UncelSam
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Posts posted by UncelSam
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Erm.. Why all the QQ? If you don't want to fight premades, go solo ranked. At least you can be sure there won't be any premades! WHO WOULD HAVE BELIEVED THAT!
(queue sync doesn't count, and also it is not a sure way to be "premade" in yolo queue)If you insist that premades should be fine in Group Ranked, even if they are casuals, then I insist that lone wolfs can deal with it and play solo ranked, casual or not.
Who cares anyway?
Premades have thier own WZ already - its called Ranked. Go there and face other premades, leave PUGs regular WZ alone plz.
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looking forward for this crap game to shutdown already. what a fail this was.
Note to myself - Put BW on the NONO list of games along with the devs names
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This is the biggest thread ever created on any MMO forums. It will go to Guniess Book of record as the biggest post ever. At the same time BW and SWTOR will get the bad publicity for not listening to thier players. Very good job!
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Arenas are fun but limited and really show the state of class balance (mara,pt,op), right now on the bastion there are even less teams (3) queing for 4v4 arenas then there were for ranked 8v8 (5-13). We used to have a huge amount of competitive guilds and a lively community before the removal killed a lot of guilds. Similar things are happening on other servers as well.
Problems with 8v8s are now fixed like inter-wz respec and better class balance. The option to que people for 8v8 warzones needs to come back, this is the exact same thing as warzones, but with a full team that knows what they are doing NOT random players. Competition is dying out even with the leader boards. People even paid for transfers just to do competitive ranked, just to be tricked into its removal the next day.
Please bring back the very thing that built the competitive community on PVP servers.
I agree!!
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Please, lay off the patronizing attitude. PuGs don't by default occupy some higher moral ground that you can give arguments like "The fault isn't yours' guys" or something. And my analogy had nothing to do with PuGs at all. It was entirely about your comment that all premades belong in Ranked 4v4 and 8v8. Clearly a wrong comment.
Matchmaking? HELL YES. Everyone on the premade and on the PuG side is completely in support of this.
That and better incentives to do Ranked too. Vanity items, removal of conversion of comms to Ranked comms, and other stuff so the good premades will want to go there to fight.
But banning premades from regular wzs? No, still against that. Always was, and always will be.
Then u make a "regular" WZ for premades only. Solved . End of story.
cant have the huuuuge unbalance that there is right now. the game will die since there will only be premades left ingame lol
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You can queue up in any gear that isn't older than war hero or higher rated PvE gear than 61s and have max expertise in a warzone. If you augment what you're wearing (with credits, no PvP required), you are talking about maybe a 5% difference from max gear.
IM saying no pvp gear. Read the lines man! Or do I have to help you?
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I have watched more people then I could count quit this game because of the pvp system. As a founder since day one I have seen hundreds. Some talk of changing servers. Not sure how that is working out. Cross server might fix it. All I know is que times are not good. Matches are dominated by premade teams that que together for regular warzones. At the same time you can not get a ranked que to save your life. Space is fun for some of us that got in early and upgraded a ship. Space is not fun for those in new ships or not running in a premade. Premade space combat is almost impossible to counter as there is no communication between people on a pug team. This month alone I have watched two of my long time friends unsubscribe and most people I know are just hanging on, waiting for EOS to start up. Or for SWTOR to do something that makes since.
I am not bashing SWTOR here. I am just telling it like it is. I like the game and I hope it can find away to climb out of this hole.
Hear Hear!
A founder has spoken. I agree and as a founder myself I have seen the same things occur. When i study the amount of players ingame right now i realize this game is about to hit rock bottom.
I am also waiting for ESO to come out and then ill prolly quit this mess of a MMO
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1) Grouping has no advantage if you don't know how to use your skills or play the game. In Counter Strike GO there is random 5 players picked up vs. some team a lot, I won a lot agains teams because they couldnt play the game at all. Same applies to this game and any other game. Unless its open world PvP where you just zerg an enemy 40 to 10 or somethin.
2) same applies to voice comms - if you dont read chat, your issue. People can type just "R 2" like right 2, or "G 2" grass 2, many people understand that. And, I as scoundrel get attacked by two people at pylon or turret - I press defensive skill, call for help in chat (yes I can type with all fingers so I can type longer msg, but p2 which meas pylon 2 enemies would be enough) and after that I use pvp med pac, I'm usualy almost full and can defend a bit against 2 ppl. Sure if they are 3+ I die even than, but hey theirs good play we failed, game continues.
3) I've seen many teams with heals or tanks lose against just dps teams, they just know how to play, how to cc, who to focus etc.
4) best PUGs have no leader, they can communicate and play as one man - as a team. What makes them good even with low chatting? Knowledge of the game and skill. They know what to do, therefore they dont have to talk crap. People who dont know what to do dont even listen to better players because they are let to believe (today in many ways) that they are special.
5) Really?
6) Stop this gear only matters crap and learn how to play, would you? We met a crazy marauder on Oricon who killed 4 of us, yes we didnt have full PvP gear and he did but we had tank and healer. Guess what, he just knew how to play the freakin game.
7) I tried ranked only once on my full conquer commando. You know why? Because I dont have augments and I was told to get out and get better gear. So ranked is for those who have full equip for PvP. Otherwise you are going to get stomped. Gear in PvP matters only if you have it full with more people.
Just stop whining. That guy made great points, if you dont like it group with people who you like. I have to say I'm stupid enough that I dont do that always.
But sometimes I got few people from good WZ together, or someone did and we had a nice wz run. I cap pylons etc. a lot under 1 guy defending cause he is not watching - doesnt know the game that well.Real problem is people whine about nothing. Its player vs player, not "you always win against lame player". How do you think I learned PvP in any game? By many, I say MANY deaths, thats the only way. You learn from your mistake. Not many people can do it these days. PvE is easy just rotate your skills, in PvP you must adjust strategy every second. Its much more complex than PvE "go by the book". PvP is not for everyone its for people who can survive defeat.
Tho I get frustrated a lot by stupidity when people don't follow objectives tell others they are noobs and rage quit a game. And guess what, I love premade "bullies" as you call them. They are challenge, not just farming points for dailies as fast as I can. And PvP is about challenge, not about nice and easy going. The sooner you accept it the better.
P.S. You noticed what I mainly said? "Its about your knowledge of the game" - key to being a winner. No premade, even of 8 people cant beat an enemy who knows the game better.
LOL!! U compare this game with CS -big mistake. CS is a FPS and is purly skillbased game. This is an MMORPG and is purly gearbased. Your story about that mara is prolly pure bullcrap with you try to backup your story with LOL!! nice try.
TOR gearsbased stuff gives 40-50% bouns BOTH Def AND Offensive. How u mean u can compete with "skills" to that? There is no way to do that, its just maths that your attacks AND def values are so much lower then the fullt geared guy, you simply cant win even with all skills in the World. (If you dont have any pvp gear and the other guys has full gear).
You just full of bad arguments and bullcrap stories, LOL!
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You're just assuming the worst for every situation though.
the guy with no arguments at all. hehe ok. nice input.
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Here are the major issues I see people complain about with groups and why I feel they are completely bogus.
1) Having a premade gives you an advantge.
General, yes, but many people think that just grouping with people gives you an advantage. Obviously this is not true or any 4 people could get together and win.
2) VoIP is why groups have an advantage.
This is probably the only somewhat valid reason I have seen. If they choose to call targets, utilize voice communication to chain CC, etc. then groups do get a slight advantage over equally skilled players. The wrench in the system as it were is that teams are not made up of 4 people. Warzones require 8 people per side, so there are either 4 people left completely in the dark (what you normally see) or the premade must communicate through chat as well giving them a far less significant advantage. So long as no more than half the team is grouped, I don't see this as a game-breaking advantage.
Let's also add in that groups in regs using VoIP are generally not coordinating like it's ranked. Sure, they might say what they would have otherwise typed, but it's predominately whatever they feel like talking about with friends.
3) Ideal composition gives premades an advantage.
This is a tricky situation and one where grouping is actually a solution not a problem. Role queueing with the limited number of players isn't viable, but players also prefer to have healers on both teams, tanks on both teams, or the opposite. If you hate queuing into warzones without a healer, why wouldn't you find a healer to queue with you? It seems perfectly logical to everyone else that grouping actually allows you to help create a better game experience for yourself. Do you always complain about your teammates tunneling dps and not playing objectives? Group with the people you see paying objectively.
Taking away ideal composition choice doesn't eliminate imbalanced comps between teams, it just forces the RNG element on everyone. There will always be games with 4 healers to 0 and 5 tanks to 0 because players are chosen at random. If you don't like the imbalance, use the grouping tool to remove some of that RNG element.
4) Coordination is impossible with PUGs
This is a very invalid statement. If you can't get your PUG organized than you either have poor players on your team or you are not making an effort to get your team organized. The number of games I play with nothing typed in chat aside from a possible inc call here and there is astounding.
Now, your team may not listen to you or may not be skilled enough to implement the strategy you are putting in place, but that is a part of queueing solo. You are telling BW to find you 7 people to play with and getting upset when they aren't the people you wanted. It's the same as group finder, if you can't deal with undergeared players with no prior knowledge of the Flashpoint and who don't want to spacebar because they've never seen the story, then don't queue group finder because that's what you might get. If you want your team to coordinate with you, play up to your skill level, and play the way you would play, then I would highly suggest creating your own group rather than complaining that your team is full of noobs and baddies and quitting the warzone.
5) Premades are just out to bully PUGs
It happens, yes. There are groups who break the system by syncing 2 groups to queue at the same time and have 8 on their team and I'm strongly opposed to anyone doing this. There are teams who will talk trash in /say or general the whole match while they have you three capped when it was clear they had the better team or superqueued. But the majority of the time, groups will take their win and move in.
3-capping is a two edged sword. It will end the game quicker, but also prevents the other team from securing at least some medals. There is really no reason 8 people shouldn't be able to get a node from 6 in any match. I really don't see getting shutout in VS or Huttball as a big deal, happens all the time.
6) Premades have no skill, they just hide behind better players
I don't know about you, but I wouldn't allow 1-3 other people to play with me just so I could carry them on my back through warzones. I generally group with people that I enjoy playing with regardless of skill. I don't personally run in groups very often, but when I do, it isn't to crush warzones, it's just to play with enjoyable people. Unlike everyone complaining about premades though, I don't complain when my team has no healers or quit because we lost VS door right away or gave up an early goal. When you stop complaining about things that are random when you could control them through grouping, you can start suggesting groups be removed from your queue. Until then, take the solution that has been put before you because groups or not, you will still not have healers on your team when you're opponent has 3 quite frequently.
7) There are probably more out there.
I'm sure everyone has their own personal reason for disliking premades, but you need to identify the real reason behind your complaint. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are grouped since not all premades are the same. Some are good, some are bad. Some have 4 DPS, some have a tank and healer. Some are calling out targets, some are talking about weekend plans (they're playing SWTOR all weekend, duh!).
If you say groups are bad, then you are missing out on the positive reasons for them that I mentioned throughout this post. It also lets you get a little time to enjoy a game you love with people who are similar to you and that is the goal of an MMO afterall.
My comments on your post:
1) Yes premades are a HUGE advantage. Grouping in general (random players) has no advantage.
2) Voice comm has also a HUGE advantage sicne u can call for help while fighting, in PUG teams u have to stop fighting, to type a messgae that most ppl will miss anyway, and then continue fighting half dead.
3) Theres nothing tricky with that good composition gives HUGE advantages. PUG team has often none medic, while premades can have 2 or 3 good ones. They are alos guarded by a few tanks, while rest are DPS. In SWTOR the heals are just enormous and u can litterally heal a guy from 1% Health to 100% in 1-2 sec if your good healers or its a scorc himself. The heals are the very major key to success in SWTOR since they are so HUGE and haveing healers nor not is just a gamebreaker.
PUG teams has toatlly random composition and no setup in roles prior to combat. Premades has setup roles and battlepositions Before combat u can see how they form up in 3 rows with DPS, and tanks guadring the healers. Theres no such in PUG. Its a HUGE differance aswell.
4) Yes, it is almost impossible since most PUGs are casual players who just want to pvp a lil for a while. They most often dont listen to the "leader".
5) Yes premades like to bully and this is a good way for them to give in to that flaw in thier personality.
6) Most premades dont have that much pvping skills, they are used to have HUGE backup form their healers and tanks, so u dont need that much skills. Theres almost no skills at all needed in SWTOR btw since the "skills" are gearbased, and not at all based on the skills of the RL player. Anyone can push buttons in the right order over and over, its not hard. Those with some kind of skills are those healers that has to be real good at thier stuff.
7) Yes theres is more. Premades already have thier own WZ, its called "Ranked" and is not used much at all. Reasons for this is that most premades dont like to face challange or competition, and rather like to just stomp PUGs around.
But be reminded that there is alot of new players out there that grew tired real fast on this game and quitted due to your behavior. Many dont like being killed over and over and get slowed down and hampered in their character progress. They quit this game.
Left int eh game are mostly premade bullies right now, which means u have to start bully eachother soon. And the game is serverly bleeding players that wont come back. In the ned it will result in this gmae being shutdown. Ive seen it Before in Warhammer and SWG.
Devs dont listen to real probs like this and its up to us to save our game if we still like it?
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Hey everyone!
There's a lot of upset players going around complaining about having to face premades in warzones.
I sympathize. I'm sure it can be quite frustrating.
But fear not, there's a solution to your problem!
It's a grand solution that requires no resources from the Dev team that is already strapped down designing your next great PvE adventure!
The solution is actually pretty epic. I'm sure you'll be happy to know that you'll never have to stress about this issue ever again!
Heck, you might actually kick yourself when you realize you could have thought of it yourself!
Ready?
Make 3 friends, form a group, and que up!
Sometimes the answer is so simple it's just crazy...
YOU'RE WELCOME!
that wont solve the problem, since the premade teams has huuuge advantage with voice comm, powerhealers, hi ranking gear and prior experiance of co-op togeather.
Grouping 3 random friends would still be same as PUG since most new player lack the ubergear, voice comm, and powerhealers backing them up.
And some, me for instance, dont wanna be hooked to a Group of two reasons:
1) PUG stomping with my fully geared lvl 55 character is just plain boring and on top of that i hamper and slow down the progress of others grinding up thier toons in regular pvp WZs.
2) I dont have time to find a Group each time I want to pvp. And most times I have to leave the computer after one WZ since I have a big family that needs attendance, and therefor I cant be hooked to Group that would have to be awaiting for me all the time. I want pvp to be more easy to access, and whenI pvp with my other low lvl toons I dont want to be stomped by Premades 95% of the time.
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This is true. Trion tried it in Rift, and the river of tears from the premades was unbelievable. They ended up reverting the change.
then the whole instanced pvp form is a huge FAIL for BW.
They need open World pvp areas asap then!! Most other MMORPGs have open areas for pvp and thats maybe why those games still around, but TOR is failing?
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Why are the premades so afriad of getting some challange and go face other premades? Maybe since they arent that good pvpers after all? Or they like easy kills and PUG stomping?
Either reason is equal BAD.
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I regularly run in one kind of "pre-made." I have a group of two that consists of me and my sister. We don't spend as much time together as we did when we were younger. It's hard getting together and this MMO has been a great tool for us to have fun with each other.
The only other pre-made I've recently taken part in was a guild pre-made of four in the 10-29 queue. Me, my sister, a guardian and a shadow. We are all in the same guild. I played a Commando who did around 500-700K healing per match. My sister played a Vanguard who did around 300K DPS and around 250K protection per match. The guardian from our guild did less than 100K DPS per match and always had 0 (yes, zero) protection despite playing in Soresu form. The shadow was level 12 and he had been playing the game for less than a week when he joined us. We didn't care if he sucked. The message is that my sister and I are objectively holding our team down by making pre-mades filled with people who are just awful. While winning is nice, it's not as important as being sociable with guild members.
With that said, I can't disagree with the topic's message either. Yeah, I too have noticed pre-mades that have some success and then notice that when these people queue up in solo, they're useless. They don't know what to do without the ability to scream for heals on vent. They certainly don't know what to do when their team doesn't have a healer at all! I'm perfectly comfortable in the solo queue. While it's nice to have guard (bless you, sister), I can still break 500-700K healing in lowbie PVP even when I'm alone. On my 55 operative, I can break a million healing in the solo queue.
My point is that while most pre-mades seem to exist because so many people are rotten in the solo queue, there are some of us who use them because we realize that "group" play is supposed to be a social function. We do it because we want to play with our friends. Try not to condemn us all.
Feel free to play vs others like minded like you, and not stomp around in PUG regular WZs, since your playing is hampering and slowing down new players progress at the cost of your "fun". Go to RWZ and play there, so all players gets part of this great game.
Or else the game will die soon.
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Stop whining and go queue up with your friends that you claim to have.
PUG stomping is boring, read the whole thread Before you write something.
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As someone who predominantly premades, I agree they should be separated. I don't mind slightly longer queue times if it means more competitive games.
Back when there were ranked 8v8s I stopped queuing regs altogether. The only reason I even queue regs now is for the daily/weekly, and to actually play WZs (<3 huttball) instead of arenas. And the overwhelming majority of the time it is a lopsided stomp, unless we run into an opposing premade when things actually get fun.
Even WoW has kept premades/pugs separated in BGs for years now.
P.S. Bring back ranked 8v8 too please!
A true PvPer that shares his (her?) side of the story! This is what im talking about! Pvp has become boring endless PUG stomping even for the premades.
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Premades are not the ones who are ruining PvP. If anything playing against better team of players makes you learn stuff. If you want to PvP just for fun, there is open world PvP for that in my opinion. Warzones have objectives and a lot of people dont care about them, they are the ones who ruin the warzone. Let me give you couple examples:
People who rush at pylon, cap it for points and go away from it, later they say defending is boring - dont play warzones.
People who defend doors, say 5 left after they died so there is no chance of helping them. They say, well should I type and die or defend - well, if you type, we come and help, you might die but we win, if you defend against more enemies you die, we cant help, they win.
People who don't communicate at all shouldn't be playing warzones, they are teamplay. Have you ever seen football match won by a team which doesn't say anything? Where everyone plays for himself? Don't think so.
Imho there should be some PvP tutorial when you want to enter warzones, which would teach you the importance of communication with team, importance of defence etc.
P.S. But choice between 8v8 and 4v4 wzs would be nice. Those people who dont care about objectives would play 4v4, its just team deathmatch.
To "learn stuff" wont work since this game has gear-based skill system, rather than "real" pvp skills. All knows how to push buttons in what order but that wont help you if u lack the gear. Thats why your agrumnet is totally void.
PUGs need thier own enviroment to grow and gear up in. What they dont need is bullies to hemper and ruin that progress with meaingless stomping.
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My point must have went over your head. Yeah I wish more teams did ranked but forcing teams into a competitive queue (which is the point of ranked) is not the answer. Ranked requires actual talent, proper classes which offers synergy and of course the right players. With certain classes being more in demand than others and the fact that some teams will not queue unless they get the players they want (see group synergy) then they will simply queue regs until they can.
Also, putting a weekly/daily for arenas would go a long way I still can believe that they only count for regs.
Then they can q as solo regulars until that is fixed, but we cant have it like it is right now. Its totally unplayable for all PUG and NO FUN. Its killing the game
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The **** you doing playing an MMO then?
You can playt MMOs since you like to socialize with others, but still dont want to be part of a team. If your ina team your tiedup and cant leave the computer or RL matters as u plz. If you do that you have to leave the team and start over and find a new team when your back. I have alor of RL matter comming since I have a big family and a job where my phone is ringing with urgetnt matters. I cant be part of a team all the time, I still like to pvp casuallly
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No one is waking up to anything. It's just you bumping all these old threads all the time. This is a 7 month old thread...in fact you are on the front page bumping the thread 3 months after it was created quoting the OP then as well...Make some damn friends already...All this time you spend bumping these threads on the forums you could of spent looking for a team on your server to queue with.
I have enough friends thank you, dont need more. But I need balanced pvp! NOW!
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That how does one hinder another's progression in an MMO? If you hit level 55 and it's your first character you shouldn't be expecting to step right into max level and have an impact. Now if the fresh 55 has all his augments ready (you should) has collected all datacrons (you should) has maxed affection on all companions (you should) and has maxed out commendations (you should) and has checked out the forums here (yes they do provide good informations...and you should) then they would have a grasp on how bolster works and they would probably be stepping into PvP with decent stats and not at 24-25k hp (which I ran into several last night when I was solo queuing on my pyro merc).
My recurring theme here is player accountability and not blaming ones short comings on individuals who know how this game or MMO"s in generals work.
If u lose ALL WZs in regular as PUG due to getting stomped by premades (who dont need more medals or comms) your character progress is hampered and slowed down ALOT!
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The hype on the game would lead me to believe that before they had the beta weekends. Not after; though.
I know guys in my old guild were all excited for GW2 and how it would kill this game and even it took a month or so after it's launch to be off that bandwagon. Same guys (along with most everyone else I've heard from) were just as hyped for ESO and it just got squashed in one weekend
GW never had the new stuff that ESO is bringing. Huge megaservers and huuuuuuge pvp battles!!! GW is njust an other compy of old generation MMORPGs, nothing new.
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Wait aqnd see. TESO wont have huttball, stories or voice-acting as good
I can be without huttball, stories and voiceacting as long I get balanced pvp without premades.
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theres new SW-games comming too. After the new SW Movies hit the screen 2015 there will be new SW games based on that time era, and thats an other reason why TOR will be shutdown.
(queue sync doesn't count, and also it is not a sure way to be "premade" in yolo queue)
Premade vs. Pug problem is solved!
in PvP
Posted
This problem is for the devs to solve asap. They have to be able to create a good Q for both grouped and solo players for regular WZ.