We have already established that it is the BEST WAY TO DATE to solve things, not the wrong way. Because, like I said several times before, if it was bad many other MMO's wouldn't be copying it with great success. The idea that a LFD system is inherently bad is factually wrong.

and I bet oyu think you some righteous rebel fighting for a just cause to keep the big bag LFD system out of the game. You're not on the losing side, you have already lost.

Well so far the list of wants on LFD is something like: -same server only at first, x server if needed -a restriction on only being able to roll need on things your character can equip Also I would like some sort of gear check for HM's. NOT a full blown gear score system like WoW. Just something to make sure a guy queuing for HM's isn't in all level 48 green stuff that gets progressively stricter for more difficult HM's. Maybe just base it on their main class stat similar to Rift.

OH I forgot my LFG report. so I logged on last night for about two hours. the ENTIRE time I was flagged in the imperial fleet and I immediately announced 'DPS LFG HM's' and every 5 minutes after that in general and in a player made 'global' channel. Only two bites I got were people asking what class I was and then turning me away when I said marauder since they already had sith warriors in their group. I attempted to make groups several times but I got AFK's, people who wanted the group to already have 3 people in it before I invited them, and people who were still flagged but it never automatically came off when they started running a HM. So basically people were still flagged LFG when they were in a full group, half way through a HM. Awesome LFG tagging system guis! On the plus side i got to stare at many of the vendors wares in imp fleet and cycle my companions to do missions. Wait thats not fun lol.

I was talking about DF's in general, not just WoW. Which is the context we would have to use since its the broadest and the outcome of what SWTOR's DF will be is also very broad.

I do love how you have decided to put the face of the WoW DF on this just so you could attack it. If you don't like the WoW DF go argue it there. We are talking about a DF that will be implemented in SWTOR which basically doesn;t even have a set form yet. Thank you.

then do so, nothing is stopping you. If you find that your friends stop playing it this way and opt for the DF then they never really found the current system ideal as you might like to think, it was simply one of the few options available to them. again you are suggesting that people be purposely held down so they are forced to play your way. This is evident by the fact you are worried they will no longer play your way once other options become available, so therefore you wish to not have these other options exist. lol no I don't. There is no amount of reasonable tools that could be put in to compensate for time. Even if everything was INSTANT, you log on and get everything, people could still beat you to the punch by being faster or having more free time.

So you're are assuming we want a 1:1 WoW DF, which would be a bad assumption to make. Explain to me how it's an advantage when EVERYONE can use it. Opposed to the current 'system' which can not be fully utilized by everyone because of various reasons. Right now people with much more free time have an advantage. At the very least a DF would start closing the gap, which is better than current situation. Some sort of loot discrimination on how a group is made would require another system that would need 'balance' by the developers. And like I said, people who managed to get static groups together would fly through content even faster than they do now while people who need to use a DF would only go from little to nothing to slightly more than they had. Thus, a bigger gap than there is now.

No. Loot drop rate discriminating against how groups are made would be bad and more than likely overturned later on. Not only that, people could just abuse this system. It would actually make it so people who have more time to spend on the game go even faster than they already do now through content creating an even larger gap between people with lots of free time and those that don't. Bad idea. If anything, people that can't guarantee static groups when they log on and would have to use a LFD should have some sort of loot drop bonus so they can have a chance in hell to keep up with the full timers. But then the full timers could just use the system too, loot drops are back on a even playing field and we are back where we were before, just now loot drops way faster for everyone.

Does it matter? Having to spend time twiddling thumbs to find a group for w/e reason is unacceptable. If someone wants a group they should be able to get one as fast as possible. Period.

Gonna just bump my own post here because I just love how concise this reply was to utterly crush anti-LFD arguments. In addition, LFD, both intra and cross, has grown outside of popular WoW to reach across other games only be be accepted by those communities as a great tool. The anti-LFD stance is the losing minority, and this CAN be quantified. EQ2, DCUO, Rift, WoW, all have LFD and NONE of them suffered major subscriber loss or community backlash because of it. In EQ2 the devs got raked over the coals because they weren't heavy handed enough with it, they made it very 'lite' and basic and it failed miserably and the players DEMANDED equipment checks, cross server, and better implementation of quick travel. (I speak of EQ2 the most because that is where I 'came from' even though I still play it.) Grouping tools have been through a crucible of over a decade of video game development across many developers. The useless and bloated methods have been burned away to show that the best method to date is a LFD/PvE queuing system.

We've already proven dozens of times this does not work on SWTOR for various technical reasons and various playstyles. We are asking for more options not less. If everyone opts to use a DF its because its BETTER. There is no denying this. Otherwise it wouldn't have made it as far as it did in the many games it has ended up in. Every argument against a dungeon finder falls flat to the fact they still exist and they are still being heavily used, and only getting more popular.

Well I do agree with not being able to roll need on things you can't use. It's one of those things that just makes me shake my head that its not an automatic release feature. If you cant use it you obviously don't need it, so anyone rolling need is a bit of an a-hole and should be prevented from doing it. If your group has agreed people can get stuff for alts/companions/misc then just tell them to pass. I'm all for people being able to choose intre or cross LFD. But unless LFD comes with cross server day one, if they are adding cross server its because intra-server is not working well.

lol really? so since no one has rolled on companion loot in my HM's and they have in yours, its common? Biased much? You can't possibly know what is going to happen with the LFD IN REGARDS TO EQUIPPABLE COMPANIONS since IT DOESN'T EXIST YET, ANYWHERE. that is of course like I said, games with LFD have gotten equippable NPC's or SWTOR already has a LFD I don't know about.

intra-server LFD is coming. The devs have confirmed it. And the way server populations are going its only a matter of time before x-server comes. that or merges and free transfers.

I really do love how people call fast travel easy mode, as if travel is a challenge to begin with.

Well it seems at the very least people want a server only LFD system, indicated by the many pages of this thread. I can only hope this will expedite the addition of such a system. I say they got about 2 weeks before people really start jumping ship.

So its not about satisfaction but it's about satisfaction of getting gear? So it IS about satisfaction. Ease of access can also provide satisfaction. In ANY grouping system I never got satisfaction PURELY because I was doing things with strangers. Ever. So we agree progress (or getting gear) is satisfying. LFD provides progress quicker and it's more accessible, therefore proving itself a better delivery system of that satisfaction. Since LFD provides that satisfaction better, LFD itself is more satisfying.

Those alternatives aren't based upon what others choose, either. Bad comparison. It's coming back to 'I like to play same server so force everyone else to do it too.' No different than saying I like playing a tank so restrict other people from making tanks so I am in more demand. People don't opt to use LFD because it's LESS satisfying for them than putting together groups. People using it much more than any other method, thus making the other methods obsolete wouldn't be possible if it weren't inherently better. If x-server was so bad it would have failed and people would have went back to putting their own groups together. The very fact that cross server has continued to exist is a testament to how much better it is. You CAN NOT force people into your preferred style of play. They will either demand it be changed or leave outright. Aion tried to entice PvE players with their first 20 levels and started easing them into a style that was PvP heavy. This did not work well, instead of conforming they just left.

lol I love people acting like ninja'ing for companion loot in HM's is already fact when nothing like that has happened here and wasn't even possible to do in other MMO's. That is unless WoW or Rift has released equippable mercs or some such that I'm not aware of.

I doubt we will see much 'ninja'ing for companions since they are more or less useless in HM's an Ops. Although I don't deny for a second that would happen in lower levels where companion use is VERY high for leveling up.

If it takes them a year to implement x-server or same server this game will be in serious trouble by then. The successes and even mistakes of LFD have already been done and are out there to see. EQ2 tried to implement some 'lite' version of LFD and it failed MISERABLY. No gear check except for 3 dungeons, the only incentive was a slight exp boost, the code they used to pick classes to form groups was abysmal, and it was same server.

Well I say if they do x-server make it optional and let people make their own conclusions. If people can be satisfied with same server, awesome. If people like doing x-server for w/e reason, that's cool too.

I have no problem with it being OPTIONAL. My problem is with people who think x-server is some how inherently worse than same server which it simply isn't to argue against the x-server possibility.

There is no 'same server policing themselves.' I've seen people openly ridiculed in global/level chat channels for hours on several different days and they still manage to put together PUG's and PUR's in other MMO's. I've yet to see a valid hypothesis let alone proof that x-server instantly makes people play like jerks outside of flimsy personal testimony. "This one time..." yes you are right, ONE TIME. If people were so inconsiderate that the x-LFD tool was nearly made unusable you might have a point but that has not happened. Fact of the matter is by your own admission even after these bad experiences YOU KEPT USING IT. Without even knowing it you have PROVEN that the benefits of x-LFD outweigh the negatives. (i'm not talking to any one person in particular) I've already explained how a bad experience will stand out in peoples minds while they can't recall the several perfectly amiable or neutral runs that came after it. A small percentage of bad x-LFD experiences does not a strong case against x-LFD make.