The discussion over whether resolve is working or not is a distraction and a waste of time. Whether or not you believe it is actually working is also a pointless discussion over the literal because the real argument is over whether resolve is meaningful in this game and the answer to that usually comes down to whether you enjoy all of the CC in this game or you don't. My take: Outside of ball running tactics in HB and maybe cap timing in VS Resolve is almost a meaningless, throw away side mechanic for the following reasons: Time to Kill in game at the moment. The vast amount of CC at the disposal of multiple classes. The CC that doesn't affect resolve. Talents that supersede, override or ignore resolve. Huttball is a CC showcase If you enjoy the amount of CC in this game and like playing the mini-game of what/why/when on Resolve triggers you are going to learn that yes, it does work as advertised and you are cool with the system because all of the CC probably doesn't bother you in the first place or you actually like a lot CC in PvP. Consequently we get threads like this where people jump up to point out like a legal technicality that resolve actually "works" as advertised. Which should be translated to: "I enjoy a lot of CC in PvP." On the other hand if you say that you actually don't enjoy all of the CC in SWTOR, you should probably take the time to recognize that any ************ about resolve is most often a ***** about the state of CC in the game in general.

Whether intentional or not, the change was highly needed in my opinion and I even made a post about it being needed well before 1.2. Stealth is supposed to be one of our classes strengths but it doesn't really work out well at all in practice for the healing tree. The supposed value is that in a focused/oh **** situation you could stealth away, but 6 times out of 10 you wouldn't be able to clear dots damage or random aoe that would pop you out during the getaway (which still occurs now). Worse than that you were basically just taking yourself out of the fight for the next ten seconds. In my opinion it was rarely a better option than to just go down healing, die then re-spawn. Compared with a sorc knockback or sprint away that allows them to create distance and still heal, it was not at all equal. Now we can actually try and slip away (still iffy), displace and try and contribute to the fight. It should have been this way all along, and hopefully BW makes it a permanent fix, particularly since DPS now appears to be heavily weighted versus healing.

Not sure if its server specific but my experience has been that the decent-good sorc healers are still routinely outperforming operative healers in terms of raw output or pure numbers post-patch. The front-loaded heal in the form of the bubble combined with the broader aoe healing from the sorc has always been the key to that and from what I am seeing it hasn't really changed. If you are just looking for scoreboard then sorc heals is still the easier path. As for burst, one of the key complaints of non-sorc healers in the past has been that we lacked clear burst/focus healing advantages compared to sorc heals while also being less effective in the aoe department. BW needs to find a path in this regard and stick with it . You should know going into a game whether or not the class you are playing is going to be more effective in the aoe area or focused-burst healing and not be bent out of shape if it can't do both well. The playability/mechanics issue also needs to be kept in perspective. Energy management pain and general healing flow clunkiness was something that was an exclusive affliction of operative healing for the first 4 months of this game. Going from operative healing to sorc healing was like going from coach to first class. I think Mercs had it easier than all classes in that regard, but they got hit pretty hard accordingly. I haven't played my sorc since 1.2 to see how significant it really is, but if you only healed on a sorceror in end game content prior to 1.2 and never ran as an operative, than yeah I can see how it might really feel bad. If BW went overboard than that will come out in the wash eventually, but consider that BW has been dealing with a perception issue that there was not much point in healing on anything other than a sorc prior to 1.2.

Thanks to all replies and to reiterate I am not trying to pile on the Merc here at all, nor the Sorc, I am just after clarification on what Op/Scoundrel healing is supposed to bring to the table when it really seems like Merc healing is at least equal if not better healing on single targets? I do well enough, and from server player comments if there is anything that distinguishes what I do (Op does) versus other healers its that I am "hard to kill". Yet I have a hard time not seeing that as true of any decent healer regardless of class. I think we probably have one advantage in Surgical Probe spam procs when we or the healing target are under 30% health, which is totally situational and tenuous to hang your hat on, but its something, Still I don't understand why there aren't more merc healers on my server given the output that I saw, which was admittedly a simple comparison, but still seemed like a significant upgrade over Op capabilities.

The bubble mention was only to state that in terms of available healing on target that bubble instantly counts as immediate, front-loaded healing and should be factored into what can get dumped on a target if need be. For operatives we get no bubble so our hots are as close as we get to an oh-**** preventive mechanic, and that's really stretching it.

Fair enough, and thanks for the link. I guess what I probably should have emphasized was the flow of big healing numbers was seemingly continuous with little noticeable in terms of actual casting breaks (he's a good player, but still). The effect was something along the lines of what it feels like to get hotted yet you have this flow of larger heals within.

Based on my experiences with testing with a merc in pure healing output discussed here I still don't see the IA healing line (even with the AOE buff and the energy nerfs to the other lines in 1.2) rising out of the bottom slot. Also, as far as the niche roles in raids go, it seems like you would just be just as good having a merc/trooper on the tank as the operative. Not trying to just beat up on my own class because we can be played well and effectively, but assuming equal level of player skill you would still want one of the other two classes in any of those roles based on shear class mechanic potential.

A merc guildmate of mine switched to heals from damage recently just on a lark and he had been saying in vent that he thought something was odd about his healing. Between WZs in the fleet we compared healing output by just running through our rotations, cross-healing each other. It started off as a comparison of energy burn rates, but what I saw in raw healing number comparisons just floored me. I have no familiarity at all with Merc healing or any of their spell terminology and I only asked him when he was casting different abilities, but what I experienced from his healing was 1) a bubble and then 2) several dot-like ticks (3-4?) that ranged from 2k to 5k to 600 to 2k (usually a combined total of over 7k) and those casts appeared to come very fast on top of each other and then seemed to recycle and begin again immediately with very little downtime. Now as an Operative healer (Full BM - 75) the things that really struck me about this were: 1) the big heal number frequency from the Merc - several 5k+ ticks followed by lesser 2k ticks but in very short order and seemingly off a single cast. 2) How that healing seemed to flow continuously on me as a single target with little in the way of cast time that was observable. Basically my experience was that in the time it took me to wind-up cast (@1.5 sec) Kolto-Injection (our "big" heal), and hope that I got a good 5k crit and then my instant cast surgical probe and hope for the same thing ... he would have a stream of healing ticks or at least instant casts rolling on me that would clear over 7k very fast and then restart again with little in the way of pauses or breaks.... meanwhile I'm winding up, clunking it out and getting crit heals with less consistency or at least with less frequency ....and here's the kicker.. he was in Centurion gear . This all started because when he switched to healing he was really blown away about how little he had to deal with heat issues compared to his damage spec and he wanted to show how much he could heal before running out of power. So what we started out comparing was how fast it would take us to run out of power if we were just going full out and not trying to conserve energy. The end result - I blew through 4 stacks of probes (cycled) and several KIs +SP and even an RN just to max out what I could stack on a single target all at once and I estimate I probably hit somewhere around 17-18k before diminished energy and no other cast power available (no adrenaline probe was used because again the point was to swing for the fences in a single series until power stopped you).. My merc friend? He finally burned out somewhere around 30k-32k combined heals, and also bear in mind that he reached my 18k stop mark much faster than I did. So I know that there is nerfage supposedly on the way for merc healing and this is not a call/complaint for nerfs/buffs as much as its a genuine query about 1) what the healing niche of an Operative is supposed to be when another class apparently provides: Bigger heals (at least with more speed/frequency) A more continous stream of good steady heals (KP doesn't match up) Has a much higher energy ceiling Has almost equal mobility (Ops main heal is a stop cast 1.5sec) Has better endurance I ask this especially because on the other side of the fence Sorcs have locked down the AoE and "oh ****" (bubble) role and also have an easier energy management system. The other big mystery here is that there are actually very few merc healers on my server. I have been playing since launch and can only think of one or two that I have seen with any frequency. I guess this is also why I have never really noticed the healing numbers that the mercs can throw out..I really don't know why there isn't an equal number to sorc healers based on this test at least. Anyway just looking for feedback on these observations. I've been playing Op healing since launch and I know all about the long list of issues and weaknesses, and even where we have some small advantages, but this limited test brought it all forward in much more stark way. Typically if another class has advantages in one area you get to say "well we can perform this other role/function better", but I'm just not finding "better" angles for Op healing at all in this stage of the game and it's concerning. Based on what I saw in this test I just feel like I could trade-in the Op for equal level/geared Merc and average 150k-300k more in combined healing output simply do to mechanics and synergy, and not miss a single thing about the Op healer much at all.

I pvp mostly, and because I am on a fairly active pvp server that means as an Imperial I get Huttball pops at least 95% of the time. Unfortunately I either have to play a lot of Huttball or have a lot of downtime waiting on another type of WZ. Now I know that there have always been complaints on the PvP boards and here about how Ops struggle on that map due to mobility challenges and that force users shine for the same reason, but I have always taken this with a grain of salt. Now with the recent announcements of ranked war zones in 1.2 I have started to notice more and more of what I would call "custom" premades in Huttball; basically some combination of 2 sorcs 2 assassins or 3 sorcs 1 juggernaut... basically an Inquisitor heavy mix of some kind with a jugg/mara thrown in. Of course the sorc-balance has always been a complaint surrounding Huttball, but that complaint has usually been dampened by rookie sorc competency or better coordination on the other side. Recently though what I typically run across in warzone after warzone are very coordinated and deliberate teams of these classes taking full advantage of these force-using class perks on the Hutball map and they are only queuing for Hutball. It usually breaks down to assassins camping the middle in stealth (something the op could do, but why not bring an assassin that can run the ball like a champ as well?) and a Jugg or sorc running the ball with another sorc to coordinate leap/pull as many times as necessary. So now I can imagine people saying "how's that different than your usual premade?" The difference is that these are players all of a strict class type (sorc-assassin-jugg-mara) and I see them (recently) in Hutball over and over and I rarely if ever see them in in alderaan maps or voidstar together. Call it "pro" Huttball teams if you want, but there are much more of them in the last few weeks and the entire trend seems to be pre-positioning for rated Hutball. This wouldn't be as much of a concern if Huttball wasn't the most common map on my server, but it is, easily 15 wzs out of 20. For me all of this begs the question of what will be the outcome with rated Hutball games when not playing a force-centric mobility class? Previously people could argue that "coordination" might overcome these types of hindrances, but when you have a very coordinated group of high mobility classes versus a very coordinated mixed-group of classes guess who has the advantage? From my point of view BW is walking into a very shaky patch of ground where it will become obvious that to succeed consistently in rated Hutball warzones (which again pop for me 95% of the time) you will need to have a force-centered class balance in order to not be at a disadvantage against other coordinated teams of force-centered classes. All of that said I would be happy to hear of a scenario in Hutball in which a team of non-force centric classes, or for that matter a team of mixed classes, assuming equal levels of coordination and skill, could succeed against a team of predominantly if not totally force using classes. As things are headed now it seems like rated Hutball warzones are going to become a class check first and foremost and more than one operative will be at best a liability.

I still want to believe that BW is genuinely trying to balance all classes in an even handed manner but I am really starting to believe that the dev team might be suffering from some sort of selection bias brought on by either pure business goals or an unspoken belief that all players should have a force using class of some kind, mostly as their primary and that non-force using classes are in the game mostly as alt/exploratory classes. That way if a non-force using class seems to get the raw end of the stick again and again or is simply harder to play effectively, well that's okay because everybody should have a force using class to fall back on. There are some other observations that are causing me to think this as well: Its pretty easy to level up in this game (relative to my experience elsewhere) and it wouldn't surprise me at all if BW factored this into their design strategy regarding classes... gently nudging people not to have a "main" character, or if they do to make sure that its probably a force user. The easier leveling gives the devs or at least the larger community a soft-out of sorts to say "don't like the operative? why don't you just roll an assassin for awhile? its not hard to get there." On the other hand if you to tend to stick with one class like me and only roll alts midway due to burn out its very hard to not see some double standard ugliness and wonder if the devs simply can't or won't own up to the game model that they have actually created...a force user centered game with playable, side-bar, alternative classes, that while not always weaker will not be the focus of consideration either. For example somebody in this thread brought up the 1.2 sorc healing changes and actually used the term "nerf" to describe them, offering them up as some sort of counter example of why the grass isn't necessarily greener or some such argument. Yet from a healing Operative perspective that "nerf" 1) causes Sorcs to now have to deal with the same energy management disadvantages that we have had to (since launch) and 2) fixes a bug that allowed Sorcs to have a double heal cast (for at least a month and half). By comparison and to add insult to injury the Op healing tree had a skill at the top of the tree that didn't work (since launch), that reduced our healing output and it wasn't fixed until the tail end of last month. I'm just curious if any force using classes have had skills that have been truly broken or put them at a distinct performance disadvantage compared to a non-force using class and if so how quickly that got fixed? I'm not trying to beat up on people playing other classes or other classes in general, or even suggest that the Operative isn't an enjoyable class to play (as it is now). I just think that there is a general dynamic at work in this game when it comes to class balance and class focus that is to some degree dishonest or at least a little delusional about the stated goals versus how things are actually developing. I think it would help the player base a lot more if BW acknowledged that.

All you need to do is look at Rift pvp to get a taste of what a gear based pvp system will get you in the long run.... you get greater and greater performance disparities based on gear and then you get an imbalance and then the developers have to introduce tiers to rebalance the experience... which ironically still pisses off the gear whores who then threaten to quit. Its a broken and tired model, so enough already. TOR started down this path but frankly they screwed the pooch with Ilum and the valor farm. Once that horse was out of the barn and the overpopulated faction also became the most well geared it really undermined the model altogether. So I think its good that it looks like they are changing paths now. They really should have been brave enough to ****-can the hamster wheel gear chase from the get go. Do something new and interesting for a change. The WoW/Rift model has been played out. Mimicking it is just going to get you diminished returns in player interest. The real sad part is that this game really should have been about making the faction system meaningful and basing the pvp around the actual game world. Without actual world pvp achievement and goals that are worth something you're basically left with stuff like epeen measuring contests over gear and titles. In a flagship Star Wars title that's really pathetic. They basically have to do something unique with their PvP model now or just write it off.

It really seems like the people complaining about the loss of "gear progression" are really talking about one specific thing: stat advantages. So why not just say: "In this game I want and expect to have stat advantages over other players due to the amount of time I spent playing it?" Hiding behind the word "gear" suggests that somehow its really the gear itself that is meaningful when in fact its about being able to feel more powerful or more "skilled" than other players because of your stat advantages. I would also think that people who are motivated by this "character/gear" progression sense of achievement would be okay with removing the level caps and bolster function from war zones. After all, if you spent the time to level faster than another player why shouldn't you be granted all of the advantages of your earned rank versus other players? Everyone can get to 50 after all, some people are just faster at it, why hand out bolster buffs at all? Its just the gear argument on a larger scale.

I think this is what they thought they might be achieving by simply tacking a healing tree onto a stealth class but it seems like they didn't spend any time at all thinking through how that might actually work in reality. The fact is that it doesn't. Yes, the operative can heal decently in this game but there is almost no part of that healing at all that benefits from our stealth core mechanic. For the healing tree I would argue that stealth is actually more of handicap than a help... unless it was actually designed to work with the healing.

Its not even close to being a top of the skill tree talent. Even with the gear bonus and the recent skill fixes to RN its still only useful as spam supplemental healing that you cast without any real expectation. In my opinion it shouldn't even be on the talent tree. It feels more like it should be a skill that we get automatically ala orbital strike towards level 50. It also suffers from being on a CD that suggests that is supposed to be a frequent use ability, which is good, but it bites you in the *** because of the power cost. It really seems like they took a basic AOE heal spell that we probably should get automatically as part of our core abilities and tacked it on to the top of the talent tree because they couldn't come up with a real ability. I have it specced and use it as supplemental healing because I find probe management a pain and it does provide a little cover as a hot, but it just boggles my mind that its where it is on the tree. To save face Bioware just needs to cut the power cost of RN by at least 1/3rd if not a half and just let us spam it. The fact that even after doing that it won't make much of an impact is testament to how weak the skill already is.

Yeah taking it out altogether would be just as good. In fact I think it would go a little ways to giving the Op class some unique healing play style advantages versus the sorc/sage. After all if Bioware is going to claim that stealth is our major advantage even as healers then they should damn well figure out a way we could actually use it. Most of the time as a medic I rarely use stealth as I am almost always in combat or I am rushing to aid my dps who are force leaping all over the map and stealth just slows me down. There have been many times where I have looked at my toolbar and noticed that stealth was up and I didn't really care because I was so used to being in combat or I was trying to remain mobile enough to do my job. If stealth is going to be useful to the medic in pvp at all then it needs to be something that they can 1) actually use in the middle of a fight without a penalty and 2) is available frequently enough that we don't simply give up on relying on it.