For me, it's not so much that things Sith do can't be called evil, but that not all Sith are the same. There are honorable ones among them who care about their children and love their families and friends, but still do what they have to do in the name of the Empire and the Emperor. Likewise, there are others who are sadistic bastards and do things for the evulz and powah, so it's hard to judge the whole order for the d-bags within it.

They did not use it out of convenience, they used it out of desperation. I'm not really going to spend anymore time debating it, it's pretty clear you're incapable of looking at the situation from both sides. Here's my last attempt: One side is that the Jedi did not act fully according to their ideals, but out of deperation and in an attempt to preserve the Republic and many lives, they use the clones for the war. On the other side, Sidious is politically manipulating the Senate, the Jedi, and the Republic as a whole to make sure the war goes how he wants it to go, he's controlling both sides of the conflict, and he's evil AF. The clones may have suffered, but everyone (EXCEPT SIDIOUS) did. So, if you want to blame anyone, you know who to blame. If you want to be manipulated by a fictional character though and continue to blame the people who he would want you to blame, go right ahead. Even if YOU see it as the Jedi using the clones, Sidious used everyone. The Jedi, his own apprentices, the Senate, the Republic, the Clones, the Seperatists, the droid army, all of it. ITT there's a strong attempt to just spit on the Jedi while they're down like "No, they didn't stick to their ideals, haha silly Jedi they got what they deserved". Like, alright, if this is the party you throw over the Jedi being hypocrites, what do you do in real life when someone makes a mistake? Sorry to say it in a Star Wars conversation, but someone needs to grow up.

George Lucas definitely shot the scene first.

Right, but it's the whole "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!" situation. It's easy to judge generals (which works out here since that was the Jedi's title) in wars for their decisions, but they have to make the choices everyday people would be too uncomfortable or squeamish to properly execute. If the decision was between using "slave" clones that were ready and waiting or taking a much longer time getting together an army and risking the Republic, then the decision they would make is clear. It may not be the "right" decision in your mind, but the alternative is innocent civilians forming a resistance and fighting and dying while the Republic organized and drafted an army, and the Jedi weren't going to let that happen if they could avoid it.

The Republic did treat them that way, from what we saw. We have no idea what discussions took place in the Senate and I admittedly have never read a straight up clone perspective book other than the parts of "Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader" and the "Revenge of the Sith" novel, but the fact is the Jedi were sworn to the Republic which is why they joined the war: to protect it. It was pretty clear they didn't agree with the war itself or using the clones, but they were there so they used them. I think I would view it differently if I didn't know that Palpatine orchestrated the entire thing to destroy the Jedi, but I'm just not about to blame them for being the losers in every way possible. If anyone was in that war together, it was the Jedi and the Clones, probably even more than the Jedi and the Republic. Look at it from the Jedi perspective: A war has started, some clones were created for this purpose and, even if you don't agree with it, they are the best method of fighting the war near-immediately instead of taking months/years to train and build an army while the droids are already marching on Republic territory. The resistance would have been Jedi and whatever forces each planet had available at the time, which would have led to a lot more losses on the Republic side. Plus, there's always the risk that if you don't use the clones, the Seperatists might find a way to claim them against you as well, and then you'd have no chance. It was not an ideal Jedi situation and their morals are fair to question for it, but I'm never going to view them as slavers or the Clones as slaves. It's just not there for me.

I just don't buy it. There were way more clones than Jedi and no one was keeping them imprisoned, they were in the war because that's what they were made for. I think whatever author's choice it was to bring it up is cool and I respect it, but I don't agree.

They were (technically) Mandalorian clones. They live to fight, they enjoy it, they aren't alive unless they're in a fight. I guarantee you given money, 99% of them would buy some cool shades and jump right back into the war. Has nothing to do with the programming. If you want to blame anyone for it, blame whoever made the cloning process and Jango Fett for volunteering the template, OR Palpatine for being the one who literally used them as tools. He literally describes the Clone Wars as a win-win situation with no real losses on either side, so if you want to blame people (even fictional characters) blame the right ones.

I just don't agree. The most I know of the clones is in the movies and a few books, and from what I've seen immediately after the war ended they weren't like "Oh yeah, screw those slaver jedi, they had it coming." they were like "Hey, those guys were on our side, did they really betray us?" So if the majority of the clones didn't have an issue with it, I don't see why you do.

Yeah, the Book of Sith is a nice all around buy. It jumps through about 5 different perspectives in different points of the timeline, one of them being Darth Malgus from TOR, so it gives you a lot of info.

This is more of an argument that cloning itself is evil, because those Mandalorian clones were bred for war. They were raised and age too quickly to have a normal life (which is why Palpatine orders more to be grown after he creates the Empire in "Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader"). They were also bred with orders and didn't seem to have any issues with their duties. The only time we ever really see a clone trooper argue with orders is when Order 66 is issued, which should tell you something. The Jedi and troopers had inside jokes, the Jedi were respected by them if not completely understood, and vice versa. If the Jedi stopped using the clones, they would have lost the war. And the point is that the entire Clone Wars, including growing the clones, was orchestrated by Palpatine/Sidious to put the Jedi in a situation where they would lose on all sides: spiritually by being in a war which they are morally against, physically by Order 66, and plus if you want to count the whole ritual towards the dark side that Palpatine and their master did, it really makes it difficult to judge anything the Jedi did during the Clone Wars. They lost, Palpatine won, the end. No need to blame the victims, I'm sure they realized their faults as they were being shot in the back.

I mean, I think the question itself is a bit pointless. You can argue Sith are not morally evil purely because you can be a light side sith, which, while still being a killer and whatever else, do what they do for the glory of the empire and not themselves. They won't kick someone just because they're down or shock someone for the heck of it, they are straight and to the point. So I don't really agree with the Sith being evil, but I also don't think the opposite of that is misunderstood. You can understand how their culture works and not agree with it, doesn't have to make them evil.

The structure of the Empire keeps the powerful on top and the weak on the bottom. The backstabbing disorder that is so prevalent also helps prevent leaders and the Empire as a whole from becoming stagnant, which, if you remember from Kotor days, was a big problem of the Republic. "A culture achieves definition in conflict. They find themselves, or find themselves lacking." While it may be done sadistically and with little remorse, the Sith do in fact keep the Empire strong because the strong and ambitious are constantly trying to back stab their superiors and replace them, between their duties of course . Now, the Sith do indeed have evil tendencies. I don't believe you can say they are all evil, but I do think you could argue most of them are evil. They are indeed sadistic, they do believe in slavery, but it is important to remember it's a system where even a slave can become a Sith Lord given the opportunity. And not every Sith Lord is as bad as the other, so there's a bit of wiggle room in morality. So, do I want to live in the Empire? Nope. But are the Sith keeping the Empire strong so the decent people within it can have a good life? Yes.

I'm pretty sure Darth Nihilus has to make this list somehow. He wiped out a world and had the potential to wipe out all life if he hadn't encountered another wound in the force like him.

The idea was that the Sith would hide until they took their revenge on the Jedi, hence "Revenge of the Sith". The Rule of Two was in place to keep the Sith order intact and, ideally, gaining strength until this could happen. Palpatine did bring them back into power, even if he was egotistical and power hungry, so the Rule didn't have to continue any longer.