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    Guidlines for Fixing this Class

    in Sentinel / Marauder

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Introduction

     

    I originally wasn't going to submit this to the forums, and had mostly written this to vent my frustrating at playing what was once one of my favorite classes. Given, in my opinion, the disappointing (lack) of changes in 3.1.1, I'm putting this up so the Devs have some idea on where to go from here.

     

    Let me preface this essay of sorts that this isn’t meant to be a long string of requests. Matters concerning the weakness of the advanced class and demands for change and the like can be readily seen in the multiple forums, on the Star Wars subreddit, and on virtually any other active TOR related resource. Rather, let this be a guideline for the options that could be approached in 3.1.1 and beyond.

     

    The reason why I’m writing this is not for myself but for my love for both the game and the class. Many players have asked me, “What’s wrong with the class?” After thinking about this for quite a while, this is the result.

     

    I’ll try to be as exhaustive in providing the guidelines for the changes; I will provide the problems I have observed in 3.0 and the solutions for each. I will also list the changes in the context of being applicable to Solo Ranked or Team Ranked, as this delicate balance is up to the developers to decide.

     

    Overarching Issues

     

    Survivability

     

    Once the epitome of survivability, they are now undoubtedly among the squishier due to survivability buffs to other classes. This, however, is much in the realm of regular warzones and Solo Ranked rather than Team Ranked. Although Saber Ward has since become an ability not fitting its long cooldown, Force Camouflage on 45 seconds is still the most useful escape in the game, and of course, who can forget Undying Rage.

     

    It is not my opinion that Marauder cooldowns be extremely buffed, as there is little issue for survivability in a Team Ranked situation. There is an issue, however, in the other forms of PvP. This next section is to placate the Solo Ranked and Warzone crowd while providing a clear distinction between Marauders and other classes. Heal to full, ala Juggernauts, is an oft suggested method of fixing the class, but is one I feel will further blur the line differentiating the two advanced classes. Instead I will focus on the essential abilities of the advanced class.

     

    Cloak of Pain: All damaged reduced by 25%, up from 20%

    Reasoning: Changing this would appease the vast majority of Sentinels/Marauders while making the advanced class a less viable target to tunnel than before – as is often the case now.

     

    Force Camouflage: Additionally purges all effects.

    Reasoning: Provides a higher skill ceiling to the class while also providing some extra survivability. To cleanse root or not to cleanse root? To cleanse DoTs? Use as an escape? These decisions add to the already steep skill curve of the class while giving all players a form of added (albeit slight) protection.

     

    Predation: Increases all defenses by 10%, changed from just melee/ranged defense. Duration remains the same.

    Reasoning: Minor buff, but makes it more usable than the current effects. Will not affect overall gameplay, but will allow Marauders some added if small form of defense against the current Sorc/Assassin/PT triumvirate.

     

    Undying Rage: 50% of health is lost upon use, instead of after the duration ends. Cooldown reduced to 1.5 minutes, down from 2 minutes.

    Reasoning: The current implementation of Undying Rage runs counter to the entire idea of self-healing in the Watchman Discipline, and essentially becomes a survive by four more seconds button. This isn’t quite what the class needs right now. Reverting to the old Undying Rage, possibly as a Utility, has the benefit of slightly higher survivability, especially in situations with a healer. Also would be a charming change for the most Marauders who remember the old Undying.

     

    Force Absorb (new ability): Absorbs the damage taken over the next three seconds and turns it into healing.

    Reasoning: Necessitates greater micromanagement and awareness for the more veteran players, while providing a form of self-heals completely different from any currently in the game. In other words, maintains the differentiation between Marauders and Juggernauts and any other self-healing class while giving Marauders some method of health recovery. The juxtaposition between this ability and the Juggernaut’s more offensive Saber Reflect is also a nice touch.

    Efficacy

     

    This section will be brief as I believe the essentials of playing a Marauder is managing to deal with stuns and crowd control effects in order to increase up-time and consequently increase effectiveness. Too many classes have anti-CC/root effects, and adding one to Marauders seems to me as simply band-aiding the situation (although one should be given to the Carnage discipline, as will be explained later). Nevertheless, here are a few solutions to the complaints involving Marauders and stuns.

     

    Utility: Saber Ward grants immunity to all CC-effects for the duration of the ability.

    Reasoning: A parallel skill to that available for Shadows.

     

    Utility: Force Predation grants immunity to all CC-effects for the Marauder for the duration of the ability

    Reasoning: Transforms one of the most iconic Sentinel/Maraduer abilities into something actually usable in PvP. Additionally with the above changes, should make deciding between Berserk and Predation something to actually think about, rather than just using Berserk 99% of the time.

     

    Disciplines

     

    The developers have done an excellent job in re-creating Annihilation while maintaining the spirit of the original. Fury and Carnage – not so much. Both Fury and Carnage now play similarly – with Massacre being replaced by Slash as the focus spender, and the burst itself almost parallel in terms of both damage and cycle, with Carnage perhaps having a more concise window due to Gore. Both specs have lost a little bit of their original style, and this next section will discuss changes for each of the specs in order to attempt to not only buff each specification as needed but to also return each discipline to one most Marauders will be comfortable with.

     

    Carnage

     

    Carnage will be the longest section as it is also the most troubled. There are three main problems with Carnage. First, is the mediocre burst, especially in comparison to other “burst” specs, the vulnerability to CC and the limited uptime on other players. Once the go-to spec for Marauders in Team Ranked, Carnage’s burst and damage output can be easily doubled by many other classes. All issues can be solved easily a few simple changes.

    Changes to Fix Burst

     

    The core of the Carnage in each and every patch was simple: Gore into Ravage into Force scream. In 3.0 it is still possible during Berserk but often times doesn’t seem worth it. Burst wise, in PvP, a Marauder is better off using a critical Execute into Force Scream, or even a Massacre into Force Scream. Using Ravage (an ability that does less damage than Force Storm) often seems like a waste of an ability – an idea hard to stomach for most Carnage Marauders considering Ravage was their hardest hitter since patch 1.0. The burst likewise fell dramatically, leading to Carnage often feeling like a pressure class with above average burst, a weird role for what was one of the premier burst specs in Ranked. Here are some easy fixes for 3.1.1 that should solve this problem:

     

    Ravage passive: Increase Ravage damage by 30%.

    Reasoning: Slightly stronger than the Rampage passive given to Juggernauts. In this case, would return Carnage burst relevancy – vital for a class that is used in Team Ranked only and categorically for its burst.

     

    Gore: Gore now lasts 4.5 seconds, up from 3.0 seconds.

    Reasoning: One of the more bizarre changes in 3.0 gets reverted. Yes, the overall mantra for 3.0 was to reduce or maintain damage numbers from pre-3.0, but somehow this left Marauders way behind relative to other classes. This change would allow Carnage Marauders a wider burst window than the current three seconds, allowing Marauders more options during Gore (including the old Massacre times three into Scream that was one of the more iconic parts of the rotation all the way back pre-2.0).

     

    Changes to Fix Stun Susceptibility

     

    Carnage Marauders remain the only class within the game to have the large portion of an entire rotation’s damage wasted due to a single stun or soft-stun. Steps have to be taken to mitigate this fact, especially on a rotational basis. Here are a few fixes:

     

    Gore: Activation of Gore now grants three stacks, each stack consumed upon each Devastating Blast, Execute, Twin Saber Throw or Massacre.

    Reasoning: Fixes the issue, although destroys the essence of Carnage Marauders. I do not recommend this fix.

     

    Gore: Gore grants immunity to CC for the duration of the ability.

    Reasoning: Likewise, fixes the issue, although depending on the balancing decisions for Carnage in 3.1.1 may be overpowered. If buffs to Carnage damage are made, especially in regards to the burst potential in the Gore phase, consider changing it to immunity to knock-back and movement impairing effects.

     

    Limited uptime

     

    Another issue with Carnage is the severe lack of uptime relative not only to the other two Marauder specs but other classes in general. The only gap closer is Leap, but once Leap is used, there is no secondary way to get to the target. This issue is easily rectified: bring back Crippling Throw for Carnage, or possibly, for all other Disciplines.

     

    Crippling Throw: Delivers a crippling attack with the main-hand lightsaber, dealing damage, inflicting trauma for 15 seconds and rooting the target for 3 seconds.

     

    Annihilation

     

    Once the go-to spec for Marauders, it ceased to play a major factor in any level of PvP by patch 1.3 with Gore off the global for Carnage, and with 1.4 and the buff to Rage. Inexplicably, in 1.5, the healing was nerfed by half, a change presumably for PvP that has stayed to this day – despite even Lethality snipers having more healing prowess than Annihilation. The problems facing Annihilation are not as serious as Carnage, especially due to its relegation to a more PvE focused specification for about two years now. Yet, the developers seem to have always wanted to make Annihilation somewhat viable in PvP, with quality of life changes up to and including patch 3.0. Despite these changes, problems for Annihilation still exist, especially in regards to heals, DoT duration and use of Smash to spread dots.

     

    Self-Heals

     

    Hungering Passive: Critical hits with bleed effects heal for 2% of maximum health, up from 1%.

    Reasoning: The reason Annihilation was run over Rage and Carnage was entirely due to this talent. It gave Marauders some form of healing that might have been deemed too much at one point in the cycle of the game, but by now seems mediocre. The pressure damage of Annihilation along with the healing might bring back Annihilation to relevancy. In fact, with these changes Annihilation might become the go-to spec once again, at least for Warzones and Solo Ranked where survivability is key.

     

    DoT Duration

     

    The burst for Annihilation was never particularly outstanding, but in its current state is almost pitiful. Berserk (on a roughly 20 second rotation) with all available DoTs running gets the target down to perhaps 60-70% health. The main issue with this is the weakness of the new Annihilation DoT, which inexplicably hits less than a Crushing Darkness.

     

    Force Gash: Force Gash damage is now increased by 25%.

    Berserk: Additionally increases critical damage DoT effects by 30%.

    Reasoning for both: Gives Annihilation some form of added burst potential and transforms the discipline into a much more powerful pressure class.

     

    Use of Smash in Annihilation

     

    While the return (somewhat) of Dotsmash is an interesting touch, as of now, the range of Smash combined with the ineffectiveness of the DoTs that are spread make Annihilation quite literally a much weaker version of Hatred Assassins. In a Team Ranked game, it is not uncommon to see Hatred Assassins doubling the damage of Marauders running in any Discipline; this makes Annihilation the orphaned child in PvP, as its role almost perfectly coincides with that of Hatred Assassins. As of now, Marauders have little to no AOE capability (I apologize, but Sweeping Slash costs one focus too much and still hits like a wet noodle). A simple change to Marauder AOE is as follows:

     

    Smash: Smash additionally spreads the effects of Overload Saber to nearby enemies.

    Reasoning: Marauders get some form of effective area of effect damage.

     

    Fury

     

    This discipline is one of the finer tuned ones, and so I’ll refrain from overall changes. The discipline in many ways is a slightly improved version of Carnage – burst is unpreventable, better sustained damage abilities and the potential for as much if not more burst than Carnage. Yet, Fury is also a weaker version of a Juggernaut’s Vengeance or even their own Rage discipline. Where I’d like to see changes going forward is perhaps a move to return Fury back to the original Smash spec. Marauders are one of the few classes in the game in need of actual area of effect damage. In an era of insane AOE potential, Marauders are pigeon-holed into single target burst specs; an area of expertise that Marauders are currently not even good at relative to other classes. Having more roles to play with is always more fun and with the return of Smash to hitting all targets equally as hard, would return Marauders back into the highest tier of AOE classes. Fanciful thinking, you may say, but Smash in today's game balance would not have been as overpowered as it was when it was originally changed.

     

    Conclusion

     

    I have hopefully kept each potential change and the logic behind each change clear. In short, these Marauder changes should finally make the class up to date at a point in The Old Republic’s development where other classes and specifications have been continually revised and updated. The forgotten class and its relative stagnation should have been fixed patches ago. Hopefully the next patch will be a step in the right direction.

    Initial 3.1.1 Patch Notes are up...

    in Sentinel / Marauder

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Really? Crippling slash now doesn't have to be applied twice it just roots the target. Undying Rage no longer requires a health penalty so it can be used at anytime. The return of the unkillable mara. This is a good change and minimal honestly. I can't wait to play with it.

     

    3 minute Undying (double the cooldown what it was in patch 2.5) and a reversion of a change that should never have happened? A "step" if you want to call it, although I'm not sure if it's in the right direction, and I'm sure most of us are quite disappointed...

     

    3.1.1 does nothing to fix Sentinels/Maras.

    Bartle Types and the Predictability of Ilum Rage

    in The Ebon Hawk

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Outstanding thread. I think Bioware should note that a mix of the four archetypes tends to produce spectacular and controversial results - which despite the constant complaints about the event, is a recipe for success in my opinion.

     

    I think this thread might be interesting enough that a repost in General Discussion might be worthwhile.

    Thoughts on these Carnage/Combat Parses?

    in Sentinel / Marauder

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Just reposting these to the Repub side mirror forums so I can get some people to see these.

     

    Over in the mara forums, a challenge was issued to make vexo/keelling shut up or put up a 2150 parse with No Bloodthirst. Vexo responded with this parse http://www.torparse.com/a/97111/time/1357933939/1357934292/0/Overview. A 2163 (without edit at end its 2106) parse with no Bloodthirst OR adrenals. Now, my point here is that DPSCraft sims put a full 63 mara at 2150ish dps with no armor debuff but with all CD's. This is essentially what this is http://www.torparse.com/a/98355/time/1358133486/1358133796/0/Damage+Dealt No armor debuff, use of all CD's, comes out to around 2150ish dps. This is a normal parse for a high end raiding sent/mara.

     

    Now, how exactly is one mara suddenly doing 100 more DPS than any other mara/sent in the world (Possibly more) when we use no adrenals or bloodthirsts? He uses near identical rotations, nothing special there. Yet, as he claims he can parse at 2150 with no armor debuff, no BT, and no Adrenals. yet, he's never even posted a 2200+ parse with BT and adrenals? Surely, someone so good could pull another 100 dps out of those two items and break 2250 even?

    It's pretty simple, he had a friend armor debuff his target. That's your missing 100 dps right there. I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting really really annoyed listening to Vexo and Okuy/Keeling telling everyone about how they're the best, then posting nothing but average parses then suddenly posting up something thats 100 higher than should realistically be possible.

     

    Please, if I'm full of garbage; let me know. If you agree, let me know. I don't particularly care either way, but this kind of stuff is beyond ridiculous.

     

    I've done 2120 with 61 gear, so 2160 is possible. It does take a lucky parse though (lucky meaning doing it for hours on end).

     

    But Vexo is pretty much a laughing stock on our server.

    Top commando heals on server

    in The Bastion

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    I know Lithe doesn't want me to say this, but he was one of the best Mando heals on our server before mergers, and he's still the best I've seen after mergers. Unfortunately spends most of his time on his alts now : \

     

    I've heard Theboss is good too, but I haven't encountered him much, so I'm not sure.

    Ultimate PvP Records Thread

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    The point is, posting your numbers is one thing for fun or your egos etc., but thinking it corresponds to your complete performance or skill is simply lofty. Main reason being because most of these scores are subject to manipulation and or inflated variables.

     

    Agreed. It's fun to see high numbers though :D

     

    Well-respected players on individual servers are well-respected for a reason, and it's often not because they pull high numbers.

    4-man SM Kephess the Undying

    in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    No its not, NiM EV drops rakata and so does SM Asation. NiM EV is only 'easier' because its been out since day 1.

     

    Mechanics wise, EV is much easier than TfB. The first boss of EV basically is straight up DPS, second boss is the same as the first, only melee need to run in and out, third boss is repeatedly killing some mobs and pressing a button, fourth boss is just basically attacking a dummy. The only boss with any semblance mechanics is SOA.

     

    And, as Decipio said, we'll do EV NiM in PvP gear, and maybe even Mando heals (as our Mando heals evidently has no trouble healing Operator and Kephess).

     

    You can be affiliated with us in spirit!

     

    Thanks for the support.

     

    Also, anyone have any ideas for Terror? We're running into a wall with the tentacles.

     

    Maybe we should try our T & Z method. Or you tank both xD

    *Looking for real DPS on server.

    in The Bastion

    Posted

    I know you didn't come up with that on your own. You probably typed in Vexo to torparse and looked at my logs. I came up with that exact rotation you were using in that 4 man video back in June. No one was carnage back then. So yeah it is mine.

     

    I didn't look at your logs. Normal people (such as I) use Torparse to see the effect of varying stat combinations/rotations, and not to see other people's logs...

     

    In fact now that you mention it, looking over the log page is such a chore that I doubt anyone seriously does that.

    Thoughts on 1.5 Watchman Heal Nerf?

    in Sentinel / Marauder

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Watchman still viable in normals, in fact, I would actually argue Combat is becoming a chore to play with the recent influx of bubble stun sorcs.

     

    I do wish there was extra utility in Watchman though - it used to be so much more useful for the team back in 1.0, especially with the extra heals.

    Another slight sentinel nerf...

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by -Yui-

    Thanks BW, I'm sure Watchman/Annihilation was so totally OP that everyone uses it in Warzones. It's surely the nerf to that one spec we have all been calling for.

     

    I'll go back lolsmashing now.

    2200 parse as Carnage

    in Combat Styles

    Posted

    It's actually a standard Combat/Carnage priority list. The more you play the spec, you'll get your timing down to the point that you have a full stack of Fury exactly as Gore comes off CD (even better when activating Gore actually gets you the final stacks of Fury).

     

    That being said, even though our priority list was nearly identical (I never used Cauterize though because I could never find a way to justify as a DPS increase over Blade Rush), the highest I've pulled was 1900 in 61 gear with no adrenals and no Bloodlust/Inspiration. With 63 gear and using those abilities I figure I could have gotten to 2050ish, so regardless 2195 is a good number.

     

    Priority isn't as important at parses above 2k because it becomes a set rotation. It becomes focus management and making sure you don't make one mistake.

    Full Min/Max WH Rage Marauder Stream

    in PvP

    Posted

    I haven't seen you kill anyone with leap > force choke > lolsmash yet. ;p

     

    ... and... I can't find your gear under all that fat! :p

     

    Sigh... should I go back to lolsmash? I don't like lolsmash.

     

    I almost never use Stassis. Between Zen and Exhaustion you should rarely be using Stassis at all.

     

    And...

     

    =.= I'm not fat : \

    Full Min/Max WH Rage Marauder Stream

    in PvP

    Posted

    Ha! I am glad someone is pushing this class to its full potential.

    Too bad I missed that stream.

     

    Can you please post your stats here so I can refer to when I finally get to tweak my Sentinel? :)

     

    Haven't you inspected me several times in game before? :eek:

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