Comfterbilly
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"How to be a Dev"
by
Bioware
Chapter One
Try to ignore a problem and hopefully it will go away and you won't have to acknowledge it exists.
Chapter Two
Congradulations! You are now a dev.
The End.
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I think enough evidence points to there being advantages for being grouped and using VOIP.
^ QFT .
It's not hard to call out anything in a warzone like incomings, or target star or hilt. Its not terribly hard to see someone beating on a healer that if you help out it increases the chance of bringing that target down. Also if you PvP often enough you will start to notice who the heavy hitters are for both healing and dealing damage so its never a bad idea to use ''acquire targets target" to help with focus fire and help peel for healers so they can do their jobs.For the sake of clarity I'd like to limit my response to your first suggestion. Consider: versus a group with an established order employing a target-caller, who among eight random players gets to decide who gets to decide who to target? You don't know these 7 other people, which is awesome against another group of randoms, but against a coordinated team calling you out target by target -- who says who gets to call out the targets? How is that decision made? Why are the other random players going to listen to some ******e on the opschat calling out the targets?
OR, whats by far much more common, you get two or three ******es calling out different things.
Even when the 8 solos are really good and all geared and experienced, there are basic coordination problems against a premade. ^ That ^ Really ^ Good ^ Solo ^ Team ^ can overcome them, maybe, there's a chance they can anyhow; but even having all those good solo players is a coincidence.
Group dynamics far outshines skill in Swtor PVP. Premades of lesser skill take the path of least resistance to get their wins in regs. If you want to match apples to apples you got to match premades against premades. Matchmaking is really much the opposite of what it's name implies. BASICALLY, in PVP, you're not even playing the same game without a premade.
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(and truth be told, if we run on newish alts, or a stupid comp, we, too get demolished by the top premades on their mains)
Wait that's impossible because according to all the premaders on the thread there is no significant advantage to being in a premade and having a target caller and focus fire and group composition doesn't mean anything, and voip coordination as well as rehearsed non-random strategies.
To hear you tell it, these things are actually A significant advantage. You know, because we were all thinking it was just such a peculiar thing that all these random pugs keep getting rolled by coordinated ops, hah hah, like, we were all just trying to pat ourselves on the back and tell ourselves how good we are, see, and the main thrust of our argument was to convince ourselves and the world that all these advantages you speak of were just "our own innate talent" exacerbated by "these pugs lack of skill".
Next, I'm sure you'll tell me the Harlem Globe Trotters are not a real basketball team and that they might really just get their sorry arses handed to them in a very humiliating way, if they had to play for realz. (Luckily for premades and the Globe Trotters, they will never have to in an EA game).
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Dunno where my original post went but no warnings in my inbox so "C'est la vie".
They need to give solos a separate queue, or the game needs to die.
Thank the gods for the genius who invented Huttball, but other than that [this game] has very few redeeming values [in my opinion]. The quest writing is the worst I have ever encountered, I have literally leveled up my last three toons to 55 by space-barring EVERYTHING, not exaggerating. There's none of the KOTOR charm, you think of all the great nuances in some of the specialty gaming companies, [this game] has zero of them. The consolation should be great PVP, but it's completely ****ed [as we have spent 555 pages discussing]. The very least BW could do is separate solo players from the predatory dogs out to farm every last drop, if [the company] can't do that, I mean I pretty much hate what's left of this game and feel bad for the SW Galaxies players who were naive enough to look at this game briefly even as a temporary option for replacing what they lost. Having had high expectations from KOTOR, I share their pain. As a huge KOTOR fan, I was excited to play a B-I-O-W-A-R-E mmo. There is no Bioware. This is EA.
I'm in the market for a substitute, only solo-only queues will keep my business.
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A split queue would result in minimal, if any, change in queue time for solo queued players. for premades, IT WILL INCREASE. there are for a fact fewer premades.
Maybe just maybe it will increase because premades queue times are artificially short now. Premades depend on solo-queuers to give them the ready-dose-sugar-high of constant-queue, then return the favor with perma-farming. As solo players are in the majority, you premades should probably be happy you have gotten this long without being evicted.
It's because of us that you premies get to enjoy this kind of rapid-fire queue response - but if you premades left? Our queue would keep popping right along as normal.
ITS TOO BAD PEOPLE HAVE TO REPROGRAM YOUR 15 MINUTE ATTENTION SPAN BRAINS EVERY SINGLE TIME AND REMIND YOU THAT SPLIT QUEUE CAN STILL HAVE SOLO QUEUERS IN IT WHICH WOULD HELP YOUR QUEUE TIMES, just one more reason people are sick of having to deal with all of you.
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nobody has bothered to respond to said comment b/c its mind bottling that you even think that. its delusional at best.
Funny. I know very well what I've written and what the basis supporting my actual statements have been. Never mind my argument - your argument is that:
- there's (essentially) no such thing as gang mentality in video games
- that an open, anonymous format does not lend itself to behavioral extremes
- that like personalities don't tend to gravitate together
- that certain groups are not more prone to adapt a pack mentality
- that a pack mentality does not lend itself to exploitative behavior
- that exploitative behavior does not lend itself to taking advantage of easy situations to get what you want
Understand:
- that when you are taking advantage you are doing so at the expense of other human beings
- when you are taking advantage at the expense of other human beings this constitutes a violation
- what constitutes a violation is by very nature akin to predatory behavior.
You also thus deny that what a human mind can want out of such a situation, can be anything more than simple comms or credits, medals or valor. I've had days where I PVP'd 20 hours straight with some nice coffee breaks in between - I've seen the behavior we've all seen - there are people here for the thrill of what they're able to do to other people. Again - There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy.
"Bother" to respond - LOL. IF you could, you would; instead you hope to marginalize and misrepresent what was said in a vain effort to disguise your own incompetence.
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this. and comfter has stuck by those accusations that premade groups are akin to sexual assault; not once has he denied it.
Not once have one of you little tag-a-longs shown the propensity to rebut. The glove has been dropped, none of you seem up to the challenge of defending your behavior. But I do hear you mousies squeaking from your hiding spot around the corner.
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When you say that a person is correct, you are agreeing with them. The statements made by the poster have clearly been wild in nature and completely inaccurate including comparisons to assault. Know what you are supporting before you support it.
Let's hear your rebuttal, I don't think you can do it. You want to act like the suggestion is so outrageous that you just... shouldn't... have to... counter it... However, that is not a valid form of debate. What you're putting forward is a sorry substitution for an argument that you appear unready to actually participate in.
Go ahead - free try - rebut:
The potentials of human behavior don't have an 'on/off' switch that's deactivated the minute a person logs into an MMO. You're making a false argument. People are capable of the same extremes of behavior inside a game that they're capable outside the game. In fact, these extremes are probably more outsized than they would be in real life the same way LOTS of behavior is amplified over the internet, minus the consequences of actually having to be accountable for our transgressions. Depending on the team, there are a lot of parallels. The nature of behavior doesn't change just because it occurs in a digital format. There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy.I feel there's no valid basis for disagreement with the above.
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But that's not what premades want - they want to roll pugs who don't want anything to do with them. That's why 2.4's new rules for getting into ranked isn't going to do anything to alleviate the lowbrow bottom feeders problem in regs PVP.
EDIT: It's not going to work because PREMADES are not going to go. They're not going to go because 4-8 man premade in regs is the #1 surest way to win. That's really the basis for the whole problem in this game's PVP, and this thread.
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No, we should not.
The argument is, "half my ranked team is offline, I still want to play, so I should be able to..."
Well you tell me, if not being able to play ranked is the reason you want to be in solo queue, which would be more like ranked: 4-man vs. 4-man ++ adds, or playing versus 8 solo players who (often) don't even have a healer? It would seem to me that if ranked is what you want, 4-man versus 4-man with no rank consequences would be ideal.
But that's not what premades want - they want to roll pugs who don't want anything to do with them. That's why 2.4's new rules for getting into ranked isn't going to do anything to alleviate the lowbrow bottom feeders problem in regs PVP.
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so if there are only 4 members of my guild on atm, and we cannot run RWZ b/c we do not have the remaining 4 members online, we should log out of the game or find something else to do, rather than group and queue for regs?
No, you should have a separate queue and fight against the other premades.
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Again:
please stop attempting to draw parallels between grouping in an MMO to physically violent/socially unacceptable activities.you guys get all in a huff when i call folks "window lickers"; yet ive been called a ra.pist, a bully, and who knows what else b/c massive cba to read every post in this thread.
The potentials of human behavior don't have an 'on/off' switch that's deactivated the minute a person logs into an MMO. You're making a false argument. People are capable of the same extremes of behavior inside a game that they're capable outside the game. In fact, these extremes are probably more outsized than they would be in real life the same way LOTS of behavior is amplified over the internet, minus the consequences of actually having to be accountable for our transgressions. Depending on the team, there are a lot of parallels. The nature of behavior doesn't change just because it occurs in a digital format. There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy.
I feel there's no valid basis for disagreement with the above.
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No seriously. Someone explain to me how most people complain about 4 coordinated, objective-minded, geared, player who's tactics and implementation of those tactics are -so- effective, they completely demoralize entire enemy teams into quiting and yet these...
Are the no-skill players.How do you explain rose colored glasses to someone who's wearing them? Doomsday, you are so hopeless. Other than serving as a cog in a clique, both in the forum and in the game, I can't see how you get by.
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But this should - and hopefully will never happen, since it would force players to play alone in an MMO.
If you dont want to play with other people, why do you play a multiplayer game?
^ Critical thinking fail.
You think you have a point but you don't. PVP and premades are not mutually exlcusive. Meaning, you can and should be able to PVP without groups. You can PVP against other people, who are in OPS, but not in a premade. Do you get it?
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One of my favorite comments I've seen recently, put where it belongs:
Quite frankly any premade spending their time in regular queues strikes me as non competitive pvp, it seems they are just trying to get their commendations without much effort. Any real premade of hardcore gamers should be doing ranked non stop.It got me thinking, all these premaders bragging about their "skill" - it's akin to going bowling and your team gets to use the bumpers and you keep bragging about your rim-shot "strikes" - it's just funny. It's like being stuck pitted against the special olympics with all their handicaps (meaning free advantages), and you still have to try not to laugh at them when they dance awkwardly in "celebration". LOLOLOLOL. Premades are the wanna-be geeks who insist on having those handicaps and then want to brag about them. NO WONDER THEY GAVE YOU ALL HUTTBALL HELMETS! Hahhhhh. It's just sad and funny at the same time; but all the same, I would enjoy a queue for the grown ups, and one for all those special premade special olympians to play bumper ball together in also.
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Quite frankly any premade spending their time in regular queues strikes me as non competitive pvp, it seems they are just trying to get their commendations without much effort. Any real premade of hardcore gamers should be doing ranked non stop.
Quoted for truth. They're here for the free lunch and they want to act like 'code of the samurai' - LOL. It's like riding a bicycle with training wheels and bragging about their "skill", saying we too could be 'skilled' if we just used the kid-safe trianing wheels Huffy provided us all.
LOL It's like bowling against people who get to use bumpers and keep bragging about their rim-shot strikes.
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if you dont want to be competitive, you dont need the gear required to play in the more competitive brackets.
ps Solo RWZ queue is coming in 2.4 i believe; the devs have been hinting at it pretty heavily. so you all get your wish.
As long as they don't mean backfilling, which they REALLY need to enunciate before everyone expecting something good is really pissed off if it is backfilling.
I agree with Helig though, they should definitely give premades a zero-comms zero-progression regs WZ where they can, as they claim, "just practice" for ranked. Win/Win.
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WoW had a rewardless Arena practice bracket. Maybe teams should have the opportunity to stop practising on PuGs and start going at eachother, without the fear of losing rank?
^ Awesome.
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You are aware that you're not playing against bots/NPCs if you solo queue, right?
No they are not aware, the end of their ridiculous statement is the measure of how deeply they consider an argument. You can prove them wrong a thousand times, they've still forgotten it and reboot their brains to start from scratch before the ink on the exclamation point is dry.
Their argument: "Group composition doesn't matter; Voip doesn't matter; practice with the same team doesn't matter; sophisticated ranked strategy doesn't matter - there is no benefit from premading it is all about skill...
...But the one thing we care about is don't give pugs an un-farm-able queue where we can't go with our OP premades and farm them with our perfectly composed, voip reliant, signal calling, coordinated, practiced group employing a sophisticated strategy to farm pugs with..."
F this game.
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i have no interest in re-hashing this same argument with you. we've already duked this one out.
you think players that premade are equivalent to those that like to sexually assault young women.
i dont even know how to approach arguing that kind of logic.
LOL misrepresent my argument all you want, but it's true you do have a problem approaching logic.
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im not even going to bother. you called all premaders rapists....
perspective. get some.
^ You (very obviously) have no valid response and can't admit it - very politely and patiently willing to wait if you'd care to prove me wrong.
C.
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please stop attempting to draw parallels between grouping in an MMO to physically violent/socially unacceptable activities.
you guys get all in a huff when i call folks "window lickers"; yet ive been called a ra.pist, a bully, and who knows what else b/c massive cba to read every post in this thread.
get some perspective
The potentials of human behavior don't have an 'on/off' switch that's deactivated the minute a person logs into an MMO. You're making a false argument. People are capable of the same extremes of behavior inside a game that they're capable outside the game. In fact, these extremes are probably more outsized than they would be in real life the same way LOTS of behavior is amplified over the internet, minus the consequences of actually having to be accountable for our transgressions. Depending on the team, there are a lot of parallels. The nature of behavior doesn't change just because it occurs in a digital format. There is a lot of seedy and sh**y behavior going on on a regular basis, committed in the case of premades by people who are taking advantage of a broken queue; looking for pugs to roll because the watchers aren't watching and they get off on it; they say a lot of degrading **** over the general/say channels, as their goal is to ruin other peoples experience, because that's the behavior they are allowed to enjoy by a team of pvp devs who don't give a damn about the game itself.
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two comments:
- there will never be a solution to balancing teams by skill. it's far too complicated, so any solution MUST be a roundabout one (valor, rating, solo-only, etc.).
- I think you (impersonal) are wasting your breath by designing imaginary queue systems that take this, that, or the other thing into account, work down a pyramid structure of variables, etc. I don't deny that they'd lead to better WZs than a solo-only option. however, let's be realistic here, you might as well be asking for x-server queues. who ISN'T all for that? the fact of the matter is, BW either lacks the resources, be they capital or command of their own code, or just doesn't care (not a single yellow post in 500+ pages). you're living in denial if you think such a queue system is remotely possible in the next year or two. creating a SEPARATE QUEUE, while less effective, is a MUCH SIMPLER DESIGN VARIABLE and might get worked in between cartel market updates.
:2cents:
I personally think matchmaking is pie in the sky because there's no realistic way to quantify what they suggest; because there's nothing to base it off of. If their win rate comes from premading, who's to really say how skilled they are? I'm not willing to call group dynamics skill, that's like saying game mechanics = talent. To me, they're all just hiding behind those; they want to call game mechanics skill; they want to prop up their artificial win rate as 'evidence' of ability. We have 500 pages of them vehemently denying that premading offers any substantial benefit at all, which makes pretty much everything they have to say bogus. If they can't admit the nose on their face there's no use listening to their false arguments. Then you corner them on the mountain of evidence to the contrary, then they admit it, then they spend the next ten pages acting like it hasn't been established; then you corner them on it; then they admit it again; then they spend the next ten pages acting like there is no benefit to premading again. BW has given them a piece of cake and they don't care what kind of BS they have to spew to continue mongering their cake.
- there will never be a solution to balancing teams by skill. it's far too complicated, so any solution MUST be a roundabout one (valor, rating, solo-only, etc.).
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You do realize that every premade on a dead server would just queue sync into your solo warzones, right? .
Why would they do that? After all the premaders on here have made it clear they're not interested in pug farming. Its instructive and amusing how, when trying to use an example t defend a lie, it nonetheless reveals the truth.
Are the no-skill players.
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones
in PvP
Posted