Polymerize
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Posts posted by Polymerize
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As for the OP: how does Force Speed in stealth make any sense? If anything, Scamper makes Operatives more comparable with Assassins regarding mobiility. They've really needed this for the past year.
Dude. Force speed has a CD.
This ability has no CD, am I right? da ***qqq
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sorry, i misstyped. Concealment does kinetic damage. Before because it was tech it bypassed shields. Now it will be absorbed by them. It will be complete crap against tanks.
He is talking about the scamper ability.... what are you smoking?
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what?
LMAO
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Bump.
And I'm not so sure about the door being 20 seconds. I'll test it out tmrw.
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I like the teleport idea. Adds another ability into the game for intelligent individuals/teams to optimize. Less button pushing, more brain power and strategy.
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There's a mentor on fleet that will boost you directly to level 55. Think the only requirement was being able to visit the fleet.
Love this. Will give me the chance to try out some classes I have never leveled to 50, without having to go through the BS leveling.
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Wow this sounds awesome then!!!! I'm uber excited. Too bad I have to go study Heat Transfer. FML
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I'm new to this whole PTS deal.
I can or cannot copy a 50 to that server at this moment in time?
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I am saying that this is a misleading rule because the defenders, if they are good, will ALWAYS halt a transition. The alternate situation (them not halting you) never happens. Unless you are playing against a bad team, there will never be an opportunity to just stun and CC the defenders as you take a door. The Ops/Sins/Sorcs/Mars will just mess up the transition and eat time.
Your other rules are (more or less) universalizable regardless of the skill of the enemy team. Against both good and bad teams, you always want to time your kills on offense, protect the door intelligently on defense, and be aware of the respawn timer for both (yes, there's more to it than that, but I am just summarizing).
But the transition rule should just be "Kill the defenders" instead of "Kill the defenders if halted"; they will ALWAYS halt you unless they are bad. If they are bad, your killing them isn't going to make you lose the match. If they are good, attempts to halt them are just going to waste your own offensive clock. If players waste their time trying to CC good defenders, not killing them immediately, the defenders will have that much more HP with which they can work to mess up the offense.
I understand the points you are making.
Let me start by stating that this guide is not specifically for RATED teams; it is for PUGs and RATEDs alike.
That being said, let me say that I agree with you. If both teams are doing EVERYTHING they should be doing; Attackers should not be able to Transition through the map to the next bomb and arm it without being halted. Why is this? It is because Attackers and Defenders have equal advantage to progress to the bridge after the first set of doors have been armed (with the slight disadvantage to Defenders who die after during the 20 seconds that the bomb is ticking down since they will be in their respawn chamber), because both teams will have an equal amount of CC to use at their discretion.
So yes, two good teams versus each other will try to counteract each other.
Defenders will use CC to stop Attackers from progressing; therefore halting them.
Attackers will use CC to stall Defenders in order to Transition.
The fact of the matter is, teams are not doing EVERYTHING they should in order to give themselves the biggest advantage they can get to prepare for a Transition. I've watched numerous Rated matches in which after a bomb is armed, Attackers and Defenders essentially split sides of the map and progress up opposite corridors to the bridge.
>Defenders down the corridor on the side opposite of the bomb that is armed.
>Attackers down the corridor on the side that the bomb was armed.
Attackers are too concerned with the bomb getting disarmed.
If a bomb ever gets disarmed, its a complete fluke. 3 Attackers should be able to hold off 7 Defenders from trying to disarm the bomb.
Defenders are too concerned with dying in the attempt to disarm the bomb or stall the Attackers from progressing right after the bomb has blown.
They will spawn without being able to try to stall the Attackers at the bridge because they spawn on the other side of the bridge.
I was going to include in this as I continued to beef up the guide, but you beat me to the issue.
As Attackers, you need to prepare for Transition Mode to begin.
Attackers should send teammates down both corridors. Attackers should never send everyone down one corridor in the attempt to choke the Defenders by the damage buff (by the bridge) because each team will be progressing up the map equally fast and Attackers will easily be halted if they try to CC Defenders at that late of a point in the Transition.
Attackers should try to CC/stall the Defenders at the door that was not armed as soon as the doors blow off.
Once again, Defenders do not want to go to the side that was armed because they will be afraid to die right after the bomb is armed because they will spawn and be out of the battle for an extended period of time. (this could actually work to their advantage ultimately, but will it lead to the Attackers getting the bridge quicker.)
So in the situation that Defenders try to counteract the Attackers stalling the side of the map that was not armed by sending Defenders to stall the side that was armed, at that point you will want to kill the Defender(s) that try to stall the Attackers. I rarely see this situation though it is the correct move for Defenders to make.
This will be explained in much more detail in the guide; such as what Classes would be best to send as Attackers to stall the Defenders on the side of the map that was not armed, what should you do as Attackers if the Defenders are alive and halt you at the bridge, what should you do as Defenders if you do stall the Attackers at the bridge, how Attackers/Defender should prepare for Transition Mode during the 20 seconds the bomb is ticking, etc.
So ktkenshin, in a short answer to: "I am saying that this is a misleading rule because the defenders, if they are good, will ALWAYS halt a transition." I will state that if both teams are doing as they should and are splitting up down both corridors, no good team will allow another team to Transition past the bridge without any interruption.
But until Defending teams prepare for Transition Mode by sending players down both corridors, Transitions will have a considerable percentage of being successful by Attackers. This is because Attacking teams do send people down both corridors because they realize even if they die it will be an advantage to them since they will spawn further ahead in the map.
So yes, if the 'accepted strategy' by all Rated teams changes from sending Defenders down the -safe side- to sending Defenders down both sides, Transition Mode will be hard to implement in RATEDs.
Thanks for bringing up some valid points for RATEDs!
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In my WZ experience, it turns out that this strategy only works against a) bad players and/or b) players who aren't using classes. I strongly discourage it.
Decent players, if allowed to live, will hold a transition mode force field for up to 2 minutes; I do it all the time on my Scrapper because people just try to CC without actually killing me. That lets me restealth, drop a bombardment on one console, and then harass the other console. And that's even after every other ally on my side is dead on the transition side of the force field, let alone all the time wasted killing those allies.
Here is a list of classes that really need to be killed because a decent player will be able to stop a force field opening. Heck, even an average or subpar player can use these classes to really mess up your transition mode offense.
1) Scoundrels: Evasion --> Disappearing Act is a nightmare for attackers. So is Flashbang. So is Freighter Flyby. So is Thermal Grenade. So is Sleep Dart.
2) Shadows: Shroud (Especially 5second Shroud) + Speed + Force Cloak is also a nightmare. Mind Maze is also just as problematic as Sleep Dart (although it is less spammable)
3) Sages: Fadeout Speed removes all slows/snares and grants slow/snare immunity. Good Bubbling can keep a team locked down for 6 seconds on its own. Force Wave has a big range, doesn't have to be aimed, and takes everyone off the door.
4) Marauders (don't know the Pub ability names): Intimidating Roar + Force Camouflage + Charge can really keep the attackers tangled up.
Just trying to CC lock these guys is a great way to get your offense stuck for 2+ minutes on a bridge. Just focusing offensive resources into murdering them outright gets you the bridge in 30-45 seconds.
Ultimately, it's a gamble. If you kill them, you have a much better chance of taking the bridge in a much shorter time. But then you won't get your awesome transition push against understaffed defenders on a door; everyone will have just respawned. On the other hand, if you don't kill the defenders in transition mode, you might be able to make a nice transition attack past the bridge...or you might get tangled up and waste a ton of time. The gamble is still balanced on the side of the first option, just because if you took the first door you probably have the resources to take the second door given enough time. Gambling on the second option can really cut into that badly needed time.
I state that if your Transition is halted, you should proceed to wipe out all Defenders. I stated the specific situation you allude to here:
"Transition Mode starts the moment after the first set of bomb doors have blown up. Transition Mode will stay in effect until either your team's transition is halted, or your team reaches the end of the map and arms the last set of bomb doors.
Examples of a team's transition getting halted.
> Your team arms the first bomb. It blows up. Your team transitions poorly and does not open the bridge before Defenders get to the bridge. You must now wipe out all of the Defenders in order to open the bridge.
> Your team arms the second bomb. It blows up. Your team transitions poorly and does not open the barriers before Defenders get to the barriers. You must now wipe out all of the Defenders in order to open the barriers.
> Your team arms the first bomb. It blows up. Your team transitions well to the bridge and opens it before Defenders can get to the bridge. One of your teammates does not know the rules of Transition Mode and he kills a Defender after the first set of bomb doors have blown up. Your teammates that have made it across the bridge already do not successfully arm the second set of bomb doors because the Defender that was killed has already spawned and stalls your team until the rest of the Defenders make it across the bridge. You must now apply your Attacker's Golden Rules in order to arm the second set of bomb doors because your transition has been halted."
So if the Transition Mode is halted, you must kill all Defenders; and then revert back to your Golden Rules.
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imo the reason it isn't used more is because you can't use it while stealthed, and if it ends before the operative gets in position, he can't use his opener
Well, in the situations I am thinking of, the operative would not use Infiltrate until the moment before the big battle is about to commence so time should not be an issue.
And the last thing you should worry about, is an operative healer being able to get off his opener.
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Best uses include.
- Crossing the bridge with our team on Voidstar. That first crossing of the bridge is full of AoE and KBs.
- Switching your focus on Novare, Civil War and Ancient Hypergate. Deciding to abandon mid for example and have your team attack another node. They can spot a group of 4 ocming and have atleast 10 secondes to call that "inc 4 grass" and have reinforcements in no time. But 4 cloaked appearing on the node has got to be impossible to stop.
It is nice to hear about a team at least using Infiltrate for transitions during a rotation; but...
I'm thinking 'Infiltrate' can be useful in ways that teams have not discovered/implemented as of yet.
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My problem now is I'M NOT GETTING ANY VS!!! I swear, I've gotten like 1 since you put this guide out. How the heck am I supposed to practice this? I think it's a conspiracy by Bioware. Now that you've dissected their map, they are going to stop popping it.
You should do a guide for AHG. I get those all the time now (which is fine, because I like that map).
AHG will probably be the last map I make a guide for; I have not played a ton since that map came out so I have not really broken it down to an intricate level.
I hope you get some Voidstars soon and let me know how these strategies work for you.
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NIcely done.
For attacking, my new strat (after learning about the "ticks" on the door, thx to Polymerize) is to sit in view of both the door and the defending respawn door. There you can count ticks, burst down at the right time, CC someone that's going for a friend capping the door etc. In the first zone, you can even be next to a pilar while watching both, meaning you'll be able to abuse the LoS.
Nice guide Poly!
Thanks! I'm excited and motivated to know that some people understand the message I'm trying to convey; and are more importantly trying to implement it into their gameplay.
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Let me introduce a thought.
Instead of using 'Infiltrate' right as your team exists the spawn, why not use it right before the two teams are about to collide?
Anybody like to elaborate on how useful it would be for the other team to not be able to target your team?
Like on a Novare Coast for example.
Team A versus Team B.
Team A does not use infiltrate at all. Team B uses infiltrate.
Both teams use Predation from the start of the match.
Team A makes it to the middle node slightly before Team B. (Team B has a 15% speed reduction due to the blanket.)
Team B has the opportunity to target all members from Team A.
Team A can target no one on Team B.
What advantages would this give Team B? In what ways could Team B coordinate their attack to CC and blaze down members of Team A?
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Blanket.
It's called infiltrate. It lasts 15 seconds and cannot be used if you are in combat or in stealth. It could be a trick, but I believe the overall effectiveness would be negligible.
Just to clarify to all readers, including myself. Could you supply us with all information regarding the ability? Such as how many total Attackers can be hidden by the blanket? How far does the range extend? Is it really 15% speed reduction or is it some other value?
(I'm in class typing on an iPhone or else the topic would be introduced in a much more informative manner.)
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I'm chilling in P-Chem right now bored out of mind so I will introduce a topic.
Does any guild or Rated team strategize with the Operative stealth blanket?
The normal refute to not using it is, 'the speed of the team is decreased so it is not good for the team.'
I feel as if this disadvantage is negligible. Your speed is reduced by 15%. Big whoop. Negligible effect.
There are numerous advantages to revolving some strategy around this ability that I can think of. I'd like to know some thoughts from the community about what advantages you could have as a team from developing some strategy coupled with this ability.
I will introduce some thoughts as the thread progresses.
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I would fully support text macros.
Combat macros? Nah.
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I like your guide, and follow many of the rules. I will frequently type "slow, don't kill" after the doors go down. One problem with your door timing advice. If you are the defending team, and position every member away from the spawn door, you theoretically could have no way of watching the door as the attacker.
Not necessarily. Attackers will dictate how Defenders have to position themselves, not vice versa. You'll also have some ranged Attackers that can keep a visual on the door. So you probably will not to depend on a melee Attacker being able to keep your team updated on the door ticks.
Regardless of the scenario, if you understand the logic behind the Golden Rules you'll be able to implement them in your gameplay when it is applicable.
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That will be a nice addition to the thread Spoemeister. Thanks for taking the time to do that, because I would not bring anything to the table when it comes to intuitive information regarding snipers!
(Struggling to find time to finish this guide until I take my tests over the next week. Sapping all of my brain power and time up.
)Should have some more information within the week though.
That being said... BUMP.
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- People who call hacks because they have absolutely no clue what other classes abilities do. (Predation / Speed increase skill points after ability used e.g. Debilitate / Base speed increase skill points e.g. Obfuscation / Force Shroud / yadda yadda)
- The self appointed Warzone hero. The guy who has no clue what he is talking about, has **** strategies, and *****es when they don't work and then starts to harass everyone for doing what he told them to do in the first place. But he has to be the "Pro" and is usually the ops leader in the WZ, so he is totally legit.
- People who wait in the end zone in Huttball thinking that the ball carrier who is getting wailed on from the other side of the fire, or the team mate in the pit can magically throw that far.
+ The stealth classes who think they can stealth with the ball and wonder why they didn't score.
- People who enjoy standing on the ledge of the end zone.
- People who full resolve the ball carrier and his allies before they even get to the first fire pit on the cat walks.
- Single file spawn heroes throwing their bodies into the meat grinder trying to take a node guarded by 3+ players solo.
- People who would rather shoot and hit people than CC to secure a cap.
+ People who think it takes more than one person to cap a node when enemies are coming that they should snare, root, or stun instead of being redundant and behind the first player on the cap time anyway.
- Kill count heroes.
- Damage matters heroes with no objectives and then talk **** at the end of the match.
- People in full WH who don't augment it at all and complain about a gear gap.
- Leaving nodes in Ancient Hypergates and feeding the other team kills in mid.
- No one calling out nodes until they are respawned at base.
- People who abandon post to flock where the action is.
- People who don't know their cardinal directions.
- People who don't focus healers, even when they are clearly marked.
- Tank classes that don't taunt.
- Healers that tunnel vision one player even when they are in no way in danger of dying as the rest of the team falls to the ground.
- People who fight and manage to not attack the person(s) capping a node.
- People who would rather fight than stagger cap in Novare Coast.
- People who complain about getting knocked in fire and acid pits and let everyone know how cheap and cheating it is.
That is all I can think of for now. ;
I second all of this.
Especially "People who think it takes more than one person to cap a node when enemies are coming that they should snare, root, or stun instead of being redundant and behind the first player on the cap time anyway."
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The way things go in this game is - if you offer logical strategies and tactics to the team during the game, and something goes wrong; anything at all, you'll get flamed the rest of the game. That's the way it works for me anyways.
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Good thread.
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Now this is what I'm talking about! A detailed guide. Can't wait to see breakdowns like these on all the maps... I, for example, feel like a complete idiot in the Hypergate warzone, where I only kill people and bring orbs to our pylon.
A job well done, I'm glad to see you've improved your means of communications in just a couple of days!
EDIT: would love to see class- and tree specific tips on this warzone.
For example: there's a difference between the use of Markmanship Sniper and the Saboteur Sniper in this warzone.
Thanks! I appreciate it, really.
& yes I'll be working my way towards class specific tips, except for snipers! Because I have never rolled a sniper; perhaps you could post some info with regards to that?
Ranked Testing?
in PvP
Posted
Agreed.