Alastairz
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Posts posted by Alastairz
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Heavy armor looks good but the rakata items just don't feel like sith warrior at all, they urgently need a cape//hood or some cloth on it.
You mean my Droid Juggernaut needs a cape?
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im looking at your link now. Was working, didn't mean to seem rude for not replying.. thx for the post, ill get back to u after i read it.
just looked into .... the graphs are great ... they really help. and for the most part I am (realistically) where i'm suppose to be.. saving the charts and thank you once again
I meant for anyone in general, not exclusively you
All credit for the spreadsheet goes to Argath
Are you sure you posted the correct numbers for your stats, specifically the rating numbers? They seem very high. Mine looks something like this (i'm using the hybrid vengeance spec to try it out):
7100 armor
49.99% Damage Reduction
370 Defense rating
120 shield rating
88 absorb rating
120 accuracy
90 surge
That gives a total of 788 stat points to distribute. Maybe I missed some, I'll have to write it all down. Would be nice to have a SWTOR-armory...
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Yes 6 years worth...not 2 months.
I don't understand your reply - do you mean that BioWare must start from a blank slate and not look to other tried and tested models to derive any sort of helpful information?
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An AOE pull would be neat too, but so would unicorns juggling lightsabers
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Jugs don't need a pull.
If you have trouble positioning large mobs then you are just a bad tank in general.
How to position huge mobs with large hitboxes.
1. Find out where the center of mass is relative to how far back he stands from you.
2. Find out how far you need to back pedal to get him to follow.
3. Run in a circle around him to rotate him on the center of mass without moveing him.
4. Be good tank.
I don't get why you people are having so much trouble with this.
God's gift to earth right there. I have goosebumps
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Again I have to say that this isn't a self improvement issue (which I would be fine declaring if that was the case), it is a quality improvement for the game mechanics. I can compensate for this threat imbalance just fine, and I have been all along. You misunderstand if you think that I taunt juggle with the DPS through the whole fight.
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TL;DR: I think the Jugg is fine. I can tank just fine. Perhpas you should try to improve your self instead of asking for more abillities?
Thats actually exactly how I read your post, you still get a passing grade for clarity.
Again I have to say that this isn't a self improvement issue (which I would be fine declaring if that was the case), it is a quality improvement for the game mechanics. I can compensate for this threat imbalance just fine, and I have been all along. You misunderstand if you think that I taunt juggle with the DPS through the whole fight.
The original idea of "please boost immortal threat" is just one way of handling what is going on; it may not be the best or even a permanent way to help with the flow of the game, but it is a start in the right direction.
Other ideas:
- Target of target: this way you can see who took aggro without having to find out when their face gets smashed in
- Interceding on an enemy will jump to their target: this is more along the lines of what the skill is supposed to do, IMHO
- Meters: I'm a big fan of dps/threat/healing/etc meters, but I am not marching around waving the flag of "OMG NEED RECOUNTZ".
- Threat level indication: Percentage indicator, red/yellow/green, etc.. whatever way you can see your threat level on the target
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erm EV, the council boss - find same HP mobs and see who kills them quicker - eays :>
Exactly what I was thinking
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+982340928309482093. It seems the OP's mind is made up. Rather than taking any advice on the forums this is his way of thinking "I tanked in games X Y and Z therefore I am the greatest tank. If I can't do it in this game it must be the game not me."
Someone take a picture, two lamebrains are holding hands.
What advice are you here to give? When did I say I was the greatest tank, or even a good tank?
If you are using a rotation while tanking... you fail. SWTOR tanking is based on priority NOT rotations set in stone.If I mentioned a rotation, I'm pretty sure I qualified it as a whack-a-mole rotation, where you just use the most useful skill based on threat, survivability, or resource generation.
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Where did i say that?
Somewhere around here: "The Jugg is fine, really. "
I started by posing a question, to give you a perspective on the matter. Do you really want to just stand still and get free aggro, or do you actually enjoy a challenge? Do you want the game to play for you, or do you want to play it your self?Here was your perspective: "NEWS FLASH: Everyone complains about something. Complaining does not mean something is broken. With that said, shape the f*ck up."
I don't see any question marks in there, so how did you pose a question? You just said "l2play whiner noob"
Yes, I want the game to play itself, I love watching video game movies on my gaming laptop... (this is sarcasm) I jump into combat and then mash my face on the keyboard and wonder why I lose aggro. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? (this is also sarcasm) What do you picture in my mind when I say there is a problem with threat? That I pull the boss and never get him back again? That I start the fight with a taunt and the instant it wears off my group is running for their lives? Yeah, I facerolled my way into all of my columi/rakata gear.
Then i proceeded by stating my own opinion. Perhaps i was misstaken. Perhaps you're only allowed to whine in this thread.Whine and apparently throw underhanded jabs.
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I agree that tanking is not really that big of an issue. I think WoW has spoiled players because in that game you just pretty much grab aggro in the beginning and never lose it.
I like the fact that I have to work hard to keep aggro. It means you have to focus on making sure that you are using the correct skills at all times.
I can't comment on the hybrid spec as I have not used it yet, but so far 31/10/0 immortal spec seems to be working just fine for me.
No - it was still possible to lose aggro in WoW depending on which patch it was, but there were ways to monitor your threat levels and adjust accordingly.
I'd love to hear what you think the differences are between my tanking and your tanking. I charge in, stand around picking my nose, and type "?? *** ??" in genearal chat when I lose aggro... That must be what you think is going on.
The fact of the matter is that this is still a new game that has a lot of balancing issues to go through, and I find it amazing that when one of them is brought up by many people that there are dissenters who want nothing of the sort to take place. If you are so happy with the game then go play it and quit posting here to serve your e-ego's.
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Really, no replies? I thought this was some good info!!
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I know I won't ever win a war with people that are 'beginners' or refuse to adapt on the internet in a video game - it's just not possible. People will parse until something is nerfed, adjusted or changed.
Yeah, because I have nothing better to do than make up wild accusations and rig the game for my own benefit. Do you think before you type this stuff? What you just said is "you are all complaining self-serving noobs". Get off your high horse and pull your head out of your ***. Immortal Juggernaut threat DOES NOT PROPERLY SCALE AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. It's close to right, but not quite.
I got no threat problems and I don't consider myself hardcore or super pro-player (ofc talking single target), yet it won't matter since people will just say 'i had no tank issues in other game, here I do so please fix it'It is entirely possible for a player to not experience this problem given the correct group makeup (DPS player actions and gear level).
What I find interesting is that you agree that there needs to be a rework on the threat for this class but you keep flaunting that you have no problems with it. Then in the next breath you complain about people who are bringing up the issue. WHICH IS IT?
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NEWS FLASH: Everyone complains about something. Complaining does not mean something is broken.
With that said, shape the f*ck up. Tanking is not supposed to be easy. You should have to fight and be on your toes to keep aggro and stay alive. Why else would you play as a tank? Just to stand there and get free aggro?
Now, i'm playing as a juggernaut tank and i'm loving it. If i'm on the ball and really watching my skills and rotation, i can hold the aggro just fine. Sure i loose it from time to time, but then i just taunt back and focus harder. And yes, i'm currently undergearing our DPS by alot.
The Jugg is fine, really.
And just because you say it's fine it's fine. Case closed.
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Ad quote - You can know how to drive a car, but you don't have to know how to drive a car with a rear drive or in dirt conditions. That I guess was the message of the quote.
If BH and SA have the same problems tanking, please let me know. Otherwise the analogy doesn't fit since we would have 3 different cars on the road ;-)
Ad my tanking and dps - I don't believe my dps was bad or I out-geared them since we cleared for example KP and EV on nightmare with 14 people, means we would hit enrages everywhere with bad dps.broken game is broken
Also I was gearing for my columi in HMs in which I came with just basic questing gear while others were already full epic//columi.If you say you never had any problems tanking, then who am I to disagree. There just happens to be a number of other players who do have threat issues playing immortal juggernaut that seem to point to a bigger issue. "Where there's smoke..."
EDIT: erm sorry I forgot to post anything on what I do so that I do not have problems with threat. - I use taunt often on fights or phases that do not need me take adds or grab boss back, found that this works for this game. Rotation then becomes less important, making only things that apply debuffs and buff yourself priority in it.I agree, and that's actually what I have been doing to help prevent loss of aggro
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I've been sticking it out in hopes Bioware opens their eyes to see the problem.
My juggernaut has ALL rakata gear on. We've cleared all but SoA on Nightmare due to the new aggro bug. I've been tanking the whole time. Yes it's possible.
Single target atm, I am starting to have a few issues here and there due to our dps getting full sets of gear.
AoE threat is a total joke. Yes i know most people are saying AoE threat doesn't count in raids. But there are people who like to do Hardmodes and hold threat as a tank, not wander around aimlessly with one mob on you, trying to pick up the others as they widdle down your dps.
I've been patient with Bioware when they said 2 months ago in Beta, that they were aware of Jug/Guardian problems and would be giving them an overhaul. Here we are 2 months later and nothing has changed, with the exception of force push resetting the cooldown on force charge and lowering the cooldown on endure pain (LOL).
Some say our dps is low, well as a tank, i could care less about the damage im doing, as long as im holding threat. All I really ask is they increase our stance to 100% and increase the area of affect on smash (5 meters) compared to the other 2 tanks that have an 8-10 meter range and add some threat modifiers to our attacks. Is this to much to ask? to have threat so a tank can actually do his job and hold aggro?
All the people who are saying, "Quit your QQ'ing", "Learn to play" and "Tell your dps to pick off small mobs first." bla bla bla. Why should it have to be such an issue to hold area threat as a tank?
I firmly believe now that they have no intentions on doing anything with this class and they believe they are working as intended. I just wish they would rename the class to something that more fits them, something similiar to a character name I saw on my server, "Juggerernot!"
Quoted for truth
If you go back over the WoW patches and look at threat it has always been a changing issue. Don't you think the wisdom of such a development team as theirs would have GOOD REASON to set threat levels to 600% for a patch or two? (lol you can read that in so many ways, gg blizzard)
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To the naysayers of the hybrid spec, you are just wrong, if you have issues surviving you healers have to suck, cause mine seem to think all around raids have been smoother since I dropped immortal build.
Would you still play that build if the 4% endurance boost was on the immortal tree instead? Just curious. I think most hybrid tanks are "lol-look-at-mah-healthz"
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Quoting someone from other thread: "Your experience with tanks in other games give you jack-**** here, this is SWTOR, a new game with different system and the fact that you come here complaining proves how good of a tank you are"
That is just a quote, take it as you would like, for me - I've cleared the content long time ago if something changed in last couple of weeks let me now.
To your quote, its funny but conceited and borderline delusional - of course my experience as a tank in other games gives me authority to speak on tanking in another game, the concept is the same. To think otherwise proves how good you are at logic.
To your own statement, did you consider that other tanks in the game are trying to level/gear up with possibly another DPS in the group that far out-gears them? I'd wager that you completed the content with players you were equally geared or more geared than. That, and you might have even been playing with BAD DPSers who can't put out the right damage!
For anyone who says "just let the tank get 5 seconds of threat in the beginning" has probably not been in enough boss fights where every second counts.
I would eat the humble pie if I was knowingly or unknowingly playing the game wrong, but I'm not the only one having this problem with threat.
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I NEVER had single target threat issues ever on normal or hardmode ops and survivabilty is more important than holding aggro of every silver mob in fps....
Maybe you always had equal or higher gear than your DPS counterparts...
When I hit 50 on my juggernaut, I got lost in what I was supposed to actually be doing at max level. The Ilum quests were boring and the whole daily commendation grind is a horrible horrible joke. So I started leveling an operative healer. After doing some research on what the hell I was supposed to be doing to prepare for OPS I decided to go back to my tank to do Flashpoints. I found that the DPS I was picking up already had a large jump on me with gear. While I would conceed the point that I should not expect to keep threat from overgeared (or itchy trigger finger) DPS players, at this stage in the game it does not seem to serve well that immortal juggernaut tanks should have such a hard time with single targets for any reason. They are supposed to be the tank of tanks, melee brute force meat shields that keep the attention of even the biggest boss.
Fast forward to now - I'm in full tioneese/columni/rakata gear and if I miss a single piece of my "rotation" (i'd call it whack-a-mole instead) then I lose threat to the DPS. STILL. At first I was willing to think that I was a super bad newbie that hadn't gotten the hang of a new game, but now I'm convinced that immortal juggernaut threat is in need of repair.
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I play an immortal juggernaut tank and I whole heartedly agree that it needs a boost to threat. I have done EV and KP only once or twice but I have done Flashpoint HM's enough to be in all Tioneese/Columni/Rakata (crafted) gear. I leveled from 10 to 50 as immortal juggernaut.
I have extensive play experience in other games as a tank, and this one is definately broken at the moment when it comes to threat generation.
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Found a good link:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=288619
and the OP Agrath created a spreadsheet
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5556607/Tanking%20Stat%20Distribution%20Analysis.xlsx
looks like you should stack defense until you get to 500 rating, then go for absorb and shield, first at a 2:1 ratio, then later at a 5:4 ratio with more in your pool of stat points. Thats if I understand the charts correctly...
So you have a total of 1172 stat points that should be
500 defense
359 absorb
313 shield
EDIT : Dangit - I missed the part of the spreadsheet where he put an imaginary cap on defense at 500. Basically the chart scales all the way up to 800 defense then it falls back a little with absorb being introduced and shield
So you have a total of 1172 stat points that should be
736 defense
260 absorb
176 shield
I'm not sure its even possible to reach 736 defense....
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Alright so since the release I've played this one character and have always been tank speced. I feel comfortable with the class and I haven't had a complain from others about my tanking. The issue I'm having is understanding what EXACTLY is the optimum percentages or ratings for our defense statistics. As of right now my stats are..
20580 Health (this includes the Biochem Rakata Fort Stim)
7502 Armor
46.99 Dmg Reduction
this is where i gets tricky...
25.49% defense chance (535 rating)
44.65% shield chance (422 rating)
39.14% absorb chance (215 rating)
if you want to see my spec its down there...
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101fMGcurrozRZhGo.1
ANY feedback will be considered... let me know, help me out... and plz dont post any formulas about the stats... If you know the sweet spot of a stat let me know (by sweet spot i mean the point right before investing into the stat that the benefits still outweigh the diminishing return... hopefully that made sense).. thanks to anyone who helps..
Your question is actually way more complicated than it may seem on the surface. What needs to be considered is not only your gear but also the fights you will be in. For instance, a tech heavy fight versus a melee heavy fight with pushback and slows. There are going to be so many "sweet spots", as you said, that they will become irrelevant unless you have multiple gear-sets. You also did not post your accuracy, which should NEVER be neglected. You can have 99% in all defensive stats, but if you miss the boss you will lose aggro and thus still be a bad tank.
I've stumbled across some semi-theorycrafting threads but they mostly come down to pen and paper theoretical math and vaccum situation simulations, neither of which should be definitive agrument for any specific "best stats". I would venture to say that you would want to find out which stats diminish the quickest, which I think is what you were trying to ask in the first place.
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Very simple three step fix:
1 - Soresu form needs to be 100% threat increase instead of 50%
2 - Sweeping slash additionally needs to REFRESH sunder stacks (not APPLY)
3 - Sundering slash needs to have 500% more threat applied with the stacks (when the stacks fall off, threat will drop)
This is balanced and adds a threat mechanic that forces the tank to choose what sticks to him. Want a that group of 4 mobs to stay around? BETTER SUNDER THEM QUICK
I started playing WOW when Wrath of the Lich King came out and my main character was a warrior. By the time I left at the end of Firelands patch I had tanked every raid with my warrior and DK. I have also tanked many heroics with my paladin and druid. Each class had its plusses and minuses (depending on which way the nerf bat swung). It really feels like Immortal Juggernauts are very poor threat generators, along with what I'm willing to bet is the worst DPS of any talent tree in the game. But the DPS isn't my concern really since we (theoretically) have such good mitigation (I have come to doubt that a little, but thats for another thread I think).
What I have experienced through leveling my juggernaut using the immortal tree is that leveling was not really bad at all until mid 40's when I seemed to hit a gear gap (probably my own fault). I skipped most flashpoints (read first statement about gear gap, haha) and had to solo them at 50 so I can't comment on lower level group tanking other than the various 2~4 man quests. I think that introducing the above changes will help immortal juggernaut tanks of all levels.
TLDR; - boost threat by using the sunder mechanic plz
I posted this in another thread and just wanted to keep it from being buried.
The theory would be a rotation like this in a multi-mob scenerio:
Charge/enrage (whatever the skills are called) > smash > sunder > sweep > retaliaiton > tab target + sunder > force scream > sweep > tab target + sunder > smash > retaliation
Something along those lines. I'd save the hard hitting sunder for main targets since it consumes so much rage, and sweep is already a rage drain. Sometimes I have to assault (basic attack) but it's rare since sunder is so much better IMO.
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I was asking for an immortal threat boost because I'm already aware of the Vengeance Hybrid build. I think it's interesing but seems gimmicky at best and highly situational. Without DPS/threat/mitigation/healing/etc meters it is all a pen and paper numbers game that cannot be relied on but so much.
The crux of the problem is that what is supposed to be the tanking tree is broken, which forces players to look for gimmicks and cheap tricks to play the game (to agree with your wanting to quit rant).
Juggernaut/Guardian tanks Could use a Threat buff
in Combat Styles
Posted