scylence
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Posts posted by scylence
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Yes it's possible in placement matches.
Yes you're bad.
8s never took more skill than 4s. I played more 8s than you, and with a better team. You could carry in 8s, you cant carry a bad teammate in 4s (talking about 4v4 group ranked, and ranked 8s of course, not yolo/regs).
Also enjoyable to know you've upset a non-factor. ^
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I just thought it was funny/ironic that someone makes this comment in a thread about Maras/Sents.
true heh, it would be nice if Mara had access to the Force Grip talent so we could get a hard stun
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I think this actually sounds like a great idea for the foundation of a new AC all together.
like a 1h saber/focus, many long range saber throwing abilities, knockbacks, and a few melee abilities. Could hold the 1h saber in it's hand with blade down rather then up as all other ACs do.
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rating is meaningless atm for any sort of skill display. Certain comps are auto win (unless you are really bad), some are auto lose (unless your opponents are really bad). It is also meaningless because of other scrubby factors like que syncing, and win trading. Sure they fixed most if not all of the bolster exploiting, but with the daily/weekly addition you have a high chance of getting someone with little to no ranked experience, PVE gear, or plain doesn't focus.
Luck =/= skill
I think 8v8s into ranked would be a welcomed band aid fix as a team getting stuck with a few bad/undergeared teammates has a higher *chance* of being able to overcome the handicap then a 4s team stuck with 1-2 bad/undergeared/bad comp
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false.. it's possible for a pug to win against a premade in larger groups.. when it's just 4 it becomes all about the comp you've got. you can see the outcome before it's even started just by looking at what's in yours and their team.
This is true, but the times a PUG wins against a premade is probably 5% or less. I am talking full or near full premade. PUGs prob beat partials far more often. With that said the whole point of PVP is too find a challenge and overcome it, people intentionally premading regs knowing that the chance that they will face another is super slim means their motive is for an eas(y)(ier) win. In my eyes that makes then scrubs
Arenas are the worst due to the comp you mentioned.
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Since we are talking about DPS scouperative they can only cleanse tech and physical, so unless they arethe cleanse is mostly useless.
OK, that's not really true but I wanted to link to that youtube video ... scoundrel cleanse is good against troopers and other smugglers but not against force user DOTs.
A Shadow's resilience is a defensive cooldown, not a cleanse (cooldown 60 sec). Triage (the scoundrel's cleanse) has a 4.5s cooldown hence we call it a cleanse, not a DCD.
healing operatives can cleanse mental effects too (psych meds talent)
Yep, that is why I said it can cleanse some, and some it cannot
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Hidden strike is now a root, not a stun. You can pop your DCDs without having to use your CC breaker. You can stun the operative who opens on you without CC breaking first.
Changing Hidden strike from a knockdown (stun) to a root was the last batch of combat changes if I recall correctly.
so shadows, who still have their knockdown opener, are definitely a different category than DPS operatives who do not.
Given that the operative is in melee range when he does hidden strike, being rooted is not a big deal. E.g. if you are sage/sorc healer you can force speed (egress) to break root, right?
It is not like it is a big number. Lets count ...
- hard stun (kick in the balls, everyone has one of these)
- flashbang -instant AoE mezz (guardian / juggs have one of these, shadows have not equivalent, shadows and other classes get a cast single target mezz)
- sap (mezz only from stealth, shadow has this, requires in combat stealth which can be countered by DOTs. Good for heal to full in 1v1).
- grenade (everyone should have these)
Question to you expert DPS shadow/scoundrels: if you are dotted up and can't cleanse, can you still reliably steath / sap / heal to full in a 1v1 fight?
So, scoundrels are better off than shadows in the CC department (instant mezz vs cast) but shadows still have a knockdown (stun) opener and scoundrel / operatives do not.
Shadows/Sins have a castable mez (that can be used at anytime), a low cd mez (low slash), and an insta cast from stealth mez.
So Shadows/Sins win on CC department actually, but Scoundrels/Ops can cleanse some things, some it cannot. Shadows/Sins cant really cleanse anything
- hard stun (kick in the balls, everyone has one of these)
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Ask yourself this "Why would you need to?"
Not only do you get a damage buff.... but its only useable in stealth unless you are heavy in the tank tree. Therefore why would you NOT use it as an opener from stealth?
If I ever restealth when spike is on CD I use low slash as an opener unless the target has full resolve. Both give duplicity procs as well (Spike and low slash)
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Have you ever played Ops/Scound because it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about? And nobody every comes out of stealth with a CC opener (at least not any good player I know). That's a complete waste of a CC. And Op/Scounds have waaaay more than 1 stun. They are the masters of CC.
huh?
You are telling me sins/shadow you know don't open with spike from stealth? scapps/conceals that dont open with hidden strike?
Ops/Scounds have basically had 2 stuns now have 1. One on Hidden strike (only useable while in stealth but now is a root), and Debilitate (4s)
Then they have 2 Mezzes (break on damage)... one single target from stealth, and one AOE (flash bang)
and then 1 snare/root
Sins/Shadows have basically the same amount except no AOE mez, but they do have a single target mez with a low cd, but they also have a knockback
anways... this is supposed to be about combat/carnage
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Nope, I'm implying that a buff like Unstoppable from Veng after Force Charge would be a nice buff for Carnage.
I mixed up qualities of Vengeance/Vigilance when I said the spec got the Unstoppable buff awhile back, when it was actually the Ravage root.
Gore Ravage hits harder, wrong.
The difference is how many times Vengeance Ravage can be used on a target.
2s KB prot on every leap is enough. It gives enough time to get the burst setup done but still make the heaviest hits interrupt-able (last hit of ravage and scream etc). You can still be stunned right away too, since its only KB prot.
Also with my suggestions and the ones I am getting in this thread, some of the other abilities like UR would have built in CC breaks, etc.
Unstoppable would be perfect for the spec if no other buffs/QoL changes were included, and would not be overpowered, but I am sure judging by the number of trolls (which I have on ignore) that posted after you, you stirred up a troll storm. A storm where I am sure at least one has claimed by now, that they can either global someone easily, or kill any class at any time in 3s consistently, but will never provide evidence (key words *anytime*, *consistently*) and that you need to "L2P"
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I am hoping I read your request correctly.
If there was a solo only regular warzone que, as in no premades allowed, then I think it would be a great addition.
Playing in a premade is fun, but most forget the actual motivation/reason for even que'ing in the first place, and that is *PVP*. The whole foundation of it is the strive to find a challenge and over-come it. Queing in regular warzones right now with a premade, (unless the 1% chance you are a rag tag group of PVErs), you are doing it with the sole intention of an easy win cuz you know very well the chance of facing a premade as well is super slim. There is no arguing that. It is kind of like some random group you play huttball against and they do a blow-out super quick and then talk ****.... It is like well.. okay carebear... I came to PVP.. you came to basically do a PVE marathon of running a ball.
So there is both sides of the coin, but it can be made enjoyable for the actual *PVP*ers that do one or both.
Instead of the current system just have Solo ONLY que and a Group ONLY que for regs. Then lets get some 8v8 Warzones in Ranked. I also think a new 8v8/10v10 Team deathmatch warzone should be added to all que types
This way, if you are making a premade but with the correct intention of still looking for a challenge, then you will either wait in que in the group only regs for practice, or go to ranked 8v8s/4v4s.
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updated the OP
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It doesn't matter if you are rank 1, and there is no way to prove you actually earned it. From what I hear and have seen a few times, there are guilds who win trade (not saying you did this). So unless there is an actual solution implemented that stops win trading there should be a rating decay. Just like in Solo ranked, the daily/weekly should have never been added without a solution to que syncing, bolster removal, having a 2018 exp que requirement, and better class based matchmaking not just role, for those same reasons as well there should be a rating decay as well.
If the ranked PVP was set up tournament style, then yea there might be some basis for holding the rating till other teams beat the one(s) you beat. But its not.
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First of all, the execute proc chance is 30%, not 45%, and it feels less than that. Sometimes you will get it on one ataru form swipe, sometimes you wont get it after 8. Carnage was designed with force scream being the large consistent damage hit, even before the xpac. If you think taking the rng away from this like they did with madness is a bad idea because it will allow marauders to hit too hard, you obviously have no concept of how much damage other specs do. Its one auto crit, with no other crit talents in the tree. Its a qol buff plain and simple, and will not change the spec very much considering you know....force scream and gore have a cooldown. Did you forget that?
I have said it before in this thread. The spec being random does not make it require more skill, it entails the absence of it.
Agreed, and the solution does not have to be removing/reducing the RNG from execute specifically. What if instead, the RNG was removed/reduced for Ataru form itself?
Maybe INSTEAD of my Original execute and stack changes;
Ataru Form
Instant
Enters an acrobatic lightsaber form, increasing accuracy by 3%. In addition, your successful melee attacks automatically deal an additional 100 energy damage, and have 20% chance to trigger an second strike that does 550-600 weapon damage. The second strike effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.
This way since most talents are labeled as "When Ataru form does damage" or when "Ataru form hits" as long as they are coded/corrected similar to their description, this means every time you hit with any ability with ataru form active, the RNG of execute won't be tied to Ataru RNG.
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This is generally a more reasonable set of suggestions than what you had talked about previously in other threads so I applaud you for taking feedback. That said I just don't think you can give even brief knockback immunity to sents/maras without overbuffing them.
The execute changes you propose are similar to those that have been talked about for a long time now and may work, although I suspect if we see them it will require three ataru proc's per execute.
The frenzied saber change is the wrong buff I think. Ataru proc's come so quickly that getting to a 3 stack is not a problem. The problem is with the short duration of the buff it is easy to lose during CC. I'd rather see the duration increased to 15 seconds and it otherwise left alone.
For undying rage/GBTF, I do not think making it reflect damage would be the way to go. I'd rather see the duration dropped to 3 seconds and have the health loss on activation again instead of at the end of the ability. Or reduce the amount of damage reduction to something like 50% for 5 seconds, make it usable only under 50% health, and remove the health loss altogether.
Again, the knockback immunity being 3s, 2 for actual attacks is not much at all. It is also based off an ability that has a cooldown anyway. The mara/sent would still be susceptible to stuns and mez. If anything this is one of the most important things we need, or some variation of it unless they plan on completely gutting the AOE knockbacks that are near spammable without thought involved. You won't get off the major part of your burst in the duration of the knockback immunity doesnt matter if stars align and you have zerk up. The real in practice benefit is the chance to profit off an opponent blowing their knockback the moment they are leaped too, which is the natural order of good timing and skill vs bad timing and skill.
As far as the ataru proc DR talent. Actually testing it in practice, I never had an issue with the duration, not one bit. The problem is the effectiveness, and on top of that the effectiveness does not justify it's tier placement in the tree. This is a tier 1/2 talent AT BEST. It is simply the worst talent atm in Carnage/combat tree, and when you go full Combat/Carnage there are simply better choices in the other trees as well in the low tiers.
Another possible solution to this is to remove the talent completely, keep the effects and duration the way they are and add them to a preexisting talent located lower in the tree.
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I don't hate the idea of making UR more like Kolto overload. But if that were to happen, i feel it could be a bit too powerful in ranked. I guess one could make the CD longer or change it a bit to even it out. Some type of additional root break would be awesome tho. Force camo should break roots on passive imo, it shouldnt be just for carnage maras. Either this, or they could just lower CD of camo and just remove UR. That way I wouldn't feel so bad about "wasting" camo on root break
yea maybe have that version of UR have 3 min CD like KO does.
The nice thing is the fact it root breaks when the ability triggers and when it ends and u get hit with the 50% hp hit.
Maybe if Camo naturally broke roots and snares by default, the Unbound talent could be simply changed to reduce the cooldown of camo
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Seems the discussion has gone back to relatively realistic levels.
Just bear in mind OP claimed in the other thread that it's impossible to keep track of who used their cc-breaker.
feel free to quote where I said impossible, or end up on ignore like the rest. One can only assume you are just a troll if all you do is try to put "words in my mouth".
Any input on the kolto overload version of UR above?
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I was more thinking in the line of if we would get KB immunity i would rather have it wiht a HO ability thing. Although to be frank i was thinking along the lines of sages and snipers root, using force camo to rootbreak is so annoying. but whatever. i dont care, predation is the ***** for thos snare moments that's true.
Well, i would argue that its more reasonable to think in the lines of *how much can a guy protect himself VS how many utilities I need to counter it. This makes more sense to me than to have abilitys that could potentially counter yet another persons DCD, which i don't personally see the reasons for. The 2-3 seconds tho is not much, and it most likely would not be gamebreaking.
Yes I understand your reservations, I originally had the KB protection set at 2 seconds, but another poster pointed out the delay from leaping itself, which Is why I raised it to 3s.
I was even thinking as an alternative, for UR that is, would it not make a ton more sense if it was more of an activate + fire and forget ability like Kolto overload?
Like this:
Undying Rage/GBTF:
Instant
Activating this ability surrounds the user in the protection of the force that lasts up to 60 seconds, Undying Rage is triggered when your health is reduced to 20% health or less. If your health is already 20% or less, Undying rage triggers immediately. Once triggered, Undying Rage goes on cooldown for 3 minutes, reduces all damage taken by 99% for 5s. Undying Rage also clears the user of all movement impairing effects once triggered and again when the effect ends. When the effect of Undying Rage ends the player loses 50% of their current HP
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You can't challenge me on my argument being a set situation 1v1, which should be the case, with "where some random KB user has no friends around to KB you as well". Here you bring in another factor to the game, you say "friends around", who's to say I don't have friends for instance that stun or otherwise controll the situation like this guy's friend. Random events, like KBs etc etc in a WZ is a problem that all melee classes have, not just marauders and although we are probably topping the charts of CC in the game, i don't think a KB resistance only after leap would help much but thats my opinion. What I would rather see tho is marauders getting some sort of HO, immunity to snare and root effects for say 3 seconds or something would be very helpful in those crowded annoying matches. It would be a QoL tho and not that nessecary.
You're argument for CC immunity is, i dunno, it just makes sense to not have it. Everytime i get full resolve i am almost giddy in my chair for now i can finally just leap a ****er and gore+ravage him, with berserk up and rage available the target is pretty much done for. I melt people easily enough without CC immunity sticking up peoples behinds.
The biggest problem with the spec is the RNG of Scream proc imo.
FIrst off I updated the OP before and already, removing the CC reflect...
Second, I can argue the validity of /with friends more then you can argue the validity of 1v1. What part of the game is based on 1v1s? the dueling feature? What part of the game is based on gvg? 99% of it.
KB immunity right after a force leap is still very useful. I have already pointed out why, and the need for it
Predation already counteracts portions of snares that we may encounter, so does leap itself (ofc the opponent can always kite smart but that is a diff story). KB protection, even for that short period of time is far more useful then a 2-3s immunity to snares and roots, something of which wouldn't even be useful on something like leap.
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Let me just say to the people that say UR is the best DCD in the game: Do you even play marauder bro ? I'd gladly change the entire DCD to pretty much anything. 5 seconds of 40% dmg red, heck 30 %.. It's an almost useless ability in regs. 50% of the time you are CC'ed and other 50% you might do a little extra dmg but that dmg will prob 1/100 games be useful for your team because if you are dying like that then your team is prob dying fast and you won't win anyway.. if you are uber lucky then maybe you could save yourself in ranked with it, but if the team is half decent then they would CC me. Hell, i'd even remove the entire DCD and get Force camo on lower CD instead.
Over to topic:
No, i'm sorry but you have a lot to learn. Yes carnage marauders have an annoying RNG aspect over itself, and it would be nice to get a more reliable rotation (spamming 5 massacres, lol no scream fml) but giving carnage ANY type of CC protection will be OP. i would destroy vs any class. The point is that if you don't stop a carnage from attacking (i'm thinking gore+ravage party here) and getting his procs to scream etc etc you are going to have a bad time, which means; if you CAN't stop them because he is CC immune then sucks to be you i guess. KB immunity i don't get ? why would you leap a KB capable fella in the back when you could just go up to him and leap him after KB ? which is much better. Think about it. if you do that, then you won't have to deal with slowed movement after KB when u have to move up to him (cause obviously a skilled player would wait for your KB immunity passes) besides: Predation bby!!... When i think about it, it would be nice to get to leap closer to objective and controll situation without worrying about a KB but that is highly situational.
The fact of the matter is that Carnage marauders just are very very hard to play in regs and thats because of lots of different factors that i'm not going to go in too. The class just requires a lot of practice in WZs, how to respond to situations, how to utilize your surroundings, how not to leap in get KB and die instantly etc etc.
**** UPDATED THE ORIGINAL POST *****
2-3s of KB protection on leap is conservative, and would be useful. 2-3s on leap is not enough time for a full rotation, and they would still be open to being stunned/mezzed. Also, CC is thrown around at a whim, so are knockbacks, so you can't just justify it doesn't make sense because of some specific X situation where some random KB user has no friends around to KB you as well.
Other then that, I agree with you on UR. I think it is actually one of the worst DCDs in the game, if not the worst. I'd also prefer not having it at all if Camo had like a 20s cd
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If you feel the need to put so many people on your ignore list I wonder who really is the "childish one" here...
I see what you are trying to do but it won't work. Logically if we have already proven they cannot provide a single piece of evidence for over 30 pages in a thread when burden of proof was on them, evidence that is extremely easy to obtain (if what they were arguing was true), clearly they are trolls.... and when the only thing they can provide are links to unrelated videos like my little pony or something and just about every fallacy in the book, in what was supposed to be an intelligent debate they have proven that their maturity, much less intelligence brings any opinion they may have to a level where it is not even worth the read.
Idiotic.Carnage needs execute to work as a stacking debuff up to 3 like they did with madness.
Ataru form gives 1 stack of execute, each stack increases the damage deal by 3.33% (10% at 3 stacks)., increases the crit chance by 33.33% (100% at 3), and reduces the rage cost by 1/2/3. Making scream free instead of costing 2 and refunding 1 after use will fix flow problems. It will also reduce the rage starvation carnage maras face. Stacking buff for execute also removes RNG.
Slaughter should not be able to proc while gore is off cooldown.
And that's pretty much it. You cannot give carnage marauders cc immunity. Vengeance seems broken now because of ED. Carnage has more burst than veng, less control, and the ability to be shut down. CC immunity = me globalling your entire team.
Same situation as the other thread......
If you can global people so consistently, providing video evidence should as easy as breathing.
I'm not going to troll scylence this time and try to engage in constructive discussion.1) No reflecting CC. This is a bad idea, and I think you know it. GBTF/UR is a powerful ability with a powerful drawback. I think GBTF should free you from CC effects in addition to its normal effect, instead of providing CC-immunity for the duration. While CC is an issue for the Marauder (and non-Vengeance Juggernauts), total immunity might not be the way to go. I think escape abilities would be a better idea. Combined with your normal CC-break and Resolve, this should give Marauders enough tools to avoid/escape CC.
2) 1.5%/3%. Stacks twice. I don't personally think there's anything wrong with Marauders being tanky, but 10% might be a bit too much.
3 & 4) This has already been suggested before in a previous thread. Still, I think it's a great change and is in-line with the developers' move towards less RNG-based specs.
5) Might wanna make it 3s. If you Leap from max distance, 1s of the immunity is eaten up by travel time, they way it does for Unstoppable/Unremitting. Your target can still interrupt the last tick of Ravage if they time it right (like they can do with Vengeance Juggernauts).
Yes, Someone already covered the CC reflect for #1, and I retracted/modified my suggestion in the reply but I will do it in the OP as well
as for #2. It was only a 4% total increase in DR and minus 1 stack max. The defense increase was removed, from what is an already lackluster and underutilized talent. If it remains at 6% might as well drop it way lower in the spec tree as it is not worthy of it's position, or replace it all together. Sometimes I feel like there are people who see some number like 10% in 1 spot and they go crazy. I could have added the same effect to a completely different talent in the same tree that would give another 4% DR for 10s and people wouldn't mind.
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It is a pain, and the whole daily and weekly missions they added while have make the que pop a little more frequently they have completely destroyed any reasonable matchup system. The only way a daily/weekly should have ever been implemented is if : Bolster was removed from ranked and a 2018 exp req was in place even to simply que for ranked, and your gear+components were locked in as soon as u qued. The matchups also need to be more balanced as to not place multiple of the same class on a team unless they are of a different role
As of now, rating is meaningless. It is less then 1% sign of skill. When you go 13 matches while getting matchups like 3 sents on your team and a merc, and the enemy is composed of a really nice mixup sometimes even 2-3 snipers..... or like this thread is about... a PVE player..... there is no skill involved. There are certain comps that are just easy mode, some matchups that are an auto loss/auto win. Until that is remedied, rating is pointless, so ofc you are going to find pple who would rather drop out even if its after the first round... and get back in que quicker hoping for a better match. This is not even counting the win traders and que syncers
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Note:
These are more conservative changes for the most part, even though I am sure there will be a mass following of trolls that enter this thread that will claim some math or supposed consistent scenario involving Combat/Carnage that these changes would make overpowered but will be unwilling to provide even a shred of evidence to support it (even though consistency would dictate easy access to proof)
On that note, I welcome constructed criticism, as long as it is mature and if you are going to make a claim at least do the presentable, or rather intelligent motion of a debate and supply evidence.
Called it:
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Let me guess, most of their posts have been either something not even pertaining to the topic/thread.... things along the lines of "Thats stupid" and not providing supporting arguments much less evidence... or /lol /L2P or "What I say is law and fact".
Close to the mark haha?
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I hope we can get move past the last thread and have a civilized discussion of what we believe.
1) I think the reflected stuns are a bit much and would put this ability over the top and would not only make it an effective god mode, but would be a very hard counter to pretty much all classes. If it just provided cc immunity, i think it wouldn't be too bad. It couldn't be used as just an offensive cooldown because of the health cost which would balance it from being op
2) I don't think the amount of overall defensive rating should change, but if it was changed to [1.5 / 3] % and stacked up to 2 times to make carnage get the stacks a bit quicker, that would still help a bit
3-4) removes rng aspect, i like it
5) just knockback immunity i would be fine with, as it would still allow others to counter with stuns, but it wouldn't be as easy to counter, and it would help the entire marauder class as it is in the second tier.
Overall, i think 1 and 3/4 would be good changes but i think if all of these changes were made it would be a bit much.
Yea I guess I can see where the reflected CC part could be a bit much. I would just say revert the previous nerf to UR
However if I were to chose the top ones to get added it would be 3,4,and 5. As far as 5, the knockback immunity only lasts 2 seconds with both points spent, I'd consider that easy to counter no matter what class I am playing.
Solutions to issues faced by Carnage/Combat
in PvP
Posted · Edited by scylence
I'm glad you wasted your time trying to dissect terminology I used rather then post on topic like the intelligent person you are *attempting* to portray.
But alas you certainly got some trolls aroused:
As everyone seems to like the RNG removal of 3+4, I addded something to the OP that I haven't seen suggested before that would replace the execute changes