If healing and damage were one par this game would be stupid. You would need equal amount of healers on your team as the other team has DPS. Is that what you want really? I guarantee you don't complain when you have a healer on your team keeping you alive. Play the game and shut up.

Also, OP, you didn't even spell Assassin correct you frickin' noob.

Another complete set of ********. People have 30k hp now. To kill them in the 4 seconds they are down from spike it virtually impossible. They go down, GCD 1.5 sec, 8k Maul if you are lucky, GCD again, then one voltaic slash and they are up before the animation is done. Don't *********** exaggerate.

This is ********.. don't feed them. For one deflection doesn't make you invincible. Secondly, end zone to mid is over 100m.

For all you haters that haven't been playing deception for over a year.. go **** yourselves. We deserve a moment to shine. We have no more utility then others. Ours is geared towards bursting someone down. If you take that away its goes back to the year that deception was useless and everyone rolled tankassin. No thank you. I have been faithful to the tree from day one and I am happy people notice it and actually have to run when you pop on 'em. If you are gunna nerf us then nerf everyone else at the same time. We are where we need to be. Start queuing with healers if you don't won't to get rolled. Do some ranked then come complain. 99% of these posts are from people who queue randoms and hate that they don't go 20-0. Randoms aren't balanced. We are not OP in ranked. We are finally useful.

Before people post about how to make credits one of the obvious ways that we already know, refer to the OP. This isn't saying there is no way to make credits at all. It is saying there is not sufficient credits from doing PvP. No matter what anyone comes on here are says about crafting, dailies, GTN or anything else, this still remains ture and IS an issue, whether you would like it to be or not. EDIT: Moving this to the OP

This is a good solution, for you. Appreciate you not trolling but once again this is not what the thread is about. I went to Makeb to level because PvP is far too slow, another issue which I won't pry on, and that is enough PvE to hold me over until the next expansion.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5215/screenshot2013041917480.jpg http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/8499/screenshot2013041917513.jpg There is two images showing force shroud activated and clearly active before the attack. Sadly this was very easy to do..

This has happened to me many, many times as well. I will try and get some screen shots to help the issue. I thought it was just me. I was very excited to see this post!

So glad some people understand and can talk about this like a civilized human. We aren't asking for anything that would harm the PvE world. Quite frankly, we are fine staying out of your way forever! Just give us whats needs to make the game more enjoyable.

This is still missing the point, completely. We don't want to PvE. PvE players do not have to PvP. THIS IS THE POINT. There is not viable ways to make credits thru PvP activity. Also, noting the 5-10 down time. I work and when I log on it is peek time for ques and they are instant. Still not the point. Even if I had 30 minutes of downtime I would like to have something other then PvE quests to do. If there were PvP quests I would gladly spend all of my downtime in the world doing them. Let's not lie to ourselves saying PvE players with plenty of cash don't spend more time on Fleet then anyone. Dailies raids and crafting take far less time then Grinding PvP.

Define lazy, please. How can anyone playing a game be graded on their ambition to work. You are sitting in a chair pushing buttons. So if that is all we have to go by then when I am PvPing the entire time I am on I would have to say I am far less lazy then the people standing in Fleet all day. BUT once again another irrelevant post from a PvE fan boy who has no room to comment here. If less people like you played the game and understood all parts, they would know this is more then a valid issue.

Once again the basis of this thread is still the issue. There are not enough credits available for PvP'ers thru PvP activity Saying to go quest or get creds thru crew skills and the GTN are nice and all but that still doesn't move the balance. Those options are available to everyone and enjoyed only by the PvE community. I do believe this thread is in the PvP section of the Forum. We, as PvP'ers, want an alternative, an equal, a viable, PVP way to make credits. It's really not much to ask for and it honestly does not affect the PvE community in any way. EDIT: I guess it would effect them in one way. They will make more credits from their ridiculous GTN prices when we have enough creds to purchase more. Sooo why the QQ

I appreciate the positive feedback. I do have my companions going full time. This still is not the point at hand. PvE players also do this, on top of their other resource income. We do not have sufficient credit supply though PvP activity. They made mods available with comms and personally I love that. I was never able to afford them last patch. I wouldn't mind seeing Aug slots and Augs available this way as well. Maybe then the PvE'ers can come PvP for their items. Hmm.

Before any of your posts, put the shoe on the other foot. You aren't PvP'ers so go post about your issues that you actually know about. Once again, we need more credits thru PvP activity.

OOOH OK. SOrry that us "Lazy PvP'ers" don't have time for this because we are grinding gear for all hours we have to play. If I only had to raid once a week and do an hour of dailies the free time would not be an issue. Also, let's not act like all PvE players have to do this. They can make enough credits thru raids, a few FP's and dailes to keep them going fine. All in much less time then we spend in WZ's.

Do the mats just appear? Oh you need to PvE for them. No thanks. Missing the point at hand again. We don't want to PvE. Sending my companion on a mission also costs as much as I make in a 15 minute WZ. The balance isn't here so don't bother trying to defend it.

Irrelevant. Talkin' 'bout creds. Another bump. Ty

I have raided in numerous game for numerous years. At my age, most likely longer then you have been playing. I don't PvE because of the amount I have done it. Once again someone else missing the point. I never said I need as many credits as a PvE player. I said I need enough credits to at least buy something. Augmentation slots are the biggest issue now and have been. They are at a PvE price on the GTN and the vast majority of PvP'ers cannot afford that Price. If you guys can make 200k from an hour of Dailies, then why can't we have the same option in PvP?

I am far from a lazy PvP'er. I am exactly what the thread is labelled. Die-hard. I do nothing but PvP and do it for hours on end. I do sell items that become available from PvP comms. It does not cut it tho. "mony for missions" l o l Nice bumb

I will gladly repair my gear in after WZ's if we are given a slew of quests and more credits per WZ. Nice try.

Put yourself in our shoes. You want to to raids but aside from the raids lets say you must go PvP for money to Aug your gear. Let's not even go there because you know it would be an issue.

I PVP for hours on end. Much more work then questing or any PvE, to be honest. The amount of work and time I put into the game is not the issue. The fact that I have to PvE for PvP is what we are talking about here.

I do not ever have enough credits. Plain and simple. Right off the hop, I am not asking that every WZ gives 100k, mind you, I wouldn't complain if it did. I just need someone from PvP to allow us to make decent money. I choose not to PvE. I have played MMO's for over 12 years and not that I have chosen SW:TOR as my favorite PvP system I would love to see this issue addressed. I DO NOT WANT TO PVE. I have paid for this game and I should not have to. I am at at endgame once again and back in the gear grind. This time have the same issue that I have always had. I cannot even afford a single top tier augment after leveling to 55. Yes, in time I will be able to buy they from only doing PvP but not nearly fast enough. No one like a real long grind and it turns you off of games. The gear is a bad enough grind, which I don't really mind, but have to run WZ's for months and months, to afford 10 augments, is absolutely ridiculous. The amount of increase we need is not even just a little, it is substantial. Find a way Bioware. Find a way. I realize that a large amount of the credits from PvE comes from selling items. Implement something new. A system where PvP'ers get MATS and items while PvP'ing. I really don't know the best suggestion, I just know that it doesn't work the way it is. Hopefully this post will bring viable ideas to the table. If a raider decides to go do PvP it is because they choose to, for fun. Why am I forced to do a part of the game that I do not see as fun? I will take any criticism (and free bumps) that are given because I have played these games long enough not to care. Post, comment, bump, troll, whatever you see fit just keep this alive and let's hope someone that matters sees it. I won't even touch the issue of experience in PvP compared to PvE. Just MORE credits for PvP, somehow, PLEASE! BW, stop hatin' I don't want to PvE nor should I ever have to. Plain and simple. EDIT: Let's keep this post alive where it has been an issue for a very very long time. Refrain from the million bolster threads because as much as bolster is messed up currently, it is a new issue and it will get fixed. We need BW to see this and at least give us their thoughts. EDIT 2: The common reply from the PvE players seems to be that we should just use the GTN or go do dailies. Here is the thing. I am not posting complaining that there is absolutely no way to make credits. I am complaining that PvP players have no way to make any amount of credits thru PvP activity, where as the PvE players do. Yes, I choose not to craft all the time or use the GTN as much as I could BUT my issue is that a PvE player can get by without doing this at all. Dailies provide a huge amount of credits for the time it takes to do them. Why don't we have the same option? And yes, I DO the dailies when I really have to but I absolutely despise the mindless PvE content, aside from the fact I am being forced to do it. EDIT 3: Before people post about how to make credits one of the obvious ways that we already know, refer to the OP. This isn't saying there is no way to make credits at all. It is saying there is not sufficient credits from doing PvP. No matter what anyone comes on here are says about crafting, dailies, GTN or anything else, this still remains ture and IS an issue, whether you would like it to be or not. I may be starting to sound like a broken record with the edits but the new posts are all of the same irrelevant fashion as well.

To be honest, I could care less if macros are implemented in game. The only reason i make this post is due to respect for the thread creator, Bald. He has reposted with a non bias and extremely imformative post. He has been polite and has presented himself properly. So I will be the one to come out and say that everyone who is opposing what he has to say in this thread is a COMPLETE DOUCHE. You are entitled to your opinion but make it worth reading. Educate yourself. Macros won't hurt anything. If you think they will, give up your MMO career. They will come, regardless. And don't be so naive as to believe macros add or, for that matter, remove skill. PvE lacks the need for skill so who cares if you use one button for it. As far as PvP goes, if you macro all to one button, you are a terrible PvP'er. Excellent thread Bald. LESS QQ MORE PEW PEW