Gets better and better after 30. 40-49 you will be the biggest PITA for the other team. At 50, well, you'll suck again till geared and then still need team mates to protect you.

Forget about doing the full damage in pvp, it's a great skill for dictating where the enemy team stands. Set it up in a ball carriers path in huttball... if they try to go through it they will get 1-2 hits as well as any team mates trying to protect them, or you can stun them. If they don't want to get hit they have to wait it out, like a fire trap. For node based WZs its even better.

Grav round seems like it has a delay because the projectile is a lot faster...they hit at the same time after a cast.

Sounds like a guild or player issue. DPS sorcs are good enough to clear all content. We've taken light, madness and hybrid sorcs through HM Denova. If your guild is struggling on your progression then it makes sense to take the highest dps possible to get it down, otherwise it could just be you. I don't know what kind of player you are nor would I pretend to, but your dps should be good enough to clear it. Hell, we've taken dps scoundrels through HM denova.

It's actually great for tanking in PvE pre-40 as well. You have an extra aoe, you aren't really all that much squishier and can taunt any potential threat issues. After leveling too many shadows and assassins I can say balance is without doubt the most effective all around spec before 40 and even after if we're talking just pvp. And yes, work find weakness into your build while leveling for pvp, you'll be a wrecking machine and difficult to take down.

Force speed is great in many ways, I'm happy with it over a charge... even if they are cool.

That's a good indication of what to aim for. My current shadow (third sin/shadow reroll) is sitting at 28k HP (raid buffed) 27% def chance 63% Shield chance (ward) 54% Absorb I've let my absorb drop a bit lately and would like to get it back up.

Is 4-manning soa supposed to be impressive? His enrage doesn't even matter if you know what you're doing

Not if you fight a tanky twin who's halfway paying attention to your spec, otherwise it does good at killing people.

Is it stupid to go full survivor? No Will you be able to kill someone in a 1vs1 or will the damage be too bad? You will, but the damage won't be good. Healers will be near impossible for you to kill, you'll just be really good at making the other team's day hard. Your job will be protection, meaning your team (especially healers) and objectives. How is it to play as kinetic with the stalker gear instead? It's how most people have been doing it. Your survivability takes a noticeable hit but you can actually kill people yourself. Though many are opting for hybrid builds these days.

In most cases not compared to melee, but now and then I go against smart teams that force me into bad positions where their range dps destroys me. Most times though, they are much easier to deal with as a healer.

Our guild policy is like this. EV/KP SM: No gear requirement, anything is fine. (as long as a tank is able to actually tank something) EV/KP HM: At least in level 51 mods, we carry 1-2 people at a time to gear up alts/newbies EC SM: Be in mostly rakata+, some columi is alright EV/KP NMM: Rakata EC HM: Rakata/BH As for when we bring pug members, we don't care if they've done it before or not, we will teach fights. We just expect them to be willing to do things our way and be geared around the minimum (or better of course) for the content. I should clarify though, it's not so much about what you wear atm, but your stats. If you're in tionese but augmented well enough to do something harder it's all good.

Purple black flames for assassin surrounding them, a light glow for shadows. Thats when they are at 3 stacks

For someone who likes to accuse people of not paying attention to his point you sure do avoid others. What good does guard do for a healer that is going to die from trash before you can get them off? If they die that easily that quickly guard is not going to save them Why do you think reduced damage on a healer is better than reduced damage on a dps? A healer has to heal everyone. The dude taking 2-3 times more damage than the healer should have guard. It's less stressful on a healer to put the reduction on the person taking consistent damage rather then the healer taking a hit now and then. After the healer gets hit it will take 1-2 heals to top themselves off without guard. With guard, it will take 1-2 heals for them to top themselves off. Get it? The guy taking damage much more often needs the reduction more, in the long haul that will be less healing needed in a fight than if guard was being wasted on the healer. If the healer dies just because they didn't have guard your group or the healer sucks anyway. I already told you, I agree guard is pretty pointless in a HM FP but you keep arguing that you should guard the healer just for the sake of arguing when I've already explained in your scenario why guard won't make a difference (a dps pulling another group). If that's the one reason you can come up with, "keeping the important person alive", then I'm done with you because you get stuck on one measly scenario that somehow justifies guarding a healer by default for you. Numbers, mechanics and common sense don't support it. If you want to guard healers in a FP go for it, I'm not here to stop you, but stop spreading false information to others that it's a good idea to guard a healer by default. This thread is about guarding healers on a whole, not just in easy content where it's not needed on anyone. Default guarding the healer is just a waste of the skill, period.

Really, blood and sweat? You must be onto something here, I bet other tanks have never thought of gearing up before. That's the thing, even though most of the time dps won't rip aggro off you, one thing for sure is that the healer will never do so. As I've tried pointing out, which you don't seem to want to listen to, any time a healer gets aggro guard wouldn't have helped, and any time a trash pack in a flashpoint kills your healer it's a combination of the healer being bad and not paying attention and your group not doing what it takes to recover. Guard doesn't help there. If it takes you more than a few seconds to get mobs off of a healer even without taunt you are failing. Do you really think a 5% reduction helps someone who dies in the time it takes to hit some mobs with a single attack?

Op difficulties to me are like this...8man only since I doubt you'd pug for 16 often. From easiest to hardest. EV SM - snore, can clear in recruit gear . KP SM - snore, few tionese and good to go EV HM - snore, tionese and some 51 mods is all it takes . KP HM - slight challenge at lower gear levels, can be done relatively easy in tionese/columi mix . EV NMM - still easy for tanks and healers, dps should be in about half rakata for this to beat enrages EC SM - as with EV NMM, it's more of a gear check for dps than tanks or healers, geared tank helps at keph KP NMM - Not super hard, but KP in general can be a huge pain if you have a group that doesn't know what they are doing. You can get by this in a columi/rakata mix though . . . EC HM - be geared in at least rakata, BH helps.

^ Sawbones does.

First off, in an ongoing discussion I'm replying to what I quote, which originally was not even you. A poster listed points and I listed counter points like he wanted. Second, your scenario of the dps pulling another group is changed such a tiny meaningless amount by guard the entire argument is just sort of pointless. If the healer dies in that situation guard wouldn't have saved him, as I said even without taunt there's no excuse for the tank and dps to not pick them up right away. If the healer cant survive a few seconds its because they are undergeared or not paying attention, guard will not help in either case. 5% less damage in that situation is next to nothing on impact. Your entire point about talking of FPs just weakens your argument. In an operation where consistent and predictable damage is coming in it can save a life but in a FP where the healer gets shot a couple times it does nothing. As I said If the healer cannot survive that for a few seconds guard is not going to help and your group has a problem, and if you guys can't get the mobs off the healer in a few seconds that is a group failure and not because of guard. It is in no way shape or form better to guard the healer by default. Does that mean you should never guard them or not swap? No, but there is no point in doing it by default.

What exactly is your point? We both know guard isn't needed at all in a FP. If another group gets pulled it shouldn't take the tank and dps more than a few moments to gather them even without taunt, one attack and they are ignoring the healer. If in that time your healer dies guard will make virtually no difference, because that healer is insanely undergeared or not paying attention just like the dps. I do sometimes guard a healer and don't remember saying otherwise, but it's in very specific situations and not everyday trash pulls or flashpoints where it makes no difference doing so. I will swap guard onto healers or anyone for that matter when it can make a difference. If your wipe in a FP has anything to do with guard though, you have much bigger issues with your group. Guarding a healer by default does less than guarding a dps by default, and that's why priority should always be dps. In an ops guard needs to be on high threat dps, denova especially (and even lost island if we're counting other newer content) has too many fights where it's important that the boss doesn't face the group or any of the dps.

Why can't the tank charge/stun the merc and THEN have the healer CC? The shield techs still get off a shield even if they are floated often times. And those fights are laughably easy anyway. In KP If you float one before the battle the other one will free it anyway, meaning you either have to sap or get them at the same time like you said, so give me one good reason why the tank can't pull BEFORE the CC is cast. It's just completely pointless to have a healer CC something and gain aggro before the tank, it serves no purpose. In the case of one sapper and one floater, it should be precast to go off immediately after the tank pulls, which takes some coordination but is infinitely better than letting the healer get aggro.

Tanking advice I give people, that I'm sure most healers appreciate. 1. Hold aggro, it's your job. DPS SHOULD take out non-strongs but they don't always do this. Keep enemies off your healer that no one has attacked. Don't get tunnel visioned on one elite while 4 trash are shooting your healer. You aren't there to kill things, just to make sure they are trying to kill YOU. 2. Always point things AWAY from your group. Even if they don't do anything to them it's a good habit to form. There are a few exceptions, but they are so specific that this should be followed most of the time. 3. Use your cooldowns. Tanks and healers need to work as a team, if you see your group or yourself taking a ton of damage pop a defensive and make life easier on the healer. Give him time to heal up the derping circle loving dps or make that spike damage/frenzy damage easier for them to heal. 4. Mark your targets when necessary. Call out people who don't follow them. The entire point for CC or focus targetting is so the healers job doesn't become a fast paced nightmare. 5. Be aware of the enemies and their mechanics. Lots of them will drop or ignore your aggro and go after someone else, have your stuns, pulls, charges and whatever you have ready for these situations. 6. This is more for me personally, but lead the group! If you're not marking enemies there's no reason to stand there for 20 seconds before every pull, I see so many tanks do this and I don't get why when no one is regening. Follow these and you'll have happy healers.

Been an assasin/shadow tank since day 1. My healing partner is a sorc/sage (we rerolled at one point). We've cleared all content together both pre and post nerfs. My usual co-tank is a vanguard. While they are certainly less squishy it doesn't mean they are "better" tanks. I usually end up on all of the harder bosses because both healers find me easier to deal with. I've got 28k HP buffed where as he's sitting close to 25k. Our overall mitigation is relatively close but in different ways where as my defense chance is higher, and his damage reduction is higher. I definitely take spikier damage than him but because of my large hp pool, self-reliant cooldowns and self-healing I still survive easier on the tough things than him. His focused healer is a scoundrel where mine is a sage, if that means anything to you. I'm in no way saying shadow/assassin are "better" tanks either, just making a point that they can excel as can any tank. It depends on the player and which one they are comfortable and knowledgeable with.

Anyone saying the healer should CC before the pull are mind blowingly bad tanks. There is no benefit to doing in that way...lol Let the tank get initial aggro that way the healer doesn't get attacked at all. The healer can precast a cc that will hit right after the tank pulls but that requires coordination which pugs don't have. It's not the healers job to take the attacks and there is no reason whatsoever to play it out that way.

Healing in a pug is just no fun. I'd rather be a terror to the other team and wipe them out than run around helplessly with marauders shoving laser sticks up my rear while my team ignores the objectives AND me. With a good team? Healing can be a blast, but it will still always be challenging.

Well speaking as an assassin/shadow tank I stopped using it long ago, even before 1.3. I've never needed it to hold aggro or beat an enrage. Can't speak for vanguards but I was trying to convince another shadow tank in my guild that he didn't need that accuracy and he swore by it. I'm the main tank for my guild and he was new (to the guild) so I told him to watch me tank and see how many times I lose aggro. After one trip he replaced all of his accuracy with shield. Now in 1.3 it's even easier to hold aggro, but again I'm only speaking as a shadow tank.