Hirokinae
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Posts posted by Hirokinae
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If you actually read my post, you would have noticed I said that you only apply Gut when you've already established your rotation and procced free Stock Strike + HIB. You hit abilities as they proc for maximum efficiency. Try wrapping you mind around NOT hitting an ability as soon as it comes off of cd.
So, you gave up one of the best scaling abilities in the game (Assault Plastique) and 30% extra damage on your dots during execute phase to buff your crit chance? What's laughable is that you don't even put points into Adrenaline Fueled, which means all that extra crit (6% lol) has absolutely no synergy with your spec.
What you don't seem to comprehend is that Gut is only used when you have the extra ammo to apply it. Just because a button is there doesn't mean you should press it. What a free stock strike means is that you can Ion Pulse more, which means you can proc HIB more, which regenerates more ammo, which allows you to Ion Pulse more. Just because you can't comprehend talent synergy doesn't mean it doesn't do way more damage than that horrible spec you linked. Try actually playing the specs once in a while, instead of making bad assumptions via faulty theory crafting.
Ok, so we're down to personal attacks? I've cleared hardmode EV/karraga's, and I'm progressing into nightmare EV / Karragas with my spec, and its been tried and proven. Before we devolve into a pointless flamefest, I'd like to point out that If you're only using Gut when you've got the ammo to spare, then you're pretty much wasting the main reason you're using the spec in the first place.
You only get a free stockstrike every 3-4 Ion pulse GCD's, and then you waste the ammo you just saved on gut.
My point is, stead of wasting a GCD on gut, you could fit in another ion pulse which has a 30% chance to proc HIB, which would definitely hit harder than a GUT would.
if we were to try to translate that into math.
So with your spec:
1 Ion pulse = 30% chance to save 2 ammo on stock strike + 30% to proc HIB which saves you a net of 3 ammo. (free HIB =2 ammo plus 1 ammo gained from high friction bolts)
30% x 2 ammo = .6
30% x 3 ammo = .9
So, 1 ion pulse = .6 ammo saved + .9 ammo saved = 1.5 ammo saved.
Cost of ion pulse = 2 ammo
Net cost of ion pulse = .5 ammo
We'll also say gut = 2 ammo spent, since it doesn't any procs related to it, and is simply ammo dumped on the ability use.
If we were to use 4 GCDs.
.5 + .5 + .5 + 2 = 3.5 ammo
With my spec:
1 ion pulse = .9 ammo saved
net cost of ion pulse = 1.1 ammo
If we were to use 4 GCDs
1.1 x 4 = 4.4 ammo
The ammo saved certainly is nice, and comes out to about .225 ammo per ion pulse GCD, but the tradeoff is you lose out on an extra 30% chance to proc HIB bolt.
My point is, you're not magically gaining a ton of ammo like you tried to imply, and you're losing out on a lot more.
Which also means for every 8-9 ion pulses, you've saved up enough ammo to be equivalent to 1 extra ion pulse.
In exchange, you lose out on about 1 HIB bolt because you've also burned 2-3 GCDs on gut instead of the extra ion pulse.
So, it would take a little less than 9 ion pulses to gain that "extra" ion pulse, when you could've just had an extra HIB from using 2-3 ion pulses instead of GUT.
The spec i've researched revolves around maximizing high-impact bolt damage while being able to use it as much as possible. Assault plastique damage is Kinetic damage, which I have tested and is indeed affected by armor in PVE. High impact bolt scales just as well as assault plastique, if not better, since it is armor piercing, and can be used at a much greater frequency than assault plastique. Adreneline fueled is a lackluster dps talent, and will save you at most, 3 ammo every minute or so. Not worth the 2 points.
That aside, we were comparing the gut hybrid vs the assault hybrid, not assault hybrid vs full assault, so your arguments there are kind of a fallacy which directs your arguments away from the issue.
To sum it up, if you aren't maximizing gut damage by having it up 100% of the time, then you are essentially wasting the main point of the mostly tactics hybrid. That means the only thing you gain is the 25% chance to crit high impact bolt.
when you take into account the fact that your high impact bolts now crit for about 50% less, it makes it not worth it at all.
Once again, you are losing 6% elemental damage, 9% aim, 9% base damage on your main abilities, 6% base damage on HIB, and 30% crit damage on plamsa, HIB, and IR.
I am simply trying to find the spec that gives the highest dps output. Period. I have tried a multitude of specs, and if there is conclusive evidence that one spec is better than another, I am always open to try out something new, and am not biased towards any. If tactics put out more dps than assault, I would love to use it, since I see tactics as more of the vanguard pve spec, and in all honestly love the gut animation and almost had to force myself to go assault simply because it was pulling better numbers.
Please keep your criticism constructive, and instead of throwing around random insults, you could actually provide numbers and more tangible proof. You didn't compare the specs side by side, and chose to launch pointless attacks instead.
I'm trying to help out our class in general by comparing and debating one spec vs. another. If you want a flame war, please do it somewhere else.
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most of guts damage comes from bleed which is internal and is uneffected by armor...
The initial damage is kinetic which is reduced by armor. Thats a little less than half the damage. My main point however, is that what you're giving up damage-wise isn't worth being able to pick up gut and a 25% chance to crit high impact bolt.
your gains are: Gut; 25% chance to crit HIB
Losses:
9% damage from HIB, hammershot, stockstrock, fullauto;
30% increased crit damage from HIB, plasma cell, incendiary round
6% high impact bolt damage
6% elemental damage
9% AIM
Sure you gain a little bit of utility, but for PVE raiding dps, the utility is almost useless, and the only thing remotely useful is the 2% damage reduction.
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Currently, it seems assault pulls ahead of tactics for pve. You can refer to my thread here for more info. =) goodluck!
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You dont GAIN any damage, except through the 25% chance to crit HIB, and the ability to use gut. If you're doing the rotation right, theres no way you can keep your ammo up while trying to apply both dots, use HIB, use Ion pulse, and your first stockstrike which will not be a free one. If you're not using hammer shot at all, you either haven't tried the spec, or are probably doing it wrong. and not applying dots asap. Also, compared to my spec
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMZfI0bkGhM.1
You dont use HIB more. Rather, you would probably be able to use it less because you dont have to use up a GCD on guts periodically, because both specs refresh HIB with the same abilities.
The only thing you gain damage-wise, is a chance to crit high impact bolt, and a 25% chance to get a free stockstrike. Thats it. Gut Simply isn't worth it unless you're fully specced into tactics because it is fully affect by armor mitigation.
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Wow I have no idea why spaced that, but I didn't even think to look at the set bonuses... Sigh, my bad. But yes, that makes perfect sense, thank you for the reply!
Bioware screwed up and made it so that you c ouldn't see set bonuses unless you actually had the item in your inventory before 1.1. AFter the patch however, they fixed that. That could be it
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wouldn't this yield more or better dps while providing better ammo regeneration?
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZMsrrobcoZfG0rzG.1
you might even be able to move 2 points from recharge cells to either ST increase HiB damage, or pulse generator in TT
No. It does the exact opposite. It makes it so that you have to put up both gut and incendiary round, meaning thats 5 ammo right off the bat which puts you below 8. In addition it means you can't HIB right after cause that will gimp your ammo even further. 1 High impact bolt does more damage instantly than a single gut + its bleed, with 1 ammo cost, in addition to potentially having no ammo cost. So if you take that into consideration, all you gain is a CHANCE to crit HIB, and potential free stockstrike. That ability is also wasted because normally you want to use that with a fire pulse build for the 100% free stockstrike.
You LOSE 9% damage on almost all of your abilities, 30% crit damage on your hardest hitting abilities, 9% aim, 6% HIB damage, 6% elemental damage.
absolutely not worth it.
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Interesting thread. I'm 5/5 HM EV myself as a hybrid assault/tactics vanguard, and have found tactics to be a little lacking. Dont get me wrong, it is still a viable spec in the hands of the right player, however i've found that against the spec I am using, it is rather lackluster. refer to my thread if you want to check out my spec.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=161399
Essentially, my problem with tactics, is that most of its damage is mitigated by armor, where almost all of the damage done by assault punches through it. I'd like to note however, that tactics is VERY ammo friendly. The main upside is that its ammo consumption is much less strict that assault's, but the tradeoff is that the potential for damage isn't up to par.
Comparing the two side by side:
The main advantage a hybrid assault has over tactics, is that High impact bolt hits harder than any ability that tactics has. period. It also pierces through armor, which gives it a further advantage. It is refreshed by both stockstrike and ion pulse, meaning the only ability that could give HIB a run for its money: Fire pulse, simply cannot be used as often and still doesn't hit as hard.
Tactics makes your stockstrikes crit 30% harder, but is offset by the "assault trooper" ability.
When we compare Gut vs Incendiary Round, IR wins out hands down. Gut is FULLY affected by armor, and does less damage overall than incendiary round, while IR fully bypasses armor, and does as much base damage as gut 15 seconds even with gut talented.
The main thing tactics has over assault, is the ability to crit high impact bolt. However, 25% to proc isn't too amazing, and with crit levels reaching 30% + in columi gear, its usefulness is good, but offset by the fact that Assault's HIB crits harder, does more base damage, and can be refreshed.
One very very positive aspect of tactics, is that Pulse Generator makes it the better aoe spec hands down. There is no getting around that tactics aoe with pulse generator, tactical tools, is much, much better than assault's.
Also, although you CAN still move of melee and still do good damage, being out of melee for any extended period of time (chasing down soa and mind traps, running from lightning orbs) (Running away from Gharj's Frenzy and transitions) etc. causes a HUGE dps loss from not being able to use stockstrike, and not being able to refresh gut also means you might be unable to hit high impact bolt
that being said, i find tactics to still be a very viable dps spec, and still do very good dps. However, my experience with both specs while raiding makes me lean heavily in favor of assault as having a higher output, with more leeway in being ranged.
The one fight i have been able to judge my dps on, is the 4th EV boss; the council fight. I started assault on that fight, and killed my add first by a good 3-4%. When i switched to tactics the following week, i finished a good 5-6% behind the fastest person. Same raid, same people.
I believe tactics does need a bit of tweaking, and I see tactics as what SHOULD be our pve dps spec, but as is, needs work.
The poster above who says that tactics is our pvp spec has no idea what they are talking about. It simply does not have the burst that assault does. a Assault spec with Assault plastique, high impact bolts, and plasma cell ticks provides more burst than tactics ever could. Sure, tactics has more mobility, but thats only because it NEEDS to be in melee to put out any sort of damage. Assault can open up with its hardest burst sittin 30 meters away before closing in for the finish.
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@irndizzle
Generally, Eliminator's is geared towards commandos, while Combat tech caters to vanguards, and the only difference really is the 4piece set bonus. When you combine all 5 combat tech/eliminator's stats together, they come out exactly the same.
PVE (tionese, columi, rakata):
2 piece---
Combat Tech: Reduces cooldown of Battle Focus by 15 seconds
Eliminator: Increases crit chance of Charged Bolts and Grav Round by 15%
4 piece---
Combat Tech: Increases damage of High Impact bolt by 8%
Eliminator: Decreases cost of High Impact Bolt by 1 Ammo
essentially, the combat tech 2 piece is absolute garbage, because it completely messes up lineing your cooldown with your relic, while the 4 piece is the best thing we have.
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I use MOSTLY the 4th council boss in EV as a rough indicator of where my dps is. Its actually not too bad seeing as how all of the dps are attacking the same exact mob with the same health. I also tend to pull aggro more than most other classes even without them using threat drops. We only run 1 tank, and he guards our sentinel because we "plan" on me pulling aggro most of the time for bosses such as the annihilator droid when he sweeps, or when soa mind traps the tank (which he apparently does all the time now). In pvp my damage usually hovers around 400-500k although this is probably the worst indicator. It still is SOMETHING. Its very hard to tell right now, but i'd say the council boss in EV is probably your best bet.
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I support everything here, and would like to add that bioware has the worst customer servicei've ever seen.
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Bioware needs to get on this soon. The lack of caring in the light of all of their stumbles is abysmal.
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@Reteric it's used with the Plasma Cell, you need it for your dmg, your rotation is 1:1 to the PvE version, you lose armor sure but you gain a lot of dmg.
HIB>Incendiary DoT>Stockstrike>Ion Pulse>Hammershot
@Hirokinae I said that I use a similar spec to yours for dps the only change I have are two points in PvE, I posted my PvP build only to point out that 80% of the major dmg talent's are in the first 1/2 of the tree and that you can mix it up a lot while not losing so much dmg for other gains, I have some crazy off tank specs in mind for Ops.
I see. thanks for the input, and for pvp variations of your spec are defintely viable, and are actually what I would choose if i were to pvp. However I just wanted to keep this a mostly pve raiding spec thread. =)
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I play a BH Powertech and have similar build when i DPS with some point's different but nothing major.
Playing around with the the Assault an Shield trees made me respec and PvP with a totally different build, but similar sustained dmg in PvP, just more mobile + CC and tanky.
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GMhrkMboMZZfhbbdh.1
you only need 18 point's in the Assault tree to get somewhat 80% of the dmg advantage the whole tree has ... so you can further push the dmg or in PvP case i just wanted to be longer alive and mobile. And it's not like you will not feel the 30% more crit/crit dmg from the Tank tree and it's Stock Strike reset, which can reset your HIB, makes some good w t f moments on enemy faces if you get lucky
I'd like to point out that this spec is mostly a PVP spec, and this is NOT a pvp spec thread. The spec i have listed is purely raid dps, and with your spec you lose ALOT of damage, and trade it for survivability, which like i have stated earlier is great for pvp, but abysmal for pve. You are losing 6 MAJOR damage talents and trading them for pvp survivability which you do not need as a raid dps.
*i've edited my main post to include stance and a basic priority list
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Bioware ignoring this problem is just another mistake that they're making on top of their already hefty list. Their customer support is already non-existent as it is.
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One thing I would like to note, is that for general purposes, I personally find that shield specs do less damage than assault/tactics specs, and trades damage for survivability. For pve purposes, shield spec is simply not possible, as maximizing dps requires you to be in ion stance to maximize stockstrikes, which is a HUGE part of your damage. When you factor in the fact that you're generating 50% more threat, you essentially are fighting with tanks for aggro, and might as well be the tank yourself. (although dps output as a tank can be respectable, it is nothing compared to assault/tactics.)
For those in pvp who notice that their damage may be higher while running a shield spec, it could be possible that they are not dying as much, or not used to assault vs. shield in pvp. Higher uptime and active time in pvp will most likely translate into more damage overall during the course of a warzone, and since shield specs survive so much longer, they generally have more active time than assault. With this in mind, I would like to note that I have run both shield and assault in pvp, and while in assault, my average damage falls around 400k, with 300k being the lowpoint, and 500k being high. This versus shield spec, where i found it very hard to push 400k, and often hovered around 200-300k damage, with ~50-100k protection. as the tradeoff.
With that said, I would like to remind everyone that this spec is designed with PVE RAIDING in mind, maximizing dps output. This is actually extremely crucial in hard/nightmare modes, where dps is paramount in reaching the enrage timer for the first, second, and fifth bosses in EV. It is even more crucial in hardmode/nightmare soa, where falling behind on mind traps is one of the main reasons for wiping during the encounter.
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Thanks everyone for showing this thread some love, and as it is beginning to grow and expand, I would like to give back to you guys in return.
I'd like to first begin by reminding folks that this spec is currently built around pve, without any pvp in mind.
I am currently in the process of testing something which intrigues me very much. which is what one of the posters commented about - Kinetic damage and mitigation. I assumed that it was only broken in pvp, and for all pve purposes, worked perfectly fine. I went about testing this theory.
For this test, I worked under the safe assumption that a level ~1-10 mob on tython had less mitigation than a ~47-50 Correllia mob. So i flew to tython and decided to raid a flesh raider camp. The suckers never knew what hit them. =P I also decided to NOT include crits, because the random nature of crits would cause me to run into a few outliers, which is never good for data accumulation.
-The first order of business was to establish a control. I decided to use Ion pulse as my control, since it has been confirmed that it is elemental damage, which bypasses armor completely in both pvp and pve. I 1 shotted around 50 mobs, and took the average of my damage, which came out to 980.
- I then proceeded to throw sticky grenades (i dont have AP) which is listed as "kinetic damage" and SHOULD be mitigated by armor. After running around sticking hapless fleshraiders, i came up with an average of 1267 damage
- Next i proceeded to Correllia, and did the same for the none elite mobs there, ion pulsing and sticking the imperial scum on the planet. My averages came out to 987, and 1118 respectively.
- IN ADDITION, i decided to call out elara, and beat on a few gold elite droid, one of the "tanks" on the planet, and pulled up even more interesting numbers. 997 for ion pulse, and 1012 for sticky grenade.
To sum it up, my Data entries are as follows
Ion pulse:
Sub level 10 -------- 980 damage
level 47-50 -------- 987 damage
level 47-50 ELITE -- 997 damage
Sticky Grenade:
Sub level 10 -------- 1267 damage
level 47-50 -------- 1118 damage
level 47-50 ELITE -- 1012 damage
In conclusion, ion pulse's damage seems to bypass armor completely, as the average damage was generally the same for all three levels. However, with sticky grenade's average damage it is VERY apparent that as level on mobs goes up, the damage decreases. This falls very well into the assumption that higher level mobs/elite mobs logically have more armor, and thus, more mitigation than their lower level counterparts.
This data CONFIRMS, that for all intensive purposes, mitigation DOES WORK as intended for pve purposes. I do not want to comment in pvp as I have not done testing and worked the data myself, although I have noted that it is not working as intended for pvp. Please stick around for more updates as i run more tests like this in the future, as well as update information on our trooper dps spec!
Disclaimer: there were many flesh raiders harmed in the making of this test. Many were dismantled, dismembered, and destroyed in the process of testing, and Hironai inc. is not responsible for feelings of guilt, displeasure, or anger towards flesh raider rights activists.
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Its no problem. your suggestions are great and very viable for pvp, although for pvp, i would probably run a shield/tactics hybrid, which I find to be the most powerful in terms of suvivability/damage
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http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bMZMsMroZfhMrzGMM.1
This was my change on your build i'll explain the reasoning.
Night Vision Scope and Soldiers Endurance just aren't worth the 5 points. The Stealth Detection is great but i have triggered stealth reveal more often than not on players even without the extra points. I only find it fully useful if you have the points for the root in the shield spec tree.
Adding reflexive shield and sweltering heat now give you your slow (which comes in handy way more than you'd think with ion pulse). and reflexive shield helps because you will take damage and you will need that shield.
You loose your aim bonus and one of the ticks out of total elemental damage however the 2/2 split on shield spec affect your HIB for the most cost effective route. You gain front line defense and are able to knock out healers much more effectively or snipers, or even commandos! (knocking out tracer missile really ticks bh's off, doing it multiple times causes them to find a new target)
Thank you for your feedback, but please keep in mind that my spec is to maximize RAIDING dps, and has nothing to do with pvp. Your spec encompases pvp utilities, and you lose quite a bit of dps from it. You dont need a slow when doing boss fights, and losing rain of fire, 9% aim, and 2% elemental damage is not worth a little bit of active mitigation.
In addition, a 6 second interrupt is amazing in pvp, but when doing pve, a 2 second faster interrupt does almost nothing for you, considering there are NO bosses than can be interrupted.
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Updated. I am currently in the process of testing it in Hardmode, and have decided to drop gut in favor of rain of fire. Although mathmatically, they could be even in terms of damage gained, when you factor in the use of a GCD, and the fact that having to use incindiery round followed by gut shortly after drains your ammo and doesn't leave you enough room to use stockstrike/iron pulse to refresh high impact bolt, which is your highest damage move period.
Comparing my last hardmode council kill, to this one, I found that i killed my add much faster when specced into rain of fire. I will update the spec.
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really nicely written
can I ask some questions as
a) I've not played dps vanguard (shield spec thats probably going to have to go dps for raiding due to guild)
b) 1st good vanguard dps post I've hit so far
which cell are you using ? (guessing plasma)
is it a rotation or a priority order ?
what secondary stats should we aim for?
does this play well in flashpoints or purely a raiding spec (concerned a lack of any CC will impact playing vanguard dps in a flashpoint, but thats a different matter)
thanks
I'm currently playing around with the spec, and am testing it out in hardmode EVE tomorrow. At the current moment, its hard to nail down a rotation, and the rotation itself is turning out to be VERY user-unfriendly. Its more of a priority system as well, since you will want to use high impact bolt whenever its off cooldown. Its your hardest hitting ability as well as your cheapest, meaning you ALWAYS want to use it when its up.
As far as secondary stats, the main consensus is AIM as primary of course, then - crit - power =/= surge- alacrity.
Currently, surge is an interesting stat, because it goes hand in hand with crit, HOWEVER, I have found that there IS a softcap on surge, although i dont remember what % its at. possibly around 90-100%.
This spec is a little cubersome for flashpoints, as its a dot reliant spec, so is mostly only good for heavy boss fighting.
I am currently working on a revised version of this spec once i test it out sunday in our hardmode EV, and might consider dropping Gut in favor of Rain of fire. As it is, the ammo drain from having to put up both dots, HIB on cd, and tryin to keep stockstrike on cd is proving to be quite difficult to handle. I will keep you updated.
While leveling, if you wish to use this spec, i would recommend going into assault first, as that is where the majority of our damage boosting capabilities is, and you want to pick up incindiery round and ionic accelerator ASAP.
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The fact that the developers play sith, and favor it is absolutely terrible. The fact that they haven't even tried to address this issue is worse. The favortism honestly needs to stop, and they need to stop ignoring these problems just because they like the empire more. The imbalances between these two "mirrored" classes is obvious and their lack of attention to it just proves that they are playing favorites.
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i fully support this thread and post, and the fact that bounty hunters across the board also ackknowledge it the problem makes it even worse. Full auto and mortar volley both are broken and the devs have done nothing to even ackknowledge the problem. THeir customer support already is absolutely horrible, undermanned, and way below subpar. The worst i've seen in a long while, and they are not helping themselves by ignoring this. They seem to only care about supscriptions, so I am going to straight up say that if this problem isn't resolved, you will lose my subscription very soon. Maybe then they'll care when their money is in danger.
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i fully support this thread and post, and the fact that bounty hunters across the board also ackknowledge it the problem makes it even worse. Full auto and mortar volley both are broken and the devs have done nothing to even ackknowledge the problem. THeir customer support already is absolutely horrible, undermanned, and way below subpar. The worst i've seen in a long while, and they are not helping themselves by ignoring this. They seem to only care about supscriptions, so I am going to straight up say that if this problem isn't resolved, you will lose my subscription very soon. Maybe then they'll care when their money is in danger.
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There is simply not enough information due to the lack of a combat log to fully gauge which does more damage. The only thing I can tell you at the moment, is that when comparing our kill speed for the council boss in EV, i beat our gunnery commando by a wide margin consistently, although that could be attributed skill/gear/etc, and is impossible to tell at the moment.
I WILL tell you that vanguard dps is VERY viable in raids, and it all comes down to preference at the moment.
Vanguard damage is much more melee oriented, this spec simply gives you the option to play at not so melee range at times, as well as almost infinite mobility at short-medium ranges.
Gunnery Commando is very stationary, and not very movement friendly, but does not have the range restriction that vanguards do.
In the end:
dps is viable for both classes
vanguard is short range, extremely mobile dps
commando is long range immobile dps. Although, i'm sure assault spec commandos will have a little more mobility at the cost of an overall slight dps loss.
Thoughts from a Tactics Vanguard (PVE)
in Vanguard / Powertech
Posted · Edited by Hirokinae
You have absolutely zero math or proof behind your opinion about the vanguard spec being the highest dps. There are no meters so you "saying" that it is the highest dps isn't true and shows that you are the one making false generalizations. I dont say my spec is the absolute best, i'm saying "i believe my spec provides the most dps, and this is why"
You obviously dont understand the math behind the fact that extra ammo every 8-9 ion pulse doesn't steamroll into an infinite amount of ion pulses. You are STILL locked by the fact that stockstrike has a cooldown, and you are still locked by the fact that ion pulse is on a GCD. getting a free ion pulse doesn't mean you get more ion pulses which generate more off GCD ion pulses, it just means you're saving ammo. What i'm saying is that saving .2 ammo per GCD isn't worth instead having an extra chance to get a free HIB, especially when you factor in that the HIB in my spec does much more.
Considering that both our rotations REVOLVE around stockstrike, HIB, and hammershot, and incendiary round and ion pulse, it is safe to say that 9% damage to 4/5 of those abilities is not miniscule.
9% extra aim alone equates to roughly 4-5% of my base damage for ALL of my abilities in my rakata gear. I've done the math by switching out gear and calculating my aim, then looking at the tooltips for damage on abilities.
6% extra base damage + 30% extra crit damage on our hardest hitting ability is not minisucle, and neither is 6% extra base damage on our most spammed ability.
Like I said, I've actually played and tried the spec you've linked, and it was the first spec that I tried. While I was using it, I found that in order to keep 100% uptime on both dots, the ammo requirement was simply too high. If you didn't keep gut up 100% of the time, it defeats the purpose of having gut in the first place, since GUT and 25% HIB crit are the only straight dps gains you receive. It wasn't a sweeping generalization, it was based off of experience playing the actual spec. You threw out disparaging remarks and insults without even providing any real evidence to your claim besides "you save ammo using stockstrike and then you can use more ion pulses" Thats it. The rest of your response devolves into trying to attack my spec by saying "well the +% COULD be minimal." and "a full assault does more dps" Why? Because apparently you said so.
without meters, its hard to know which of the specs are absolute top. If you look at my thread, I've actually done work, math, and stat tweaks to try to find out which does more. I can't say mine is the absolute best, because i dont know if it is with 100% certainty.
You've already made "absolute" remarks by saying that spec is "the top dps spec" without any hard evidence or proof besides "because i said so". Theres math out theorizing that assault plastique is not worth it in pve either because using a combination of HIB and ion pulse could theoretically provide more dps, especially since HIB pierces armor and assault plastique does not. If you would like me to direct you to that site, I'll gladly do so.
I'm open to any spec, and just trying to find which one is best. Your arguments have had no math, no evidence, and seem to pull out magical claims out of nowhere. I've tried a number of different specs, and will continue to tinker with and work the math on this one for now since out of the numerous specs i've tried, it seems to be pulling the most. If you actually come back with any real evidence to support your claim, maybe i'll even come back to that spec and give it another whirl to try out the numbers.
Till then, i'll continue my thread and try to help out other vanguards who are trying to min-max despite the lack of a combatlog.