Anilon
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Posts posted by Anilon
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Well great - now you have both convinced me to get back in the game and here it is only 10 AM and I am stuck at work.
/tear
I do appreciate the response though, thank you. It sounds like I should be able to hop in and catch up.
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You have a lot to keep you busy advancing your chatracter that you can do solo while you look for a good raiding guild. Work on your dalies so you can get your campaign relics and make money to buy augments and augment kits for your gear. You want to try and get as many blackhole comms as you can each week, so pug a few story mode ECs and Nightmare KPs. You are not going to catch up by the time the next tier comes out, but that is okay. Once you get into a raiding guild you want to be augmented with some black hole mods and enhancments in your gear. This way you will be viable in HM EC so you can start getting your campaign gear. At this point in the game you should get that campaign gear pretty fast if you get into a guild that clears HM EC everyweek. Most of their vets will already have everyhting off at least the first two bosses, so you will be able to clean up.
So no your not so far behind that you cant catch up, but you do have some work to do. I understand where your coming from though having left MMOs and not being able to go back because it sucks not having the gear to do the progression content. Your not as far behind as you think. The new operation that is coming out soon still drops rakata in story mode. Everyone is wanting to do that content, so you will get all of the rest of your rakata if you need any more, plus you will get black hole comms. So come on back and play, and stop hopping around from game to game. stick with it.
Thanks for the advice! Have they released info on when the level cap might be raised? How much time do I have before that goes in?
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Andryah - I really appreciate it.
Behind what or who? The completionist approach to MMOs is more of a solitary play style in many ways (not that you would not do some of it in group, but in terms of your goal). So I really don't understand the question. Now if it is important for you to be first on the server, then yeah, you are hosed.You are correct that it is more a solitary style of play. I am not after server firsts. To elaborate - I am asking more, will I be able to knock out the solo-able completionists parts in say, 300 hours of game-time? Or is it 500,600,700 + etc at this point in time?
Then never ever sign up for an MMO, because you never know what they will be like in a year. Even if they go off line in 10 years, you do know that nothing you do in the game is owned by you, right? ie: at some point, all your effort will be flushed down the drain. Play for fun, not for keeps.I fully understand what you are getting at here - and its a valid point. But I think knowing a game like WoW (sorry to use it, but its a great example) will *most likely* be online for many,many years to come is different than worrying a company might drop a mediocre success game rather quickly. Does that make more sense?
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Hey all -
I have this recurring problem - where I jump on a new MMO bandwagon, abandon an older one, and then wish I had stuck with the older one. Most recently, this problem has come with SWTOR.
I leveled a gunslinger to 50 at launch, did operations with a solid group - completed most hard modes, had half rakata/half of [whatever is under rakata, can't remember] - and then left the game, for 5 or 6 months now.
I am really interested in coming back, but I am a nervous for two things:
1) I am a completionist - is the game in a state where I can max out one characters achievments, gear, etc or am I just too far behind?
2) I don't want to join and have servers go offline in a year or something
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Quick cosmetic suggestion -
The Menu Bar and Phase Indicator are trapezoidal in shape - it would be awesome to have a simple option to flip the trapezoid, for those that choose to place these two features on the bottom/sides of their interface.
Example:
Current Shape:
___________
\__________/
Flipped option would make it:
_________
/_________\
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I really enjoy it. It takes a while to "find yourself" and to get gear that makes you effective.
I use a sharpshooter build and love it. In my opnion, the goal of a gunslinger is to not be seen. I stay with other team members and pick places where I won't be noticed and then spend time destroying the other team.
It works out pretty well. I can't speak to DF or Sab, as I am in love with SS.
- Anilon, Valor 55 Sharpshooter Gunslinger
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Can anyone confirm if the pattern for the 530 power adrenals will drop in normal raids. We haven't been lucky with this in hard modes. So if anyone can confirm a drop in regular then id have a second chance to farm it.
I *want* to say I have seen exotech adrenal's drop in normal, but I can't remember 100%.
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Well thank you for that! I am not often up to date with what isn't yet live. I focus enough on what exists now. Seems the dev's agreed with me, this is perfect. I knew there was another raid coming, but I am glad that they did it this way! Can't wait!
Yes, it seems they certainly addressed the difficulty concern. Also really glad to see the story mode is going to persist to the new operation. I can't quite keep up like I used to in college
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I was just wondering after reading all of the replies here and I have to admit that I did enjoy the civilized debate, so rare nowadays especially over the internet, mostly after the point that this thread was turned into a "raiding is too easy in this game, why don't they fix it and make it like Vanilla WoW, EQ, etc..."... And I agree with you and would have backed you up and jump in the debate myself till a few days ago, cause it is TOO easy BUT... Didn't any of you read the upcoming changes in 1.2.?
Wow, thanks Oloth! I had not read that yet.
Glad to see some more challenging content coming.
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I need to pinch myself...a logical, intelligent, good spirited debate on the internet?!
Anyway...my whole point is, at least speaking for my guild and the one that collapsed before it, many people don't want to just want the same instance over and over with a slight tweak in damage or mechanics. I do not know if you raid or not, but for us this is boring. It caused my last raid to self destruct as people quit raiding because they were sick of "Korriban was my cradle, my testing ground" or w/e every....single....week. And when we were all geared, what did we get to do? More of the same, but now with one more lightning ball! If they simply keep introducing easy instances with no options but to farm them on slightly higher difficulty, I and many others I know will not be around for long. There must be something to entice, to pursue, or it just gets stale! At least in WoW, we knew there was always something else to get to, a new instance, a new boss! A new adventure! Here..."Ok guys, Soa has more hp...oh and there is an extra ball, so same as the last 10 kills..."
I almost fell over laughing out of my chair at the SOA quote - i've thought the same thing when we kill him.
I can definitely see your point. Perhaps they could keep the instance the same, but add entire wings, bosses, etc to the harder difficulties - allowing normal mode to still follow the main storylines. That my accomplish both goals.
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Indeed, I did misunderstand what you said. My apologies. Now then I am not saying that there needs to be an instance that 10% of people see or something, just something a LITTLE tougher. ANYONE can run EV/KP on normal. All I am suggesting is an instance where the normal mode is about as hard as the KP/EV hardmode and scales up. That would be achievable to most raiders, which I would think is a significant enough portion of the population and also tends to be the group most likely to resubscribe and to maintain their accounts over the long run. Having challenging content is why I, and many others play. I don't know the math, but I am sure developing an instance as I described would be preferable to losing raiders. If the only way to increase the challenge is to run the exact same content as we beat before, well that sucks. There needs to be something new, but that is also difficult. Not insanely so, but enough that you can't ding 50 and run in, you have to clear previous content first to gear up and learn the coordination needed.
I do not know about WoW's raiding as it stands, so I cannot speak on it. I quit just before WotLK came out, due to lacking time to play.
I agree with you that difficulty needs a bit of a bump. Where we disagree is on how that bump occurs
. I feel they can enhance nightmare mode in future tiers to serve this need.And as to WoW's current raiding: As of Dragon Soul and moving forward - they have three levels of difficulty per tier, broken as follows:
Raid Finder: A very easy difficulty for random, cross-server Pugging.
Normal: A normal difficulty for organized guilds
Hard Mode: The highest difficulty - for very skilled players and guilds.
Look familiar? It should, as it is exactly how SWTOR has set themselves up. (minus the ability to cross-server).
I would like to touch on one more point you made:
"I don't know the math, but I am sure developing an instance as I described would be preferable to losing raiders."
The problem is - that usually is not the case. You are dead on with the decision they are making - basically "how many more people will keep their subscription if we develop this extra level of difficulty tier". And that is the core reason for the model above. It allows more difficulty, with less Dev time.
As I said, you and I are almost on the same page, just slightly different approaches =).
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While there is no direct gear reset (in EQ there actually was a revamp of old zones to drop "reset level" gear, but EQ is a very, very different beast in terms of loot. Literally worlds apart from modern mmo's) levels often make enough of a difference that old raids can be effectively beaten/solod. As an example, in the first expansion, single groups were able to easily wipe the floor with vanilla raid content that took 6 groups to clear.
In modern environments, it would work by the very nature of later-expansion Power Creep making some old raids obsolete. I see nothing wrong with a "semi gear reset" in that a person who levels to 70, obtaining new gear and such, really has little interest in the most casual of level 50 raids, but they may find one (or several) items they really like in a "hardmode level" level 50 raid. This gives them a reason to see content they otherwise would only have visited out of curiosity (i.e. soloing when greatly overpowering the zone). If pickup single-groups are clearing raid content from 2 years ago and finding items they can use to beat entry-level raids in current content, you really aren't "wasting" any content at all.
In addition, craftable items finally gain real use in this sort of system, as they can be a great way to gear up to at least semi-modern content (i.e. the level where the more casual of guilds would actually be raiding).
Edit: Again these are heavily simplified examples with numbers off the top of my head, so let's stick to talking about the general idea as opposed to specifics.
Heh, I must really have the modern loot and raid paradigm "beaten into my head", as i'm having the "darndest" time getting my head around how the staging works.
Oh if only I were but a decade or so older - perhaps I would have gotten in on that so long sought after EQ experience. =)
I'm still having a hard time seeing how the content in the early "stages" doesn't become obsolete?
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Allow me to return the favor. In WoW vanilla, I never saw Naxx, most people did not. Did I say, "QQ I didn't see ONE instance! /unsub"? No, and neither did a VAST majority of players. They played the stuff that was down to their level. Know what I did do? I realized that I wanted to see the rest of the content, so I looked up builds, stat optimization, and learned to be the best player I could, got with a good guild, and come BC we were farming BT. Did most people kill Illidan? Nope, and they didn't unsub. My point is, just because some people can't see some content, doesn't mean they unsubscribe. A higher level instance that is more difficult gives those who are farming EV and KP something to move up to. If you can't do it yet, then stick with EV and kp and by the time you are sick of those there is no reason you won't be able to move up.
So basically what I am saying is your argument is invalid. As long as they have things to move up to, people will won't quit simply because there is an instance they can't hack it in. Know who will quit? People who are frustrated by content they can clear in one night while half the guild is drunk and that be it for raiding for the week.
Also, I'm not saying ONLY have elite instances. Have things like Karaga/EV, and if that is too easy on every difficulty, have something tiered like New instance normal mode => KP EV HM...New instance Hard mode => KP EV Nightmare. Then casuals have their **** to work on and work towards, and so do hard cores.
EDIT- I used => to mean great than/equal to, as in a higher tier instance on normal would be harder or the same as KP/EV HM and scale upward as such.
My argument was not that people will not play. I would ask politely that you re-read. My argument was that it is not a smart *financial* decision.
I'm not sure of your background, but I personally work in software development. I'm a little segregated, being a tools developer and SCM - but I see how these things work. When I say it is not a smart financial decision, I am referring the this:
The number of players provided content vs. The $$ and Dev hours (dev being the full Des/Dev/QA cycle) to develop the content.
Your references to WoW are correct, but look at WoW now. And I would ask you - why did WoW change it's raiding paradigm? Out of the goodness of their hearts? Or because it made more financial sense?
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Everquest (and possibly other MMOs, but this is the one we're talking about) had a system like this.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/eq:raid_progression_guide
(You don't need to know what any of these raids actually are)
This is pretty simplified, but each of those "Stages" contains a number of raids from several expansions. As more raids came out, they were staggered in difficulty so that no matter what expansion you happened to join in, there was content easier than the current "top of the line".
Now, that game is 10+ years old, but you can apply the same lessons. Never do a gear reset, never introduce a hard mode. Introduce easy, medium, and difficult raids and, as more content comes out, fill in gaps between those raids and add new ones of increasing difficulty. All players eventually see all content (minus raids that are obsolete due to power creep: i.e. the "stage 0" stuff from the EQ page).
The problem with the system is the "release a raid on a specific big patch and that's THE raid for the next 6 months" style of development. If there was a lot of raid content of varying levels (and possible "super bosses" like WoW's Algalon livening up the "easy" content) your players all see/experience everything, pugging has some sort of viability, and elite raiders are back to being elite again because they saw it first.
Interesting. So in this system, with no gear reset, What happens when someone joins the game 2 years later and no one is running the first, say, 5 stages?
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Has anyone else had trouble trying to complete this quest? It's listed under "Operations" and I"m assuming it's going to tell the story line of either EV or KP.
It tells you to speak to LD-402 in the hangar of the Ziost Shadow. I've been everywhere on the Ziost Shadow, and just cannot find the NPC.
Any tips or pointers, or is this quest broken?
A quick google search and a glance at torhead suggests that the robot "LD-402" is inside the Karagga's operation itself:
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The best way to do it is how EQ did it back in the day - tier raids not by release date, but by difficulty, and never nerf old content to be "doable". This allows people to approach raids in an organic way instead of through some silly arcade system where they choose a difficulty level.
I'm not quite sure I understand. How does that address the issue I mention above regarding only a certain % of the population seeing content, and thus making it a less financially sound decision for the dev studio?
Please understand there is no hostility in this reply - I merely never played EQ and am trying to understand the system you are describing.
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I'm not quite a hard-core, but I am a raider (full clear EV and KP on HM). I think the main issue is that there is a lack of variety and quantity of raids at the moment. There are only two raids, and you can clear both in one night. In WoW, end game raids took two nights, even on farm (going only from up to BC here, I stopped after that), considering only three hour raids. What's more, is that it's easy to do too, only reason we haven't done nightmare mode is because there isn't much incentive to. If you want anything harder, your only option is to go up to a higher difficulty for a n negligible increase in loot, and why do that?
In all honesty there needs to be another tier of raids, that quite frankly, not everyone will be able to clear, even on Normal. Not because I feel so 1337 to exclude people, but there needs to be a raid in which the mechanics and need for organization are such that some people just won't be able to do it, because that is the only way to provide an adequate challenge for the true raiders, coupled with the sense of achievement that is part of what makes raiding such a unique experience. Killing Soa with one extra ball and some boosted hp/damage isn't the same as killing a whole new boss that you know you are one of the upper percentage who had the skill and coordination to beat. It also gives people an incentive to really try and get good, so they can see it all. Right now, I have very little reason to log on, because I can't get more gear or kill anything that isn't on farm.
The major flaw in your second argument there, is that designing content with the intent to only have a small amount of the player base access it, is not a smart financial move.
It is my opinion that the MMO trend will continue with tiered difficulties of encounters. It is the most cost-effective way to provide multiple types and difficulties of challenges. It is why WoW changed to do that, and it is why SWTOR came ready with it.
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You can laugh, but when you're LFGing for a Tank or Healer, be it for a FP or operation, and someone like me replies, you'll be glad. Players like myself come ready, know our class, and learn the encounters.
We don't look for short cuts by skipping content.
I don't even... is this for real?
I come ready, know my class, and learn the encounters as well - the difference between us? I don't treat my video game knowledge like it makes me superior to others...
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The only possible upgrade for me at this point is to change my Columi chest piece for a Rakata chest piece. It's actually not even a "real" upgrade, because the mods in it are already swapped from extra Rakata gear, so it's only a few points of armor, which don't matter for me. All other Relics, implants, earpiece, weapons, etc., are all Best in Slot.
I ran dailies for one week and went on 3-5 Hard Mode Flashpoints before beginning to run EV on normal mode (I was with the first group in my guild that did it, so it's not like I was being carried). We cleared EV our first weekend trying, it honestly wasn't any harder than a HM flashpoint, just wearing crafted/orange gear with the ridiculously cheap/easy armor/mods/enh that you get from doing the dailies.
Now here's the thing: the above isn't bragging, because it's not hard to do. My guild is NOT filled with pro players. That Rakata chest piece I'm missing? I'm missing it because my guild STILL hasn't been able to kill Soa on Hardmode, and that's the only way to get it. There's a reason they're renaming "Normal Mode" to "Story Mode" in 1.2: it's meant for EVERYONE to be able to beat it, so you can see the content. The idea that you'd need to do something tedious or spend long hours preparing to run EV normal mode is laughable. Clear the first 4 bosses on EV normal mode and you average one piece of Columi per person, PLUS a bunch of Columi commendations, PLUS crafting recipes and materials.
If you started doing normal mode operations this week, and ran them both every week, by the time 1.2 comes out you'd have complete Columi gear. It's not Rakata, but then again, you're not getting Rakata from doing Flashpoints, either. Getting BiS gear is ridiculously easy in this game (though I hope/expect it to get harder with 1.2).
Agree with everything you said. This was my point as well - no reason in this game to tediously grind HM FP's. Seeing the content is a whole different story (I absolutely loved fighting malgus the first time.. best MMO experience in a long time.)
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LMAO. Winning requires dedication. Funny stuff.
To be honest, while my reply to the same post was more serious, I had the same thoughts you've posted here.
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I started my BH Powertech tank the first day of EGA. I was fifty a day into official launch. I had all my Columi pieces a week after by running Hardmode Flashpoints in PUGs.
The first time I ran a PUG in KP Normal to just "check" out raiding, we wiped on Bonethrasher for 6 hours. Most of the original members had left by then. I got my Columi head piece that night. It felt good. (Remember KUS wasn't out then, and Bonethrasher normal was the only guy who dropped Columi head token).
I was the best geared tank at that time, when operations were only run by the hardcore guilds. I ended up joining the top raiding guild on my server as a consequence of being geared 100% in Columi.
I'm two Rakata pieces away from a complete Rakata set. The guild I tank for in operations has everything on farm except 16 man KP NMM, which we are close to getting.
I have the Infernal title (completed EV in under 2 hours on NMM).
When I go into a Warzone I destroy the opposition, and I'm PvE tank specced in PvE gear.
When I join a PUG to tank people are happy to have me, grateful, and always comment on how well geared I am. Sometimes they'll even ask me about the Infernal title: only fifteen other people on my server have it, and they were all in my raid when they got it.
You want to "skip" HMs because they're not worth it? Be my guest. If you're serious about progression you'll PUG the crap out of them and then app a better guild.
Winning requires dedication.
Anectodal evidence is not valid proof in a discussion of worth, unfortunately. (Though on a personal note, I enjoyed your story).
The fact of the matter is that the OP makes a point. Most of us long-time MMO players are used to *having* to run pre-operation content. Here, however, it seems that due to the difficulty (or lack there of) of normal-mode you may be better off simply doing operations if you don't want to dedicate time.
Oh and by the way - I am 4 pieces from full Rakata - and I have run a grand total of 6 or 7 hard mode flashpoints, receiving only 1 piece of gear total from them.
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I aveage 500k-600k on voidstar, close to 300k if Civil war/Hutt ball ends too quick.
Not trying to brag, because I konw alot of people have been pulling this kinda of dmg as well. 300k is low for any dps class/spec. Even scoundrel/shadow can pulling 400k+ so...
Comments like this can breed false information.
I am a valor rank 38 Gunslinger, and when I get 300k damage in any match, 80% of the time I am the highest damage of all players (including the opposing side).
This is in matches where I am very active and don't die (ever, the entire match).
If what you say is true, why am I not seeing 400k + people in most matches?
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I'm lvl 45 and i have in the log emerging conflict 4(yellow) and 5(red) which i haven't try yet the flashpoints. However i cannot take the previous ones (which i did them before, far than a week). THe question is: are this quest not repeatable? the daily mission terminal said me "not elegible for this conversation"
I believe as you reach certain levels, you are only allowed to take certain ones. For instance, on my 50, I can only take the level V ones.
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More people roll Empire because all the Empire character arcs set your character with a clear motivation to advance themselves, and they reward you handsomely for it. The only character arc on Republic that even has that is Smuggler. Once you get past the starter worlds on Jedi or Trooper, the game becomes "Now go save people/fight the Empire!" All the while, you run into rampant corruption around every turn, proving that even the Republic doesn't care about the Republic. The entirety of Ord Mantell is just as corrupt as Korriban and Hutta. You expect that from Hutta, it's controlled by a crime boss. You expect that from Korriban, it's ruled by the Sith. The one world where the Republic is trying to help fight off a civil war? The people you're fighting were right all along!
Things don't get any better once you get to Coruscant, where you discover Senators using you to advance their careers, and thriving black markets for the very things the Empire does.
Contrast this with the Empire stories, which are all much more varied and deep. Pleasantly absent is any kind of corruption among the leaders, and even one scumbag who tries to sabotage the war effort to advance himself? You have the option to kill his *** while he begs you not to. Sith infighting happens, but you expect that of the Evil Empire. Along the way, you even meet some true patriots who are probably more good-hearted than half of the Republic seems to be.
All the Imperial planet stories are tales of success and aptitude, while the Republic stories are ones of bumbling foolishness and corruption. Why save the Republic when it creates most of its own problems? Better to fight for the Empire where fools who deliberately cause problems are executed for treason.
Let's even take a look at the stories of the first two Republic Flashpoints:
1) Esseles - the very person you're trying to save tells you to go ahead and sacrifice the entire Engineering crew to save time when an alternative exists that won't kill anybody. She apparently considers herself "the greater good". Corruption.
2) Hammer Station - The entire reason Hammer Station was captured in the first place was Republic incompetence. They built it in the first place, realized it could be used as a rallying point against them, decided to destroy it, failed to properly destroy it, and it was abandoned and taken over by the Advose Hegemony, who used it for the very thing everyone was afraid of. Bumbling foolishness.
This is the same Republic that eventually becomes the Empire anyway! Why fight for the losing side?
This post makes me want to quit my 50 Gunslinger (Valor 38, 10/10 operations, 4/10 hard-mode) and switch to the empire right away.
This is single hand-idly the most incredible post I have read in a while. You pretty much summed it up. I hadn't even realized the trend until hearing you say it.
After work tonight, I re-roll, for the empire.
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Too Late to Come Back as a Completionist?
in General Discussion
Posted
Correct. Andryah - i'd be interested if you had a guess at the hours? I know its asking a lot, but even just a guestimate would be nice.