Hi Dev's I know you guys will not want not to put a date on ranked wz's because it will lead to more discontent if its not met but if we could get an update on when you think ranked wz's will be introduced that would be great. Without looking too far ahead I would of thought it would be safe to assume that one of the main reasons you pulled it was because a lot of the servers would struggle to get a game without xserver queues so I'm assuming you'll have xserver queueing close to the release of ranked wz's as well.

No thats the exact opposite of what i'm trying to say, just because i didnt talk about healers doesnt mean i dont want them. I actually said i dont like how healers work in wz's atm and i liked it more pre 1.2. What i want is for every dps to b different not just 'sustained damage' with different tooltips and names for their moves. Some should b better at protecting healers, some should be better at taking down ranged classes that when left alone will do ridiculous amounts of damage. In a way it is paper-scissors-rock but with 8 different variables which need to be mixed and matched to get the best TEAM. I actually want there to b a class that is the best 1v1, there always is and always will be. But a champion team should always beat a team of champions and a well balanced team with varying types of dps should beat a team of just mara's or just mara's with a healer or 2. This is probably just a pipe dream but my that is my idea of great balance with exciting gameplay. Anyone can balance pvp, just give everyone the same moves. The real challenge is to have balance with variety

Yes i would like to know if it is like the person stated that even with sneak active can players still detect you from front on if anyone else could confirm coz that is a huge ninja nerf if its true

kiwoo, that may be just me being biased as a sent which i said might happen. But i think any grav round commando would tell you that if u interrupt their grav round they are going to struggle. It sets up all their abilities. Those 6k crits are probably from someone who has full grav round charges on someone else and has used demo round. Like i said, left alone they will eat through teams, targeted, they will do very little damage

Also healers feel free to rage on me and tell me ur not useless, playing with good healers has made me realise they still have their place just not the same as before where it took almost perfect circumstance to bring one down.

Ragnaz i dont understand, r u agreeing with me that you preferred the state of healing before 1.2 or disagreeing

Also Rizael, THANK YOU SO MUCH, ur post is exaclty what i was after and going for u are my hero. Again guys i am obviously in the dark about most classes, i know my class back to front and will back up those opinions till the end of the earth. I posted the other ideas because it would get people talking more than if i just talked about sents. Feel free to call me on anything i said, they are just opinion but all i want to do is generate educated discussion

Thanks Zellata, you could always boost the impact of those heals yes? And if u dont like the idea of them having a healing while damage mechanic what role would you have sorcs play instead. Crazy burst damage but squishy as hell when targeted. I suppose this would be slightly different to snipers and commandos in that they are more sustained dps while poor when targetted. Thoughts? And how would change the class?

No what i said was roll back to how you were pre 1.2 when you could still burst classes down. What I wanted for pvp was for each class to have specific roll, even in dps. I wanted scoundrels to be more ganking orientated but still give a small window for players to avoided being stunlocked and killed, the better players will b able to push them away or cc before they can be stunlocked hence avoiding the intial burst. the better scoundrels will no how to avoid being seen too early even without sneak by timing there run. I also know taht some maybe most scoundrels would prefer sustained dps to burst dps. If thats the case cool how would u fix where they are at atm. This thread is simply my opinion

Thanks for being reasonable unicorn, i may a bit biast because there is a guardian on my server who does great dps, albeit as a focus spec, but he also roled a sage and tops dps post 1.2 every game. He is a very good player, probably the best on server and i shudder to think wat he could do with a mara. You raise a good point with focus/rage spec knights. While i still feel juggs can match maras for dps, they have more defensive cd's which is a bit ridiculous. I made the suggestion of removing the immunity (99% for the people that want to b technical) while lowering camo cd. Do u have any suggestions?

Did i ever at one stage say mara's were not overpowered and need to b nerfed. I agree 100% they are out of control the same goes to tankassassins, if u disagree with me thats cool, i dont know that much about the game, just do like u did then and state why. You are completely correct, i am trying out sent focus and it is ridiculous for aoe spamming with the amount of up time on zen. I can basically use slash as focus builer while hitting 2 targets for 2k crits constantly. I also think there is a bug as some uses of slash seemed to b giving me 3 focus for no reason i have just found this out however and need to read through the class a bit more

Lol unicorn, so i take it u feel like juggs need a buff, thats cool, please state why and in what form or go troll somwhere else. Did I say was almighty and knowing, i actually said the opposite, i said feel free to insult me but have reasons and justify ur insults. Tyrias went about it the right way y cant you grow up and do the same. Its a forum mate, ment for opinions im not dev telling you i'm right, your wrong go suck it if u feel otherwise. I simply enjoy the game and want to get as constructive discussion about class balance as i can. If you want to fix something go about it the right way, yelling and screaming doesnt accomplish anything as u learn when u get past the age of 5. i want the devs to make the game as good as possible i dont expect them to look at my post on juggs from someone who doesnt play one and go yeah that guy knows what hes talking about. I expect educated people who like you said know things about the class to make suggestions and then dev's to read it try and facilitate changes. Idk maybe im leaving in a dream world but im happy over here and i want to stay

Good points tyrius, yeah i probably was biased a lot. Sents do have the most counters with so many defensive cd's so your probably right and I really didnt take into consideration cast time

Also my post was a bit vague on the tanks and they're guarding. I know they have to switch specs and do far less dps as a result, i mainly ment it as the fact its an extra string they have that other dps classes dont =)

cheers electric, yeah basically any changes i suggested are done in mind with changes to all specs. Juggs definitely dont do as much damage as sents but sents do too much as it is so bringing them back should make it more even =). Also my knowledge is obviously not the best in the world, tell me where im wrong with a spec, like i said at the start I only have a 50 sent and all my comparisons are based around them, I dont have any level 50's of other classes. i really just wanted to stimulate good discussion about class balance, and just avoid trolling =)

No I did not forget, just went with the most common specs, kind of have to b practical about it, the post would have been ridiculously long if i went through every single spec. But thanks for your CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Oh and i never claimed to know what i'm talking about, i said from the start this is all my opinion feel free to call me an idiot, but back up ur claims with appropriate facts.

Wow, i did not know that, u guys really got hit hard. Well it follows on from what I was saying, thats a more refined version of my idea =)

WARNING: THIS IS AN EXTREMELY LONG POST, TURN BACK NOW IF YOU DONT REALLY CARE ABOUT CLASS BALANCE Okay let me say a couple of things off the bat a) There is no place for trolls on this post, I aim to have educated discussions about the classes and where they are at, if u want to scream OP and not validate your claims go somewhere else, this isnt place for you b) The state of healers in pvp is completely different issue and while i dont like the fact that i can pretty much mash the keys and kill healers that is a different issue altogether, this post focuses on dps balance. c) By all means tell me I'm wrong, I am not some god of game balance I dont pretend to know everything, and this is all purely opinion, but back your claims up with ideas and evidence to show me a better way and prove I'm wrong. Do not just scream omg your so stupid you have no idea. e)Sorry for the confusion on the abilities, calling every ability by its mirror is something that is beyond me so hopefully you are educated enough on your own classes to know the mirrors and know what I'm talking about. THE CURRENT SPEED OF PVP While I hate the fact that healers currently serve close to no use in pvp I actually really enjoy the faster pace, its more exciting and it actually makes it more competitive. The way mmo pvp is there will always b a tactical aspect to pvp. There r so many classes and variations of classes that unless they give some ungodly buff to damage output there will always b a tactical aspect to pvp where u have to use your abilities to out think your opponent. The way damage is now just means that you have to be quick on your feet and mistakes cost you more dearly. It actually raises the skill cap which I believe was what the aim was. The problem with that in this game is that it has a playerbase which if we're all honest isn't exactly the most skilled group of players, so the bad players are getting rolled quicker which is at least 50% of the population, which results in a lot of QQ. THE CLASSES Again let me state that this is a dps only discussion, I dont know enough about the differences between tank classes to make judgements on them and the state of healing in this game atm is a different issue all together. I would also like to point out that my main is a sent and will be basing all my opinions in relation to a sentinel. Obviously some classes find other classes harder to play than others so my opinions may be biased but thats what a discussion is for . Also I am a firm believer that every class even in dps should have a specified roll, you do not need every class being able to b competitive in a 1v1 to have a viable and balanced game SENTINEL/MARAUDER My sent is my pride and joy and I have loved him since day 1. I obviously the know more about this class so will spend more time on it than the others. Firstly, as of 1.2, sents are OVERPOWERED and quite frankly anyone that says they're not is either a)not playing against any good ones or b) is trying to keep the nerf hammer at bay for as long as possible. This is not to say we are in a state of godmode and no class can possibly kill us. I could name 1 person from almost every class on my server who can do more damage than me, but you have to be the best of the best to beat a mediocre sentinel in 1v1 atm and thats not how it should be. I would like to go on to say that I believe sents should be the best 1v1 class. This DOES NOT mean they should top damage every wz, the 2 are very different things and it is possible to have without the other as it was pre 1.2. A good sent pre 1.2 only feared a tankassasin in a 1v1 duel, they are one of the few classes with the abilities and damage to avoid our cd's and still burn us down. So post 1.2 sents have 2 main problems Survivablity Damage output SURVIVABLITY Guarded by the force was borderline OP before 1.2 but it was counterable. Post 1.2 is ridiculous for 2 reasons a) People now have to use their cc's on masterstrike b) The game is now faster so 5 seconds of immunity is insane. My fix would be to either reduced the duration to 3 seconds, which with a debuff to masterstike would pretty much balance out the class or remove it altogether and also reduce the cd on camo to 30 seconds. I believe that every dps class should have a roll and sents should b to win almost any 1v1's, they need defensive cd's but with the state of the game atm 5 seconds of immunity is 2 powerful. A reduction in the cd of camo would let them get away from the middle of a fight more often and b valuable but not overpowering. DAMAGE OUTPUT For god knows why, masterstrike received a 23% damage increase (when specced) in 1.2. With BM gear mine hits for 4.2-4.9 without crits or boosts. If this crits and you use relics etc you are looking at about 9k damage, if you time this with a critted merc slash you are looking at 13k damage in 3 sec Now this just plain stupid, regardless or whether or not the player is dumb enough to be hit by the full channel it forces the enemy to use a cc or stun or sprint at NO COST to the sentinel. Quite simply the 15% passive buff given must be removed. GUARDIAN/JUGGERNAUT I feel guardians are in a good place atm. They should NOT be the highest damaging class. A good guard will switch between forms and guarding others as well as taunting to reduce the damage done to squishier targets. This combined with their high amount of utility with up to 3 different leaps and various interrupts makes them an extremely useful class. This is not to say they dont do damage. Rage juggs do obscene amount of damage even if it is a lot of aoe damage and they are able to stay alive for as long as any other class thanks to heavy armor and a few good defensive cd's. Feel free to tell me i'm wrong this is simply my opinion =) COMMANDO/MERCENARY My least favourite AC simply because it's rotation is so basic. The recent changes were great for commando's, people can no longer simply spam grav round and get higher dps than half the other classes. They still do an amazing amount of damage when left alone and really tear teams apart. The real skill in using this class is finding a way to always be around team mates (a guy on my server does this brilliantly and always tops dps when left alone) because once they have been targeted, they are finished. This is where I feel they need a slight buff. A great buff would be if sticky grenade made its target unable to cast any interrupting abilities. This at least gives people something to think about when facing a commando because atm, all people need to do is interrupt grav round and there dps is shot. Obviously some tweaks may be needed to the cd of sticky and how long it on the target but this to me is a great buff that makes the class that bit more interesting to play and slightly more survivability if they get targeted VANGUARD/POWERTECH Again, these guys are in a good spot right now, they no longer have the ability to do back to back high impact bolts for off the charts burst damage but still do some solid damage. These guys are basically the opposites of Juggs, a ranged dps tank class. They shouldnt do as much damage as a sent/sniper/commando/assassin because they have the added utility of taunting and guarding which makes a huge difference to a team fight. If anything was to be changed, I would increase the effectiveness or length of taunt to make that side of their game more important and viable in pvp. SCOUNDREL/OPERATIVE I feel so sorry for you guys. There is nothing wrong with a burst class that is able to burst you down as long as if they want to use their stealth cooldown to do increased burst they need to be sure there is no one else around coz they wont survive long after that. This was pretty much the state of play pre 1.2. If you want to guard a tower on your own and you know there is a good op around, you should be ******** your pants in anticipation of being floored and killed before you can stand up, I dont see a problem with this. It provides a niche for an important and fun aspect of pvp. Right now they simply don't have the burst to kill with increased cd to backstab and a nerf to their crit rates and overall damage. Although it would never happen ideally I'd like them to rollback to pre 1.2 with a couple of changes. Instead of nerfing their damage, i would nerf their ability to get into position in the 1st place. Double the cd of sneak, and make it easier to detect stealth for every class. Even without sneak it is almost impossible to react quick enough when you hear that sound of stealthed op. Keep the uniqueness of the ganking class but make it harder for them to gank so it places more emphasis on the ganking and less on sustained dps. Like I said before every class should have a roll, dont turn every class into the same thing with different abilities, ITS BORING. GUNSLINGER/SNIPER How I love these guys. A perfect example of a class filling a unique roll as a dps class. Leave them alone at your peril, because they will destroy teams and in particular sents, especially in a team setting. If you have one of these guys in your line-up, you should do everything you can to keep other players off of them and watch them do some insane damage. Having said that they could probably do with a slight increase to damage, AND I MEAN SLIGHT. In my ideal world they do more damage than sentinels but like commando's struggle when targetted. Something small like doubling the effect of either lethality or marksmanship for that slight boost to crit chance or accuracy SAGE/SORCERER Going to receive a bit of hate for this one but there are only a couple of changes I would make to the class. I actually didnt mind the hybrid spec pre 1.2. Sure they did crazy AoE damage but like I've said before, that was their niche. No other class could damage group targets like they could with insta chain lightning. However instead of that, how about we run down the path of a ranged dot healing class, the anti-sent. Make death-field effect allies as well only allies caught in it are healed by your dots in the same way sorcs are. To go with their unprecedented cc they now heal the team while doing damage, like the sentinel. They still do amazing damage when not targeted, I'm sorry but anyone saying they don't needs to L2P and adapt to the changes. One guy in my guild is pretty much always top of the dps charts, the only difference in 1.2 is you cant spam lightning anymore like commando's spam grav round and hope to do the same dps. SHADOW/ASSASSIN The ONLY class in 1.2 that compete against a sent in a 1v1, the tankassassin. So obvious logic follows that if sents are OP and assassins can compete with them they are definitely OP as well. I have no problems with these guys being able to compete with sents 1v1, there needs to be at least 1 other class that can but the tank/damage build is ridiculous when combined with the fact they can go invisibile. This is the class I know the least about so I feel any suggestions made by me that combat the tank spec with dps armour would be pretty uneducated so some suggestions by everyone else would be appreciated. If I was to take one stab it would to lower the effects of harness darkness, their tier 6 skill. Possibly remove a stack from that or simply reduce the increased damage effects to shock and you would see a large decrease in the amount of dps and burst they are able to do. THANKS Anyone that actually read the whole thing deserves a medal and I really appreciated it. If you want to post a reply please follow what I said at the start, it took me a long time to sit down and write this, I dont care if people cbf reading it, but for the people that do show some maturity and take the trolling elsewhere. TL;DR Each dps class should have a specific role to play BUFF/NERF/LEAVE Sentinel/Marauder: Nerf Guardian/Juggernaut: Leave Commando/Mercenary: Buff Vanguard/Powertech: Leave Scoundrel/Operative: Buff Gunslinger/Sniper: Small Buff Sage/Sorcerer: Buff Shadow/Assassin: Nerf

Sent/mara r overpowered in 1.2 for one reason and 1 reason only, the totally unjustified buff to matserstrike (ms). They were perfectly balanced pre 1.2, i am one of the better sents/maras on the server and the good players could kill me and i could kill them, they were definitely not op. The problem is that as well as having the ridiculous 23% (specced) boost to ms, the class was made easier to play by removing the 1 focus cost of awe, pacify and force kick. This change had little effect on the 10% of good players as they could manage their focus well. Post 1.2 however the other 90% of maras/sents dont have to manage focus as they can use ms as a huge damage, focus free move as well as not having to worry about focus for these smaller moves. Basically, roll back the ms buff and you'll have a much more balanced class p.s anyone getting 3 shotted is a tool and needs to L2P,

yeah not fussed about the set bonuses for sents tbh, would rather the increased stats

Was just wondering if it was possible to crit the orange lvl 50 pvp gear u get from the war hero boxes i have crafted 10 pieces already with a +5 from kira with no luck

Yes this is way too strong, with it specced mine hits for 4.2-4.9. If u get that completed with merc slash ur looking at at least 7k damage in 3secs, AT LEAST. Now of course ur not going to get that to finish most times coz people arent retarded, but worse comes to worse it forces them to use a push or a cc when they probably wouldnt want to. This at no cost to urself since u have no moves that do more damage nor does it cost u focus to use. It is definately OP and i doubt it will last 2 long.

Good vid mate, there will always b haters who think they're better than everyone else. I'm probs top 2 sents/mara's on my server and one of the better pvpers but the best thing about sents is that you can always b better since it is so hard to play perfectly everytime. I can c how u must be excited for 1.2 with that spec, which i completely agree with apart from the 2 points in the burn slow which I cant justify until it gets that boost come 1.2, which i think is going to b one of our biggest buffs. 1 thing u made me realise was how riposte is actually viable in some circumstances when u happen to have focus to burn, atm i dont even have it on my bars.

I love how all the qqr's are completely ignoring the fact that it costs a lousy 11k creds to get FULL BM GEAR, WHICH is about 2% better than champ gear, WHICH everyone can get a full set of at lvl 50. This is also the same bunch of people qqing about a patch they havent seen implemented yet, or even tested to know exactly how it works. It will take casual players around 2 weeks to get full bm gear, hardly a grind, u can then get the rated gear (which s again probably only about a 2% increase in stats going on previous gear and how much everyone likes to rage on these forums) by competing with the people that took a month or 2 to get the full bm gear in the 1st place. So as far as i can tell, the people who have dedicated 3 months of playtime to get where they are will b the first to get the SLIGHTLY better gear with about a 2 week head start of any new 50's. After that 1st 2 weeks the gear progression will sort itself out with everyone more or less on the same playing field. How does this sound bad to anyone?

Lol, only 1 person has realised how ridiculous focus is going to become in 1.2. Seriously read through, guardians will get so riped off since they r getting a slight nerf to their focus tree (increased cd's) while our force bombs keep the same cd, the watchman talent that they dont have will keep the cd at 9 sec as we get as swelling winds now. Every spec is getting a buff, focus is getting a huge boost to damage (master-strike, force sweep) combat at top lvl gear will get a small boost with the 10% increase offset by decreased accuracy and watchman will get a snare that is viable at 50% on cauterise. This is not to mention the decrease in force costs of other moves and the dispatch buff. Get as much playtime on your sent while you can when 1.2 comes out cos they will get nerfed shortly after if the devs dont realise through PTS. Let the good times roll =) Oh, obviously im talking about pvp, sorry to all u pve people out there