matches all PvP stops. Nobody queues. People were discouraged so much, that they'd rather wait out until people like me would get bored and log out, so they can enjoy regular level fights amongst equal skill levels. It was since then, I decided to walk from whatever guilds I was a part of in whatever game I played. I decided to just go solo, not get involved with any guild-level action, and in any game, go to the faction that suffers the most from lack of players. It's an uphill battle every time, but at least I know what I do will help the underdogs in trying to balance things out even a little bit. You've been there. You know what premades do. Many of the folks here still don't realize what letting loose premades in reg matches mean to the rest of the people. Just about 2 hours ago, I've queued in Harbinger. Thought maybe could do a few matches to finish my Weekly. What do we get? Impremaderps on the other side. After around two matches of simply crushing defeat, the queue goes dead. Nobody is going to put up with that shi*, so in the end, no more PvP for Replayers, which means no more PvP for Implayers. Dunno if they enjoyed fighting same Impremades vs. Impremades after that. My guess is not.

For the zillionth time, it's premades and their derpshi*. Every peak hours, same lolderp setups with easy-mode gaming, fly-by easy 2 matches for dailies, and 6 more matches to finish Weeklies within 2 hours. One sided slaughter until Impremaderps get bored and split up, log out, or change sides. So don't blame individual classes. Blame the shi**y matchmaking and Impremaderps. Random matches, and the number of enemy juggs and sorcs don't always match 1-on-1 like that. When they always come in sets, its 7~8 times out of 10 premades. It f*** with the element of random chance and teaming that keeps both sides fair (and disorganized) in the same way.

Tab for closest, Shift+Tab for next, and mouse-click when things are less hectic. Used to be fast enough to have 3 people in attack range, and then switch around targets for 3 powers used each against different target, in the order I want. Nowadays I'm so hamfisted that I accidentally mash alt and Tab together that it keeps switching me to a different window in the middle of the fight. Its true about what they say. You shouldn't PvP when you're over 40. Getting too old for this shi*

...or just cut back on a few details. Should be enough in most cases, even without dwelling into more profound suggestions coming from different people here and there.

The problem is, as I repeat, specifically sorc/sage healers in SWTOR are more than support. They are the alpha and the omega, and their impact in game surpasses the usual amount of positive impact you'd expect from support classes. If it is any of the other healers, which are clearly more balanced -- in that they can be hampered, focused a bit more easily, and requires a lot more concentrated effort from the team to be protected -- I'd not disagree to your general statement. Be it in any WZ with comparable skill levels at both sides, where one side doesn't have any healers, while the other side has merc/mando healers and/or smugg/ops healers -- it is still playable. If one side has a total two healers of such, while the other side has no healers and just two more DPS, then while the latter is disadvantaged a bit it is still possible to put up a fight by concentrating the two extra DPS to the focus role to take out enemy healers before their presence forces an unbeatable attrition. Not so with sorc/sages. Even one of them in the other team while none in this team, and effectively the match is screwed before the start. Just a very basic and uninspiring level of mutual team support, and that is still enough to get the job done. Nobody is attacking all healers at the same face value -- at least I'm not. Most everything mentioned in this thread, I believe to be directed against sorc/sages. So what's the ratio of that "sometimes" when compared against "other times"? Oh for sure, we know that "sometimes" it happens, since nothing is absolute. Being a Rep player almost exclusively (since there isn't occasion I need to switch to Imp side to help them out, since Reps are perpetual losers in every server) I actually see it happening quite often -- because even at max lv65 WZs, Reps are predominantly newbie-level players who primarily queue to WZs to get their daily quests done, with no interest in learning how to PvP. So, let's talk about when the opposition you face, is not so fractured and pathetically weak... let's say both are premade level competition. Can you honestly, swear to god, say that when both sides are at comparable levels of skill like this, the team with zero healers and that much more DPS is going to have a 50:50 chance in winning against a team that's embedded with multiple healers, primarily being sorc/sages? Me, honest to god, I see no chance at all -- because if you can't take out... or at least, neutralize/hinder a healer by yourself, then it's not a 8:8. If your team has two sorc/sage healers while our team has none, then that's a 8:16 situation in favor of yours where each sorc/sage needs around 3~4 people focusing it to be taken out or completely hindered. Most WZs necessitate division of teams on three different nodes. You have one healer and one other guy on one of your node and no amount of clever assault or surprise attack is going to land us that node even if we send 3 or 4 people. When that happens the rest 4~5 people assaulting the other node also has no hope of overcoming roughly similar numbers of enemies. Compare the amount of time it takes for our 3~4 guys to focus, and finally pin down one of your sorc/sages... and then see how many of us your team will just steamroll in that same amount of time. Healers, like you said, are support, not immortal life-givers. With the merc/mando healers and smugg/ops healers, I don't whine or complain about them, because they are currently like that. Difficult, but still possible to fight against. They're balanced well enough IMO. I'm guessing this is why you keep asking for your own favorite merc/mandos to be buffed, but I'm sorry to say that the reason you feel merc/mando healers are weak, is exactly the reason why I consider them to be well balanced in overall terms. They can be stopped, seriously hindered and hampered, and focused down to be killed in a short enough time span for no-healer teams to grab hold of victory. Not so with sorc/sages, and these guys are what all the "NERF HEALZ!!" rants are aiming against -- and rightfully so. No objections here. Matchmaking is certainly a problem, and I specifically mentioned that most heal-related complaints are actually coming from bad matchmaking. But exclude all those terrible premade/matchmaking issues, and only pickout (supposedly) 'even' matchups that is rare to happen. Even in this case, healers are still a problem, and its usually because an "evenly matched team" nowadays simply means both sides has at least two sorc/sage healers. In your own words: "matchmaking". Let's see how well your AP powertech friend fares if he is sent to dispatch and get rid of enemy sorc/sages without having any heal support of his own behind his back. Or, in other words, having sufficient heal support behind his back is also what makes it possible for him to do his job -- having heal support is a prerequisite to EVERYTHING in the WZs, and that's the whole problem.

And which countries are the richest with a large-scale economy that has enough suprlus to support an annual budget for systematic support for sports sectors -- rich enough to support fundamental level training for their athletes, and enough to run a sportsleague every step of the way, starting from little leagues, to middle schools, highschools, college leauges, social leagues and the professionals? --- the largest countries in the world. Money is an important factor, yes -- if not the MOST important factor. But all the money in the world don't give you Usain Bolt. The top-of-the-top level talent is born... and when it comes to finding talent, it helps to have a bigger chunk of the 7.4 billion world population. This is especially evident in non-professional sports where you can't just buy talent from outside, and the athletes are summoned under their "faction" (nationalities) to participate in a world event. Guess who ranks the highest medals -- you can bet your arse Americans, Chinese and the Russians are always in the top10 -- if not always in the top5. Same with Imp-Rep balance. More population = more likeliness of better players available at hand = more likely chance of victory.

...obviously, he means the in-stealth stun, the one that runs for 8s, not the basic hardstun. Get a clue, guys. Geez. (ps) For the record, if we are talking about PTSD, there used to be a rare bug back in 1.x days, associated with that zapping in-stealth stun. It was a bug, and basically a perma-stun. You'd be in that zapped motion, and just nothing would work. I wonder if they've fixed that, or if it still remains a rare and unpleasant surprise to happen every now and then.

Ditto. (ps) Just to clarify, SWTOR's actually not all that toxic at all. I mean, its actually one of the nicest PvP communities I've been in... both in-game and the forums. In some other game communities I know... haha... compared to most other communities, even the worst insults and flame wars in SWTOR forums isn't much at all.

How'd that be possible? In my case I have about 2,000 defense which lands me barely above 25% base defense chance, and about the 30% shield chance at the same time. With Defense/Immortal skills/buffs the defense chance rises around 34~36% on average, and when blade dance/ravage hits, would be momentarily pushed upto 40% for a few seconds. If the guy invested in shield rating to achieve over 50% shield chance, I don't see his defense going over maybe 17~18% chance. This is my opinion as well. Defense chance is unreliable in PvP, but freak accidents do happen, however unlikely it may be. That's both the beauty and the curse, of chance based mechanics. Like I mentioned in other posts, chance-based mechanics become reliable enough to be considered a constant factor when the base chance starts surpassing 60%. Anything under 50% is frankly too unreliable.

Now, in most cases, most healers CAN be taken on by a single DPS. The key to balance between healers and DPS is that eventually the heals WILL be overcome by damage -- lest healers aren't healers, they become immortals, which they shouldn't be. The trick is just how fast can damage overcome a healer, and this one should be very slow, requiring meticulous attacks and sustained pressure, and usually a bit of help from nearby allies should be enough to overcome incoming damage. We usually call this "peeling". Most other healers fall under this category. Merc/mando healers and Ops/smugg healers are therefore, in a good place, where they both have a lot to contribute towards heals and survival when properly protected and peeled, but when unprotected or severely focused, will eventually succumb. They fill the role correctly, and it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why merc/mando and smugg/ops healers are complaining -- they want to be at the place where the sorc/sages are. It's not all healers that are a problem. It's the sorc/sages. The TTK factor against these classes are so high, so slow to kill, that in many cases they become unkillable -- even with skilled teams on both sides. Oh yes, the average players with the lack of "L2P" are gonna have serious troubles alright, but the thing is, guys who have PLENTY of "L2P" are in the same boat. Disturbingly difficult to take down because the heals and self-protection of the healer build for this class is just frustratingly high. Realistically speaking, under equal conditions, when a big fight brews there's always only a limited amount of ppl that can focus the healer -- no matter how well organized. If it takes the entire team at hand, like 3~4 people to focus down one sorc/sage healer through his guard/selfheals, then that means for the entire duration of that time those 3~4 focusing attackers are entirely committed to latch onto the enemy sorc/sage. Totally vulnerable from everything else. So it's not all healers. Like so many posts and threads, its the sorc/sages. Way too high requirements to kill a single one of them. When there are multiple, in many cases no average team meets the requirements to take even one of them down.

The point of healers isn't to make anything immortal as well. If one DPS cannot kill one healer, then its simply an opposite imbalance where limitation in overall numbers dictate the team with most healers wins -- because in this case, no matter how small the DPS is, the team with higher healers will always force attrition that the team with lesser number of healers can never beat. Try deny that's what's happening in WZs nowadays. No, they're usually 'blinded' by a glaring wall of heals which make the game so stale and stuffy, that a team with lower number of heals simply choose to give up and walk from the game, whereas the opposite side is easy mode 24/7. That's what usually 'blinds' people to rage and despair in this heal-dominated meta. Hence, the death of PvP. Woopee. Players are gonna walk all the time. Quality of matches dropping. Team ranked going silent. Premade derps flocking to regs. Is this everything entirely a healer's fault? No. But if we try counting any of the three major roles of DPS/Tank/Heals that impacts the game to see which is causing most problems, who else than healers?

...not really. The damage guard/juggs are dealing is about as much you'd expect from DPS guard/juggs... which is, yes, we know, by itself a problem, but only because they shouldn't be doing that much damage in a tanking stance. Frankly the usual reason they seem to be doing too much damage is simply because they don't die often, and its not they don't die often because they're tanks, but rather the most inspiring and memorable guard/juggs you see in WZs almost always come in pairs or trios or quadruplets with personal heal stooges behind them. You know, the premade/guild sort who joins up and gets tricked into thinking they're actually a good player, and people recommend that he plays a healer... so they take him in every PvP as a personal heal vendingmachine in this easy-mode heal meta.... but I digress.. By themselves, guard/juggs have actually lower average defense/survivability than sent/maras because the main tanking stats aren't working in PvP. One of them is totally broken-level useless, the other just barely limps through. Whomever this great, terrible skanky jugg or guardian you see, try and see if they can do the same shi* when they not larrying along personal heal slaves. Its more of a godawful premade loflest steamroller teams + yet another sorc/sage issue, rather than a guardian/jugg issue. Yeah, they are problem in evenly matched fights, but in most reg WZs, the perceived problem stems up from a different source.

I struggle with sorcs/sages usually. The only times mercs and op healers give me trouble would be when they are in organized premades whilst I'm stuck with the usual level Reps. In most cases you don't really need to even kill merc/mandos or smugg/ops. Fighting against those guys almost always has a satisfying risk:reward ratio; as in, the tighter your focus and hinderance, the more you can actually feel it taking positive effect for your team. For sorc/sages, IMO its either remove them totally by killing them, or nothing at all.

As I always say... 1. leave heals alone 2. increase effect duration of interrupt by +2 seconds 3. decrease CD time of interrupts on all classes by -2 seconds 4. increase amount of force used up with heal powers somewhat 5. add in more potent heal debuffs Above changes, and we don't need to nerf down the pure heals. Don't need to touch PW. It balances between the potency and importance of healers and the ability to combat such healers -- without having to directly nerf the potency of heals, or involving yet another blanket-buff to damage which will reverse everything and bring out "too high damage" complaints next time around. Basically, the aim would be to INCREASE THE EFFICIENCY OF ANTI-HEAL ACTIONS that is not directly involved with damage. You want people to be able to shut off heals with adequate tactics and coordination -- not by just overwhelming them with damage. The current problem rises from the fact that the heals are powerful, and yet, no amount of organization or coordination is really enough to adequately counter its dominance inside a WZ/arena. Hence, the suggestions above. Increasing duration of interrupt, and decreasing its CD will act in favor of discouraging the "in-your-facetank-heal", where the sorc/sage healer can just stand on a spot, face tanking enemy attacks and calmly casting large-portion heals non-stop. It may be interrupted.. but for what? 4 secs? The duration is little more than 2 powers worth of global cool -- whereas the CD of interrupt powers are what.. 10~12s on average? Just get it interrupted once and for the next 8~9 seconds, non-stop healing. In order to adequately shut out a single healer from continuous casting you need around 3 people to coordinate interrupts extremely carefully, and at the same time distribute hard stuns to not give it a full resolve. Considering normal WZ battle conditions the effort that goes into stopping heals greatly outweighs the effort it takes to distribute heals. Slightly changing the relative situations of the interrupters and the interruptee should have a more positive effect for balance. Slighlty increasing the force consumption is pretty much self explanatory, as there is no way on earth a sorc/sage would every dry up -- unlike how other healers are required to manage their resources wisely. I remember back in 1.2 ~ 1.8 days, healers actually took skill to heal well. Healing nonstop and excessively quickly depleted your force. Emergency-level non-stop healing always came with a risk that since your force can't keep that up forever, you'd continuously transfer your HP into force, and this would make the healer become lower and lower in HP unless the situation was resolved soon. Sorc/sages were considered "more difficult, but rewarding" in those days. Not any more. Just have a meatshield and a couple of dedicated peelers in your premade, and then healing's so simple and pleasant. Point. Clikck. Click. Click. Click. Ut-oh, too many targets to switch around and click? Dump AoE heal. Rinse, repeat.... because you're the forcegizer bunny. You never run out of force. Heal debuffs, I've laid out the suggestions in many other threads. Give a class that's considered "weak" in PvP special utilities that can stack on top of the -20% heal debuff tank classes can deal, so when these heal debuffs are coordinated and stacked it becomes strong enough for the healer to notice that something's seriously wrong -- hence, the guy receiving heals cannot just laugh it up and face tank everything like a crazy bull, even if he has a pocket healer behind him.. and fall into real danger. My candiadte would be to give merc/mandos the heal debuffs, on a power that's considered obsolete for PvP, such as the plasmacannon/flamethrower -- channeled, weak damage AoE.

Why do you think 'big' countries like USA, China, or Russia dominate the gold medals in international sports events like the Olympics? ----- The answer? Population. ... There are many different theories about why PvP-oriented people tend to choose the bad guys side in MMOGs that feature factions. I've got a few theories of my own, but whatever the reason, it does happen. More people flock to Imps in SWTOR just as more people flock to the Horde in WoW. The pop. imbalance is quoted as high as 3:1 in favor of Imps on average. This means that If there 1,000 Imps online, there are only about 333 Reps online at the same time. If we suppose 10% of the population is people who would PvP regularly, then there would be 100 Imp PvPers as opposed to 33 Rep PvPers on at the same time. People don't usually all queue at the same time, so just to make a point let's suppose 10% of that 10% queue for PvP at any given time. What you get 10 real PvPers in the Imp side at any given time, while only 3.3 real PvPers in the Reps. For the imps, this is enough to make two full teams that have more than 50% of its members as real PvPers. For the Reps, you can't even make a 4-man premade even if you gather all the 'real PvPers' online, because its only 3.3 people. The system decides to create 3 matches at the same time by mixing in other casual players from both parties. When this happens, in those three Imp teams around 1/3rd will be talented PvPers, wheras for Reps, only about 1 player in each team will be a real PvPers. Three matches happen, three losses to the Reps. ... So this goes around for years, and then, what happens is every new player interested in PvP just flocks to Imps. Basically, people take the path of least resistance. When they ask around which side is good for PvP, everyone will answer Imps. Everyone will tell them Reps suck. I'd dearly love to believe that people with a sense of sportsmanship and fairness, upon hearing such, will decide to join Reps to help out. But the reality is, every new player interested in PvP just lands themselves at the Imps as well -- creating even larger numbers imbalance as time flows. So there you have it. Why do Imps do so well, while Reps suck so hard? Because the game was set for us Reps to lose from the beginning, when people just flocked to one side and didn't care about how much things would be bad for the other side. (ps) They still don't care. (ps2) At least the smarter ones know that this isn't because the Imps are genetically superior or anything. Some of those smarter Imp players have good heart, and actually would switch to Rep characters if things are too bad. But people like this are few and far between. The rest of the idiots are just full of themselves.

Where's the "logical leap" in merely stating what EVERYONE already knows, and simply confirmed through a visual representation that by itself display the discrepancies in the curves as well as initial differences the ratings itself? You know what you're saying? It's like this. You show the graph that clearly displays the discrepancies of wealth distribution between the top 20% of the pop. and then the rest 80%, and then when somebody says, "hey, this country is f***up..." you're like, "Whoa! let's not jump to conclusions!". That's what you're doing, right here. Friggin' number pushers.

That's a totally irresponsible (and unfortunately wide spread) view of how an in-game society/community works, that does not recognize the importance of mutual effort between the players to make a common environment better and enjoyable for all people. Typical knee-jerk reaction against valid criticism in the grand tradition of "Hey, you don't like America? Go to the USSR" sort of 50's bullcrap, if you ask me. PvP and its surrounding environment is not some gift horse that comes from outside. Its how the community and their actions make it. Before anything, PvP is a GAME and like with all games, it always needs at least two to play. I need someone to play against, you need someone to play against, everyone does. A 'game' cannot establish itself when one of the parties cannot get any enjoyment out of it. It always requires all parties involved with the game to try and make things fair and enjoyable for everyone. That means each and every player who plays the game have their own obligations towards the game, if they consider themselves a gamer. Do you even know how many MMOs have had their PvP destroyed with that kind of attitude?

Frankly, all I notice is how pathetic and hopeless the curve stays for Defense, which is a main tanking stat for tanks, unlike how Alacrity is merely a support stat for DPS/healers no matter how you overemphasize its importance....

A little harsh... but I agree on the general sentiment. Add in the fact that I'm in the "other guy's shoes" as a Rep and what I see in regs is that sorc healers getting off way too easy, with everything perfectly setup for a easy-peasy game. Right amount of DPS, personal bodyguards, and almost exclusively fighting enemies that re always weaker than themselves. To an extent same applies to others as well, and every time in regs, I usually end up chanting, "Ok. One chance. One chance to catch one of those premade arsehats without the sorc, without 2~3 friendlies behind his back, in a 1v1" so I can prove a point, whether or not the rest of the idiots in my team realizes the fact. On the flip side, almost always fighting in disadvantaged situations, there comes a time when a talented sage healer also becomes available in our own team. Even more rare times where two of them queue. What happens then, is that I see a team of clueless Reps, fighting on equal terms against premade Imps. Apparently, when you just don't die, the difference between a good player and a bad player just isn't all that large That's how screwed up sorc/sage healing is. Just having two talented sage healers that match the skill level of the two enemy sorc healers from the same premade, shouldn't be enough for a band of sucky solo queue players to be able to match a more organized team -- but in reality, it happens. Heals dominate the meta of the game, and sorc/sages dominate in the heal category, and make way too large impact. They literally carry the whole team. So true. Sage/sorc healing was considered overboard even back in version 1.x days, but ironically, in those days I actually supported the views that good organization can bring them down even in reg level, and most of the times I can dare say it was true. In these days... I'm not so sure.

...and the time honored internet tradition of "Trial by Sword" is on. Heya, folks! You got a disagreement? Challenge the other guy to a duel and kill him! The winner is right!

Need a translator. Looks like English, but disturbingly cryptic.

Healers do need a nerf -- the simple truth would be both measures are required at the same time. 1. In above-average level of PvP, with more organized teamplay, higher participation of premades in both sides, and high probability of healers being abundant in both teams -- it's very evident sorc/sage healers need to be held back in check. They are overperforming. 2. In average and below-average level of PvP, which would actually form the majority of the PvP population and their complaints, its not about healers and healing themselves, but rather about unequal chance of healers landing in both competing teams equally. > More casual players and less serious PvPers in the Repside = higher chance of low-skill players, higher chance of solo queue players, higher chance of uneven class/role distribution, higher chance of not having healers at all, higher chance of no premade players to lead the way. > More PvP-oriented players flocking to Imps in droves = higher chance of better players, higher chance of premade queue players, higher chance that the team almost always has multiple healers. So its not just one or the other. The sorc/sage healers being OP has a lot more to do with more organized gameplay, premade vs premade situations, and ranked arena queues. Matchmaking has more to do with average reg WZ gameplay and everyday complaints in the forums.. This is why I'm quite interested in the new WZs being proclaimed to have mixed-faction teams. Many people don't like it because it destroys the faction vs. faction immersion, but from a purely gameplay standpoint, it is actually an excellent solution. No more one-sided derp. If the Impremades are so numerous, then its highly likely each match will feature [4 Impremades + 4 Solo Reps] vs [4 Impremades + 4 Solo Reps]. "The population imbalance was so severe, that it caused all these problems? The Implayers still refuse to move over to help out the Replayers? OK. Fine. Then we make a WZ where the population Imbalance is meaningless by just mixing everyone up!" If this bid succeeds, then I'd probably ask the devs to do it to ALL WZs. When this happens, a LOT of the reg WZ complaints is going to subside.

Sith do whatever they want. They aren't bound by some code of goody-two-shoes. So, it just so happens tha my Sith, chooses to do good stuff because that's pleasuring. There is no emotion? There is peace? Says who? I do good shi* and it makes me feeeeeel good. There is no passion? Screw it. I do good shi* and I like helping people, and I do it with all the passion I want. When I see bad guys, scums and thugs, I despise them and I crush them as they deserve. No forgiveness. The guy's a villain, a scum, a thug. So I kill him. For some reason my violent actions seem to have a positive effect for the local community. I wonder why. Some 'Dark Lord of the Sith' are doing idiot stuff which I despise. So I go and crush them all. Put them out of the picture forever. They tell me to join their petty plans for power struggles and shi*. I just go kill them so they don't do stupid things. The Sith Code is true -- through strength, I gain victory, and through victory all my chains that tie me to those idiots so obsessed with making empires and stuff, are broken. I'm free to do justice the way I see fit, punishing criminals, upholding the law and order under my rule. Yes, it's a brutal dictatorship, but its only brutal against people who lie, steal, cheat, murder, and etc.. So some of my violent and temperamental choices give me DS points.. but it so turns out my wanting power to do justice with a passion... the anger and hate towards evil doers... sorta landed me in the LS.

...that's like blaming the poor and deprived for their problems instead of blaming the flawed system that caused poverty. It's like saying, "If you're poor and hungry, don't be so angry and try to fix the society. Just have a better, more cheerful mindset and get a religion or something." How the royal f*** is this the problem of individual pug players, when the initial numbers imbalance between factions have imbalanced the numbers of competent people that queue into PvP matches in the first place?

The only debuff in the game that has any remarkable effect is speed debuffs. Clearly way too much speed debuffs that are way to frequent and way too AoE. Other than that, all the rest are weak, doesn't feature stacking, and gimmicky at best. Like, good luck making any difference with a 5% accuracy debuff or a 5% armor debuff. Hello, my name is Trauma, I deal a woppin' 20% less heals received in this cross-heals meta.... yay.