I'm sorry i don't have any pics, but Vengeance does hella damage.

Yea thats what i was thinking. Probably gonna remod everything crit/surge and have low power =[ maybe no though. ill try em both and post what works

The dots are too good too pass up. Even if they're not as powerful as Shatter, they still add to be about 15-20% dmg.. Even if it were less, those dots are putting up pressure when youre not on the target. Also, for my own preferences, i get Decimate because i would kill myself if they got away capping a node because my smash had 1-2s left on its CD. Also, No other 2 point talent is really worth getting over it. In my own opinion, the Malice isn't great because the main force attack you have is force scream and that has +60% crit chance on it.

i guess... usually if they run too much from me i just turn to their DPS and start beating on them to draw them out and reswitch back to them. dont just waste my own time havin to chase them

Man my spec is extremely situational and I'd wanna kill myself if they capped a node because i couldn't smash in time because it was on CD. But after thinking about it, the Intimidation isn't really as great. 2rage every 9 seconds really isn't all that big of a deal to me. I'll probably move 2 points into Ravager and 1 point into Sundering Throw.

So im starting to get full WH gear and I realized that there's a ton of power/X stats on it. Before i was trying to stick with a base 95% accuracy, 30% crit, and 75% surge. However, with all the power my crit is being lowered below that 30%. Should i stick with the extra power or replace my power/surge and power/accuracy with crit/surge and crit/accuracy and try to keep my 30% or just stick with that extra power? Also, idk if this matters but I'm vengeance specd.

How can you not tkae decimate? no rage costs is amazing. and the smash is needed to stop caps in pvp. Stagger... whatever theres deinitely better talents out there.

Seems pretty thought out and very cool. Imma just go down each line of the post and say what i do and dont like lol. First off, the set up is pretty nice and basic. No extravagant thoughts. The ideas of commendations is awesome, especially the whole defender commendations increased. Makes the game much less of a snowball effect and allows for defense. Hopefully it won't go so much as a turtle game. but even if it does, those are fun too. The vehicles however, walkers and aircrafts, i'm not a fan of. I don't like vehicles entering PvP and i'm sure theres some other way to get an advantage than using vehicles. Maybe be able to get buffs using the commendations to make it more interesting? The idea of destroying the bunkers however and keeping down the AA could just be a base control point. Destroying the bunkers sounds too permanent. While on AV, you could destroy the bunkers but had graveyards placed to spawn at. At least the central DMZ should be a King of the Hill style control point that allows for spawning there, and not be destroyable. Kinda like a no-mans-land zone. Also with it, the AA placed in the central area will be taken as the controlling factions. The second line bunkers used to take out a forcefield is really good idea, allowing the defending team to retake it and not be forever screwed. The droid idea i am really confused on. Is this just to do more damage to enemy players/ walkers? Seems really unique, but maybe a different strategy on how they actually work. the speeder idea is nice, makes it so its not so much of a walk to each node, but still gives a little increased time for the offensive reinforcements. Maybe this could be where the droids come into play at. The runback is balanced by the droids being able to keep pressure on the front lines? The Stage 3-AA idea seems nice as well, but instead of destroying it, maybe just taking it over (as in the DMZ AA). This allows for the defenders to be able to push back. The timing for the shield generator seems nice. But as stated before, the idea of bought aircrafts i don't like. I'd say just have the aircrafts be an auto thing that spawns when you control ALL the AA (this includes the DMZ AA). Then have the force field have a health pool that goes down when ALL AA is controlled but doesn't when its not. This way it doesnt require a full say... 3 minutes... of control at once time. but can be periodic control. Stage 4... id say probably just keep it to the whole voidstar winning idea. just make it into the last room and tada. victory. Idk the "cleanup" idea seems pretty cool, provides a reason for victory. Or maybe just keep it to an access of dailys/weeklys that only the winner can get. Like wintergrasp and TolBarad. Thats all i have to say. the idea is great, but i jsut wanted to add my own little revamp. Hopefully all that i said made sense lol EDIT: I just realized it was planned to be an hourly or so event. This means that the whole idea of being able to come back from a push isn't as important to me. So maybe having the bunkers be destroyed and the AA be destroyed is better. However, i still say let the central assault be a nomansland that you dont destroy the AA and bunker, but just control it.

are you kidding? Novarre coast is super unflat. Theres cliffs and hills at each of the 3 bunkers. and on top of that, all the shrapnel to LoS behind? If you think it's flat then check again next time. just push somebody back. If it's downhill, you just capped the node.

Im a valor rank 86 juggernaut on Daragon Trail and this is what i roll: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrZsMrRrhddGoZ0M.1 Main points: -Intimidation. Best slow in the game in my opinion, especially at 0 rage cost. I sacrifice Deadly Reprisal and Ravager for it, but i think it's worth it. If you just wanna go into WZs to **** face and not to win, possibly going into Ravage/ Dealy Reprisal over Intimidation could be better. However, the slow is just too good to give up at 0 rage cost and too bad to use at 2. -Get all the Dots you can, they add up after awhile and end up doing 20% or so of your total damage and is good pressure when not on the target. -Decimate. Having a 9s AoE is really useful to stop caps and increasing its dmg by 20% is just a bonus imo. However, last game i played i AoEd where i thought a stealthed 2% hp Shadow was and i ended up hitting him for 2k and killed him. Once again, if you just wanna **** face I would say put these 2 points into Ravager, but for actual winning this talent is a must. -Rampage. This i really only get for the 2 rage when the CD resets, the damage is just a bonus. Try to do a rotation around Impale-> ravage -> Shatter because you never know when the CD might reset and you dont wanna waste that free rage/ extra ravage. -Pooled Hated + Deafening Defense. Enough said. -Stagger. I don't get 2/2 because i feel like an extra .5s isnt that big of a deal. I only get 1/2 because its needed to get to the 3rd Tier. Theres better talents to get than this. -Sundering Throw. This talent is pretty good, but i feel like others are better. decimate > Ravager > Sundering Throw. So even if i werent going to get Intimidation, I still wouldn't get it. Also. Heres an alternative spec that i would run if i didnt love the AoE slow so much. More damage, less utility. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMrRruddGoZMM.1

I really feel like the hybrid specs arent as viable as the straight through specs. Pre 1.2 i ran a veng/rage hybrid that gave my force scream like... HOLY **** mode. However that was the only thing capable and it was just as good, if not worse, than vengeance tree. The thing with the juggernaut trees are that each tree is stance reliant. If you go down the immortal tree you use Soresu. If you go down the Vengeance you use Shien. And the rage tree uses Shii-Cho. You can get away with using Soresu form and going a little furhter into the immortal tree if youre running a vengeance spec, but this is hard to keep up the rage costs. Without grabbing Shatter in the vengeance tree you lose out on a lot of DoT dmg. If you run in soresu form, its hard to keep up with the rage costs of the vengeance moves. Also, without shatter your rotation is really dry and damage wont be significant. Basically! juggernauts hybrids arent as good as the one tree builds. If anything, stick with a 10/31/0 build and run in soresu form if you want a little more survivability at a cut to dmg. or even just run a 4/33/4 build and switch to soresu situtaionally.

IMO. take 1 point out of Sundering Throw and Stagger. Put 2 into Draining Scream. and then the last two put into Decimate. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZsMrRruddGoZMM.1 But thats a basic revamp of your spec. I like to use : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrZsMrRrhddGoZ0M.1 because the no rage cost AoE slow is the best ever and its worth a little less rage regen and less dmg on ravage.

Well i like the attempt at a hybrid. Honestly, i have been trying to work out a hybrid spec myself but have found that the straight through specs are a lot better. However if you like the obliterate with the utility in the vengeance tree, ill help you out. This is a version of your spec that I would run: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZsMrMrhdzMZhMRrz.1 It's better if you run in Shii-Cho Form, so i took out the Deadly Reprisal and Shien Form talents and gave you Endless Rage. Also, I moved the two in Payback to Overpower. Payback I feel is a very crummy talent. 10% every 2 minutes that's linked to your Unleash is very sketchy while having a 1rage cost Vicious Slash is amazing and spammable. I took out Dominate, Strangulate, Ravager, and Accuracy because those are just not useful and bad for many reasons. I moved Stagger to Improved Sundering Assault because keeping sunder armors on the target is gonna be extremely useful especially compared to an extra second root. However, you'll need to keep one point in either Accuracy or Stagger to get to the next tree. I'll let you decide on that one. I picked up Draining Scream and Savagry because you'll be using Force Scream on cooldown and those make it really really deadly, especially with obliterate and force charge. You NEED Pooled Hatred, at least one point but preferred two, because it makes the new Enraged Defenses really viable while stunned and the rage regen is amazing. Then also i gave 2 into Deafening Defenses because that skill's just too good to pass up, especially with the much needed Pooled Hatred. Here you have one point left. If it were up to me, id take out one from Saber Strength and put both into Eviscerate so you can get the nice DoT up. I mean, as i said, I like the full tree specs better and i feel this woulda been better pre patch 1.2, but thats what i have for you.

This move rocks. Usable WHILE stunned. 4 rage and one rage per tick is a lot, but if you use when youre stunned, you shouldnt have any rage problems. 45s CD so its almost always there when you need it. If anything, our survivability is absolutely terrible but this helps more than hurt for sure.

Were gonna be far from useless next patch. If you guys wanted straight faceroll damage and survivability then you should of picked a marauder and not a juggernaut. Obviously if you signed up for this class then you wanted to have more survivability, utility, and be able to hit hard every now and then. Yes, our survivability is a little lacking. No, I do not want a faceroll cooldown like undying rage. If you think we need better survivability, learn to play the class better or even go immortal or vengeance. I just played a premade WZ with a marauder and he did 600k to my 350k (neither of us used smash all game). But he did 120k healing of about 100-200 ticks a second while my 120k protection was super clutch that kept our healers alive. In the patch, our damage gets "nerfed" in pvp. Good, thats not what our class is about. We do too much as it is. Our utility goes up a little just based off the change to Single-Saber Mastery. Now you can go D-stance without a gigantic nerf to damage. Get to have guard up on people without losing everything. If you don't like these changes, level a marauder as a FotM or just as the class you really wanted to be the whole time. Yes. I am aware that while our utility and survivability is way less compared to certain other classes (hybrid sorcs and Shadow Tanks) but our viability is still intact and theyre just waiting for a nerf. However, yes it would be nice to be able to switch between major damage for trying to 1v1 healers because we don't really have much control and then major utility for helping healers survive when somebody's on them.

Well then there you go. Pop it at the start of a fight1 You'll probably have Enrage up and a lot of rage that needs dumping anyways. You'll take a ton of damage and get a ton of rage, make sure you use SA every time its up and you'll be fine with some xtra benificial health. Pop it when you expect a stun, you'll get plenty of rage to spend that way. Also, if you use it after a fight, low on health, high on rage, and have dots then you can use it so youre not killed.

I agree with you on that. It really isn't going to be a garuanteed kill like the marauders have, but its better than nothing. Since it's a turn on/off ability you can just pop it as a rage dump. If you have a high amount of rage you can use it and you'll get some health back. Then you're not relying so much on it keeping you alive, just a good little addition of health at no cost. Edit: This isn't the passive ability that i thought it was. maybe not so great as i figured, but if you don't use it as an end all then itll still be pretty nice.

Well one, the marauders version costs 1/2 their current health. Which isn't that big of a deal sometimes but it's still there. Isn't it a passive though, so it's always there for you which is just amazing. If you really hate it that much, just pop it when you have a lot of rage and are taking dot dmg. You'll get the health back and not really need to worry about trying to kill anybody. Another keybind sucks, especially if i go immortal because i have CTRL 1-5 bound already as my Defense moves but not that big of a deal. Also, i like the fact its another skill because if you get another chance at staying alive. if you just need that 5k hp or so, endure pain can help without the cost of a really good CD.

Well with that you can just use your white rage regen moves. might cut damage but that's better than dying. Just like you go D stance for the extra defense but lose offense. Its just this is a little less damage and way more defense. Also, you have Enrage. This might not be the best use of it but if you have it up, pop it. the CD is short so if you survive then youre good and if you die, by the time you get back in the fight youll have it back.

Exactly. The stun isn't needed and probably will only hurt except for in some super rare cases. I don't know anything about Immortal, but huddle definitely isn't a problem at all and is very needed. But with the new D skill it shouldnt be too problematic

So my survivability after i Intervene is a littlebit less. 20% isn't even as good as a taunt and taunts i don't ever notice to help THAT much. You still get 8% hp (which after the 4%endurance buff from the talent it is a little less) and you still either get an offense gap closer or a defensive getaway. Yes it sucks, yes it looks like this has some nerfs to the vengeance tree. BUT instead of having a minor defensive buff after intervene, you now get an entirely defensive skill. Also, this probably means the skillcap on the character goes down and take that as you want.

Disclaimer, I play majority PvP Jugg in the Vengeance and Rage tree. Here are my thoughts on this patch: -2s stun on Force Charge: Only good for the Rage tree. While before you would charge and instantly get thrown back, this gives you a 2 second window. It still sucks that you're going to get thrown back after the stun is off and the resolve bar goes up, but that's 2 seconds you didn't have before. Vengeance wise, this is a huge nerf. the talent that allows you to have 4s immunity is now reduced to 2s, shortening the window for them to waste a CC on you. In general it is absolutely NOT needed for the class and i would like to have it replaced by something else. Like an all time immunity to CC for 2s with the vengeance talent increasing that further. However, you can use this to an advantage with Intercede. If you're on a DPS whose being healed, you can charge the healer (2s stun) intercede back to a teammate on the DPS. You now have a healer stunned, a free force scream, 3 more rage, 20% damage reduction to both players and 4s immunity to CC (in the vengeance tree), and 8% more health at relatively no cost to you. You have to work with what you got. -Enraged Defense: This looks interesting, only useful in very certain situations. I mean sure I'll give up a rage for heals, especially if I'm being attacked. You generate enough rage as it is to not have to worry about the loss. Also, for Rage tree, this makes the Enrage skill more beneficial because it allows you to have the effect go even more unnoticed. .:Vengeance Tree:. -Deafening Defense: Hells yea man! Juggernauts have so much more utility than Marauders do, and now they can have the survivability to equate. Also, this makes Enrage Defense even more useful. Heals and damage reduction. Single Saber Mastery: Taking the stance requirement off of this talent is so useful. If you're being targeted you get to now go defensive and still keep the damage increase! It's minor but still very useful. -Rampage: The final tick takes forever to get off and I usually only stick around for the first two. With it now being uninterruptable and giving 2 rage, this skill is now even more useful than just the hard hitting last hit. .:Rage:. -Decimate: This being moved is decent. Now you no longer have to go for the three points in the Vengeance tree to get it. Also, the points in the T1 of Rage suck anyways so this isn't anything bad! -Dominate: Okay this sucks for sure. 1 talent point is a huge deal. However after the changes in the talent trees, maybe there might be nowhere else to put that 1 talent. So in general, probably sucky but not that big of a deal. -Force Alacrity: This also sucks, especially for my sexy hybrid spec i was going for. But with the changes to everything else in the tree (mainly how much easier it is to get your smash procs going), you're probably not really gonna notice the change. On the flip side, it increases Viscious Slash's damage. This mixed with the other talents are gonna make that rage dump even more useful. Any time you would previously have Screamed (mainly the ones that cost rage if you screw up your rotation) you can now viscious slash for so much damage. -Gravity: Call me a scrub, but I don't see the point of this change, what other slows do we have? -Ravager: I already talked about this earlier. Ravage is gonna be soooooooo good after the patch. increased damage and uninterruptable and giving 2 rage. That + Viscious slash = good damage I'd say. -Relentless Fury: As i stated, easier to get shockwave stacks. This talent is what makes the rage tree now. Rage Smash > Rage Force Scream any day. -Obliterate: Are you serious?!! This talent is legendary. Another root, not just an awkward speed bonus! Now you can easily shut down Sorcs who try to sprint away by just obliterating them into the root. Also this opens up the viability of a hybrid spec because you're no longer dependant on the 60% speed increase. -Shockwave duration buff: Situationally useful. Who hates getting 5 stacks and getting thrown off only to Smash 1 second too late. -Through Passion: While Vengeance gets a buff to Enraged Defenses so does Rage. And also, 2 less rage points makes it so much more viable because you don't always get the talent for 4rage when CC'd. -Unbreakable Rage removed: Please tell me you didn't get this... 2minutes for 10%hp. Not the greatest use of talents. However it does suck if you did and now you don't. But either way, I wouldn't have gotten it. As you can see, this is a HUGE buff to juggernauts. While there's small variations in damage, our survivability goes up incredibly. Rage damage is already so good! With the increase in viability of Smash, the damage is gonna be so much more. Maybe not single-target, but that's not what rage is about. Vengeance stays relatively the same, with increased survivability. In the end, juggernauts are gonna be so useful in PvP. Marauders? Really? You want a reason to play a jugg > mara? the utility! I out damage marauders all the time in warzones. The only problem is you don't have the survivablity that they do. FIXED. maybe still not the best face-roll survivability that they have but it's still way better, especially when mixed with what we already have. Also, utility. Juggernauts utility to keep other players alive is insane. Guard, intercede, and the taunts. So much protection. With the change to Single Saber Mastery, having guard up and being in D stance isn't gonna hurt as much. You'll be able to do damage and keep a player alive. Intercede is just the most amazing move in the game, and if you're vengeance you get 20% reduced damage, it saves lives. And the taunts, both single-target and AoE are off the GCD and no rage cost, enough said. The problem with juggernauts were not their damage or utility, but their survivability. With this patch, that changes greatly and is probably the only change they need. Juggernauts shouldn't do as much damage as a marauder but should have better survivability. This patch shows that, our damage gets "nerfed" and our survivability spikes up. It might not be to what specific players have in mind, but that's Bioware working towards a final goal. One last point, are you aware that there's a Vengeance spec. If you haven't noticed from the rest of my post, it's really really really good. The damage might not hit as hard as Rage, but it's single target and the utility is incredible. It might be harder to play, but that just makes it better. All I'm saying, is before you go to your Marauder and lose all the perks of a jugg, go try out Vengeance.