Next nerf will be their sub numbers. Did couple dailies since the patch, that's it. (MM sniper)

Oh man... didn't realize it until now but sniper was orbital strike... Feels like they removed the very reason i enjoyed playing marksman sniper since the early access days. Kinda lost the heart to even log in on it now, if not the game all together. Sure i have alts that i could play but it just ain't the same. I could spec engineer and abuse that bug or something to still get decent aoe but if i wanted to play anything else than marksman i would not be playing a sniper. I don't understand how this travesty of a change makes it past the testing and nobody responsible for it goes ''wait a minute we are destroying the signature move of the agent/smuggler class here.''

My my... such misery. So i'm not exactly the best geared sniper these days as i mostly login to farm rep and such, not part of a guild/doing ops currently. As far as single target is concerned: The OS was hitting for around 5k~, now i just tested it and it does little over 1k. (per tick) So hum... why exactly did they decide we should put the skill back in the spellbook? as auto attack does about the same dmg but doesn't cost energy. Hell even as aoe is concerned frag grenade is probably better now. RIP OS indeed, was such an awesome ability but now i fear it became one of those little dogs who bark a lot very loudly but sadly don't accomplish much else. QQ

Yeah they never fixed it. I have this problem also but there is a way around it. When the last conversation starts and you are looking directly outside to the other ship, there will be some animation like faster than light travel or something, this is what kills the client for some yet to be identified, obscure reason. The alt tab thing works, but make sure you are in full screen mode so that it minimizes your client completely, it won't work if you are in windowed/windowed full screen. So start the convo, if you are soloing, spacebar quickly trough the dialog pick the first selection wheel and alt tab straight away, wait 10-15 secs and pull your game back up, it'll be fine from here one. If you aren't soloing, chances are people won't spacebar trough the dialog as it's often the case with such low lvl instances. In that case just wait until the convo starts, alt-tab straight away and wait it out, 15-25 secs should do the trick. It's a shame but at this point i don't think this will ever get fixed, even more sad that this is the first instance of the game therefor the first ''taste'' of group content new players are getting and given the widespread problem with the crash at the end i wouldn't be surprised if it turned a bunch of people off the game, but hey what do i know. o/

To be fair, played 20 games or so. It has potential but in it's current state... This thing is gonna die off once the novelty has gone. First of all the controls are so dumbed down, basically point the mouse and it goes there... I would have expected more of a dynamic control to the flying so that player skill would make a difference. On that note, once you are engaged into a dogfight with someone, unless the other guy has a much slower ship or doesn't know how to point his mouse to the pink cursor on his Ui, you may as well pull off and disengage to do something more productive as none of you are gonna catch the other 1on1. But the thing that bothers me the most.... No cockpit view, why god, why... the 3rd person allows for so little fun, imo. It's very hard to be precise and then you mostly loose yourself in the point and follow the cursor syndrome. The Ui as well is pretty poor, there needs to be shield and health values displayed somewhere, color green to red is all fun and dandy but there's no way to know when it is ideal to use hull/shield repair, witch doesn't allow for precise gameplay. The turrets defending the stations need to be toned down a little in accuracy so they miss some more, atm they feel way powerful, not when you engage them directly, they die off pretty fast, but when you are fighting nearby it quickly becomes very unfair to whoever doesn't have the turrets. And then the Ui where you got ships, crew, etc, that one needs to be cleaned up, i found my way around it but i can imagine people being very confused as to what is all of this. Could be presented better so that casual players have an easier time figuring things out. K that's for the bad points, i do like this thing however, it's well done and has potential but i am afraid the lifetime is very limited in it's current state, more ''pilot'' skill needs to be put in place so that endless mouse cursor humping loops don't happen anymore and cockpit view for better flying, those are my main 2 complaints.

Ye... Pice of kitten, bought the damn thing and didn't notice it didn't have a dye slot, the colors are poor at best, it is now a useless slot sitting in my cargo hold, an expensive one at that... Oh no, someone gonna run around with a dyed chestpiece, call the cops, seriously.

The chest don't give extra gear, at least for us.. It was only columi comms, and an extra mount. Soa anyways, kara i have no idea as we have yet to see the chest spawn. (didn't even know it existed until they announced it fixed, wich by the way it still doesn't exist.)

This has nothing to do with the ptr and the lack of testing, EV has been out since release and people have been clearing it since the first lockout... Still the same bugs as day 1, in fact more bugs now. Pylon boss workaround are all fine and dandy but there's no helping the last row refusing to turn despite being clickable, only workaround to this is reset the instance, big deal. Yeah, big deal, we lost ''infernal'' title now two weeks in a row because of this nonsense, instance reset = no title. So we could just get it this week right, np, except there won't be a next week, half the raid team had enough and quit all togheter. So much fail in your post i don't even know where to begin... You obviously don't understand what's going on. You think they don't have enough detailed feedback on how things are broken? they've had most of it since the beta. Each patch they release manages to break more things than they fix (if any fix at all). The end game should be one of the only things they would have to polish at this point, yet we are far from it... And even then it's such a mess on every aspect i'm affraid most people who have been 50 for more than a week and are remotely successful at what they do have already lost hope in this game having any future. Op complaint is legit, if you can't understand it i suggest you do yourself a favor and stop posting.

No such thing as relaying concerns, sorry. Just parking the sheeps. On topic: yeah, it's not like i'm planning to go anywhere when taking cover. Pretty silly that a root on us pretty much translates to a full stun because we are denied most of our abilities, MM anyways. Yeah it must be a bug and should be fixed soo... oh wait.

Agree about the stat budget but even then judging from latest sithwarrior compendium finds it turns out you only need 8% to be capped, 3 of wich you get from talents and the last 5, unless i'm mistaken, takes 3 pieces with 51 accuracy assuming rakata gear level. In my raid i use obviously myself, then i have an arsenal merc, and a juggernaut dps, that's alot of armor pen. I got out of bed this morning, went on to serve myself a cofee, then i had a quick look at forums to see if anything was read-worthy, found your post. With one eye still closed i opened up the game, went to the world boss, got 1 pull in as MM to get a ''reference'' then i headed back to respec, stole your build and went back to the boss for another 2 hours of hybrid testing. So yes, it was done after the biochem nerf and i'm positive i could have squeezed more dps if i wasn't half asleep and got more then 1 reference pull. I sure could get rid of 3 enhancements in favor of power/surge/crit ones to optimize hybrid dps further though, in addition to playing it more smoothly. But my comon sense tells me that MM spec might outperform the hybrid given my ops setup. There is also a huge benefit to being a hard hitter rather than spread little numbers, the marauder ''enrage'' (not sure exact name, my knowledge of every spell in the game is still lackcluster.) party wide buff for example might shine alot more with a MM opener where my orbital ticks reach up to the 5k's and my ambushes flirt with the 6k's. Not to mention i can ''global'' bonetrasher adds for instace with a MM spec. All in all i'd say right now i am 50/50 split between my love for MM and a sniper's true intent (imo) and the hybrid spec wich seems somewhat fun to play and doesn't suffer nearly as much from cover mechanics, though, i have absolutly no problem dealing with it playing MM. It's a though choice, if you asked me right now i would probaly answer that : -It depends how well you manage energy levels -It depends on your gear level -It depends on your ops setup -It depends the average lenght of the fights you need to dps in -It depends if your raid leader is competent at his strategies and understands the classes in general -It depends how well you master cover and maximize dps while dropping out of it as few as possible while still ''filling'' the ''downtime'' with somewhat relevant damage. -It depends wether or not you are gearing up doing hardmodes + solo content / pvp or if like me you play your char two hours a week during ops. In the end, i can't tell wich spec is best and probably won't be able to untill we get some sort of logs for ''current boss fight''.

Well, i would be careful before saying that it is the best PVE spec, though i agree alot of people just spread misinformation and produce yet more bad snipers. Altho it has yet to be proven that this hybrid build is better then MM in an ops setting considering the armor debuffs. Keep in mind from my testing it was only a 100~ dps difference between the two. I also did the MM test with 1 pull fresh out of bed so i wasn't the most accurate on my rotation either, i just wanted a general idea before going to respec and try out the hybrid.

Let's see my current gear setup is : ear : rakata enforcer device imps : rakata field medic system bracers : orange modded with 58 armoring and 58 mod = +81 endu + 122 cunn +11 power relics : matrix cube + rakata power relic aug'd with 28 cunning set : 5/5 rakata field tech modded with 37/61/11 mods belt : orange modded same as bracers but +11 crit instead of power Mh : T3 the headhunter Oh : T2 the cloaked eliminator (i do have the T3 ''ghost'' it has power but lower cunning than T2, no crit, no surge so i think T2 is bis by far untill they get their act togheter and fix the itemization.) 5% crit from buff, rakata cunning stim. comparison T2 oh vs T3 oh for reference (and perhaps insight as to why i should use T3 instead): ---T2-----------------T3 80 endu ---------- 98 endu 97 cunn ---------- 85 cunn 72 crit ------------ 51 acc 48 surge ---------- 82 power 605 tech power --- 612 tech power Fair point, i was thinking the same 2 weeks or so ago but then i went on field testing and unequiped all my accuracy gear and started hitting random 50 mobs in ilum, i definetly got my stuff dodged and such, then again i was MM. Might be different with your hybrid spec due to how heavily MM suffers from their attack being ''physical''. Currently i only use the earpiece + 51 acc, the rifle +51 acc and helm + gloves +51acc, changed the 3 other enhancements in favor of power/surge ones. The adrenal nerf is huge... went from 565 power down to 475, that is 25 power more then the lvl 48 blue one... Definetly seeing a big difference. Probably yeah, i will keep it for now and try some random hms and the regular ops clear along this week, see what happens. Then i will try the droid again once i get a better feeling of the build. I'm up to test different builds though, should they prove a better alternative. Always looking to improve potential.

You do make a good point Tibbel, perhaps then the 100ish dps difference i am seeing between MM and the hybrid spec could be completely offset by ops setting. I am concerned about burst damage aswell, mainly bonetrasher wich i have one half of the platform to cover with the little adds that he eats, and soa p3. Altho, soa p3 i think is no problem as you can stack all your dots premptively and get some sick damage in with the hybrid spec aswell, perhaps more than MM could with a perfectly timed orbital. In the end, i can't wait for someone (bioware or not) to develop an actual damage meter so all of this arguing can be meaningful and we can spec for the most damage without concerns.

Hello, good sir. I have spent two hours testing your build, and it would appear it is indeed slightly better than my old 30/8/3 MM build, not by much but still better. Seeing as i like to min/max, it looks like that's what i'll be playing from now on, it pains me, in a way. I think this kind of gameplay couldn't be further away from what i rolled sniper for and leaving MM behind, if only for a 100~ dps increase, is breaking my heart. This being said, have a few questions if you don't mind. i would like to know what is your current stat balance, self buffed, to pull a 1700 dps average. As it turns out, my average yielded 1614,6583 dps, of course this could be attributed to the fact i've only had 2 hours to practice the spec and play it correctly but i am still curious. What do you aim for in therms of accuracy, crit, surge, and what is your current cunning/power. Dropping MM made me loose accuracy, as a result, i am now 1.33% under the ''soft cap'' wich could account for the dps difference. for reference, my current stat balance, self buffed is: damage (pri) : 893-985 480.2 bonus damage, 2007 cunning, 221 power 96.67% acc (lost a bit due to mm acc talent drop, this can be fixed) 42.35% crit 84.76% critical multiplier The reason i'm asking is because i have no experience whatsoever with such a build, and all my numbers could be way off wich in addition to lack of experience could explain the dps difference. Thanks. edit: oh yeah of course this ''field testing'' was done with the nerfed stims/adrenals.

Thug-Ra, i was going to reply but then sir pwner over there pretty much summed it up for me. Also nobody is saying rapid fire is the holy grail, every decent sniper agrees it is a lackcluster 31 pt talent. As a matter of fact i do not utilize this talent myself, wich if you bothered to read my previous posts on this very thread you'd have figured. And also i wasn't calling you an idiot, sorry about that i should have worded it differently and not use that expression. My point was maybe it's not everyone else that's doing it wrong, maybe, most definetly, it's you. Now you can either disregard the advice that's being given and carry on doing worse than you should, or you can pick a few things up and improve your gameplay, as the purpose of this thread has gone to.

QFT. Classic case of i am not an idiot, everyone else is. Just gonna pick apart a few things just so it doesn't sounds like i'm discrediting for the fun of it. Energy tanks? really? Not sure about how everyone else do it but i rarely stand in fire. Laze target snipe after ambush on rotation priority? I might suggest to examine closer the reactive shot talent. Series of shots should be taken off bars? It's one of the most efficient abilites we have for crying out loud. Sure it costs a hefty energy amount but it also has a 3 secs channel time during wich you deal a fair amount of damage and regen energy. Oribtal strike single target is bad.. erm... just because the ability requieres a couple more brain cells then the rest to be used efficiently doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you need to be smart about it and time it just right, in operations this comes with trial and error and lots of studying boss timings. I've been clearing 6 lockouts worth of ops and i'm just starting now to feel good about my orbital timings. @TheRagingPwner So i have been working on what you said. As it turns out, the instant snipe is awesome BUT it is not casual friendly at all. The ability should be used with caution, like you said, when on the move. The rest of the time it still should be canceled and without macro support to produce a /cancelaura type of keybind it can get obnoxious. I will try it out in our next nightmare clear and see if i can bear with the right clicking action for the few advantages it provides in specific scenarios. I wouldn't use instant snipe in my opener ever though. As for the rapid fire scenario you pointed out, yeah, it works prety good. But again i would use the ability in burst scenarios mostly, therefore i am still not convinced seeing as i can produce more burst by other means, in wich case the 5% added on orbital is still better. (for me anyways, i'm not saying it's bad it's just matter of preference, from what little testing i have done it turns out you can either get rapid fire or the 5% dmg on orbital, both of wich if played correctly give very similar results. With the minor difference that the ''orbital'' spec gives slightly more burst, where as the RF spec gives slightly more overal damage.) Not saying you are wrong, i will need to test rapid fire in a nightmare ops still.

Yeah i can agree to that but then again when i need to move for a period of time this is when i use corrosive dart and refresh armor debuff in addition to the followthrough i probably have waiting for cd to finish, if all else fails, rifle shot is better than nothing. Also i'm not sure what other guilds are using but the strategies i came up with, specifically for soa nightmare, doesn't involve anyone moving, other then the players targeted by the balls in wich case they move for 10 seconds max. Bonetrasher nightmare there is no movement at all, except when the boss hitbox prevents me from taking down the little adds that spawn on my covered half of the platform, then i just move enough to be able to select them. Tab doesn't seem to work. QQ (those little adds wich gives him a mini enrage if he eats them, not the big adds that spawns at 50%, those are just offtanked until boss is dead) Gharj is another that comes to mind, pop orbital for adds then i also use corrosive dart and i stay on the platform and dps untill the last moment where running to next one doesn't cause me to end up in his landing aoes. Jarg and sorno also involve quite the moving in and out but as long as you undind take cover completely and bind ''take cover in place'' instead then the cover mechanic disadvantage becomes nearly completely negated as it's off the gcd and somewhat reliable. Can't really think of another fight where i'm not sitting in the same spot for the duration, save for the ''moving out of fire'' things wich, with take cover in place used proprely is not a dps loss at all compared to any other spec/class. I'm all in for other specs giving more mobility and the likes, but MM is the only tree wich gives that sniper feel to the class, and i make it work so anyone with half a clue should too. If i were to spec engineering or lethality then i'd rather play another class. edit: Interesting, i hear you, will definetly try this out. The question is wether or not the instant snipe/followthrough makes up for what i usually do in such situations wich i described above. Rest of the time i would still end up cancelling the buff to get the good old casted snipe off for energy purposes. Also the RF thing, i will try it out too. It's hard to tell wich way to go about MM is the optimal without any kind of real time damage meters... i'm also full rakata with over 2200 cunning, hopefully will break 2250 tommorow when the weapons are finally fixed! \o/

One step forward, two steps backwards. \o/

I'm glad you asked, the reason i don't like instant snipe is because when i started playing tor i had no idea about the game so i just took a cookie cutter spec and went on with my leveling. I was one of the first 50's on server so i had plenty of time to play around and start thinking for myself beyond a cookie cutter build and it doesn't matter how i tried to turn it around, the results were the same, instant snipe was like shooting myself in the foot. My energy suffered heavily from it and it didn't seem it was worth the damage. Only cool thing about it is that it allows for a snap, no cast time ability but to be fair if we look at it that way i would rather use the 20 energy dot instead as it seems to produce more damage and doesn't requiere cover so it can be casted on the move. Snipe is by far our worse dps ability, produces no damage to speak of and is insanely energy intensive. More often than not i found myself cancelling the buff as the last thing i wanted was to be able to spam this as soon as i entered cover. Now the rotation is use also doesn't allow for such an energy dump straight away, without cast time. (cast time allows for energy regen, imo casted snipe is better than instant one in every aspect) Here is what usually happens : Cover Armor debuff Orbital strike (i've seen it roll for 5k ticks effectively giving 15k free damage if marauder damage buff + all 3 ticks crit, on average i'd say it pulls 10-12k damage.Highest single target damage per energy ability by far.) Laze target / power relic / power adrenal / alacrity buff (target acquiered?) with 2 set field tech i get 10 energy from it 1.2 sec snipe/followthrough, procs reactive shot, also i'm back at 100% energy the instant snipe goes off 1.2 secs ambush/series of shot countermeasures followthrough carry on with priority system armor debuff,takedown, followthrough, orbital, ambush, series of shots, snipe, rifle shot With this in mind, i can't fit explosive probe nor the dot thing without hurting my overal dps. Trust me i've tried, and i would like having another ability to use but again it doesn't matter how i try to turn it around i always end up at a dps loss. To the other guy who says i need to l2p, the 31 point talent is only somewhat decent for a burst scenario, in wich case i'd rather do what i just listed as it is much higher dps in the same timeframe and doesn't dump energy needlessly. Besides the only fight where that is relevant would be soa nightmare p3, wich with a well timed orbital and this precise rotation (takedown takes sos spot), i dare any sos spamming sniper to outdps me. (won't happen) The ability is also heavily reliant on crits to do significant damage, and i'd rather save adrenaline probe to get an orbital off on top of my normal damage rather than 3 sos. The problem with this game is people will theorycraft their numbers and base their gameplay on that, thing is it doesn't work. The energy system is unforgiving and what looks good on paper might very well be another story in practice, what does it matter if you can pump 10k dps for 10 secs and then 5k for 20 secs, i'd rather do 7k dps for the full 30 secs. And again, i've no problem pumping crazy burst when needed, without rapid fire. Wich i'd rather take another 5% dmg on orbital instead, more burst imo. I'm open to discussion though, and if you think i'm doing something wrong point it out i'd be happy to correct my gameplay, altho, i've been at maximizing my dps for a while now and this build/opener came out on top.

Matrix cube and Power relic. (if you are bad geared you might want to consider crit/surge relic untill your default crit rate is 35%+ and surge 75%+) edit: also, 10/10 nightmare MM 30/8/3 http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#400rsrzdRoRgZbIZh.1 1 point in leg shot and heavy shot because that's the only way to reach tier 5 without handicaping oneself. Both talents are useless but better then making oneself worse by taking instant snipe or alacrity buff. Don't use corrosive dart or w/e it's called either, damage per energy is not bad but it just doesn't fit in ''rotation'' unless you plan on rifle shotting 30% of a boss fight, same goes for explosive probe. 3/3 explosive engineering is for orbital damage only, wich with a field tech 4 set, it happens on pull for free. 31 point talent is just awful for overal dps, don't touch it with a ten foot pole, unless rifle shot is what turns you on.

You find them in duplicate armor tokens, buy whatever has the best mods/enhances then rip them out and put in your ''main'' armor. (altho, you'll spend 30k~ every time you take something from another t2/3 epic) Turn on detailed item tooltips in options if you havn't already, it will give you all the info about an item on mouseover.

Field tech 4 set, replace the mods/enhances for higher cunning ones + crit/surge enhances once you reach 100% acc. Aim for 40ish% crit, 80%+ surge though do not go over 85%. The reduced energy on our below 30% finisher is requiered for maximum dps, else that ability would not fit into our play without bleeding us dry of energy in the highest dps phase of a fight. (inconvenient at best.) The +10 energy on alacrity buff is explained below. Play MM, (with the correct spec, 30/8/3 though i doubt you'll find it here on forums.) use your 20% armor debuff and keep it up when it rusn out (not worth it on anything with less then 35k hp), use orbital on pull (yes single target) then pop all your cds (relic/adrenal/laze target/alacrity buff) cast snipe, by the time snipe finishes you are at 100% energy effectively giving you free orbital (mine can do up to 3x 5k ticks when coupled with marauder buff, on avergae it gives 3-4k ticks.), followthrough in the same global, since you laze target'd, cast ambush next as it is 1.5s cast now, series of shots in the same global, followthrough, snipe, fill in with rifle shot when only snipe is available and your energy would suffer from using it before ambush/sos comes back off cd. Always place two abilities on same global, 1 cast + 1 instant or 1 cast + 1 channeled, typically this will be snipe/followthrough, ambush/series of shot, snipe/rifle shot if energy is an issue, ambush/takedown below 30%, etc. Obviously these combos will change around as your cooldowns on abilities dictate. Alternatively, you could burn energy to about 30% then use adrenaline probe to recover for added burst, it's a matter of preference wether you want to do that or save the probe to make sure you can cast another orbital 45 secs later without having your energy suffer. Make sure you would not dip below 60% by casting anything, if that's the case, fill with rifle shot untill it no longer holds true. Do not use explosive probe/the dot dart unless very specific scenarios, mainly if you are forced to run enough that you would recover the 20 energy waste from the dot by the time you get into cover again. (gharj for example) Enjoy godly dps. If i did not make myself clear feel free to ask specific questions.

16 man just means you can afford to have more people who aren't pulling their own weight and still kill stuff. From my experience.

xcept for line of sight

Class might become half decent when new wzs are implemented and they stop putting los options every other yard. You canot win against anyone that has l2p and know how to abuse your 1000's of flaws, left alone doing any damage that isn't rifle shot/overload shot. I used to enjoy pvp alot, went to valor 48 pretty fast but i wouldn't touch the wz button with a ten foot pole since a good 3 weeks. (that's about when people started to l2p against me) Before that sure, i was tearing stuff apart.