The Ironfist build picks it up because it isn't leaning towards damage as much. It breaks 21 points in Shield and runs Ion Cell. These two factors basically eliminate the possibility of going into Assault. It also goes into Tactics largely to get Power Armor. The Shield tree is very difficult to go deep into for PvP due to the evasion mechanics. Picking up a 15 second DoT for interupts on caps is the primary benefit it brings to the build and that goes away in the next patch. It's still not a bad talent to get for the build as it's basically already there and won't get much benefit out of the other trees. Unless you put more points into Shield, you're probably going to want to stick with Incendiary Round and Ionic Accelerator.

It's very different from the Parakeet builds. Bird build is a tank / support build that is trying to add more damage. 18 points in Assault does that for that build. It doesn't do it for a 21 point Tactics build. Nor am I. I'm comparing hybrid tactics to everything else. Viable? Sure. Just because something is worse than the alternatives doesn't mean it isn't viable. ... The top tier of Tactics is FAR from subpar. Fire Pulse doesn't have "efficiency as its hallmark." Fire Pulse is an exceptional ability. It's tech and therefore better than ranged in numerous situations. It ignore armor. It automatically procs Battering Ram. It hits very hard with delayed damage allowing for some very legitimate burst. Pulse Generator is an exceptional niche ability. You also lose and excellent crit talent. Increased crit damage on Ion Cell with all the buffs it gets in the Tactics tree is exceptional. The problem with Hybrid Tactics is simply that deep Tactics does everthing it does better. So you're pressuring? Deep Tactics does this much better. I actually was unaware it worked this way. I'll have to test it. I thought effects and damage were done on activation as is pretty typical for most games. I didn't say to make it break a stun. ... You do realize you aren't really harassing anyone? Granted, Shield is not as melee intensive as Tactics, but you do need to make sure you are getting in Stock Strikes. Also, from another thread it looks like you're deep Shield. It's a really bad build for PvP due to how evasion and shielding are handled; tech and force completely ignore them. It makes for a lot of inefficiently used talent points. You'd probably benefit a good bit from using the Combat Tech set. Or if you really want Supercommando, replace the mods with DPS ones.

It's a legitimate kiting pick and the */2*/18 build is amazing for kiting. The problem really lies in that if you have the points in Tactics to get Hold the Line, you are really are a melee. Kiting in this build while very effective, doesn't do much damage while kiting. Assault does substantial damage while kiting. When kiting, Assault only loses a higher chance to proc a HIB reset and the increased damage of a Stock Strike over Ion Pulse while in melee range. You don't lose the interupt as any class you are going to kite isn't going to have anything to interupt. If you are pillar hump a caster, HtL is of marginal benefit as your going to be fighting at a range only Assault has the capability to do with any kind of legitimacy. That said, it's pretty effective in 1v1 situations vs. Shadows, Concealment Operatives, and Guardians. A really good Marauder is going to be able to very largely circumvent your kiting ability, especially a Combat equivilent spec. I think Assault is preferable against a good Marauder for kiting due to increased damage output.

I'll address this before explaining why your scenarios don't work (against competent people at least) because I think a lot of people are looking at it the same way you are which is in isolation. Hold the Line looks good on paper, but when you consider how the various specs are operating, it gets a greatly diminished value. If you are going an Assault build, Hold the Line's only value to you would be that it helps with kiting. Assault functions as a variable range build and with high versitility (being able to burst or pressure from 0-30m). Assault is NOT a melee build. Going deep Assault basically eliminates the need for Hold the Line as it's primary benefit is increase melee uptime. When you reach for Hold the Line, you give up significant burst and ranged effectiveness. You gain essentially nothing going from Assault to your hybrid build. You gain a marginal edge on ammo but lose damage, are forced into melee for talents, lose survivability (range is a huge boost to longevity), and lose Assaults very legitimate 30m attack range. You don't really gain in utility either. Assault has some very nice utility. Personally, even though you don't see it much, I love Reflexive Shield when I have a healer. It's awesome. However, I don't have Degauss which would synergize with it. I don't really need snare removal in Assault. This is the real beauty and strength of Assault that a lot of people do not play to. You engage targets based on their weak range not your strongest range (which is melee to be fair but 10m is only very slightly weaker; the 30m engagement range is primary for initiation, target swapping, and pressure). If you are going Shield spec, you have two primary routes- pure Combat Support (Ironfist) or support with increase pressure / damage (Caroline). Storm offers far superior mobility than does Hold the Line. They are different and have some advantages and disadvantages, but Storm as a complete package is superior. The root is far better for a support spec (if you are going Shield at all, you are primarily support). Storm functions as a legitimate gap closer. Strong talents selections all the way through Storm (this is a huge advantage). Vertical mobility is very nice for Civil War and Huttball (especially the latter). Hold the Line does let you swap between targets better and is not related to Resolve. Those are it's advantages vs. Storm. As a result, if you are going support, Hold the Line is an unjustifiable reach even though support builds are melee oriented. Uptime is also less important here as support's goal isn't as focused on damage. Additionally, the Carolina build does maintain some of Assault's 10m range power and is thus less impacted by the effects that Hold the Line protects against. A deep Tactics build (very viable although niche) actually does make good use out of Hold the Line. This is a pressure build. Pressure builds are great damage assist builds and no Trooper build puts on pressure like Tactics with HEC. It's a pure melee build. It doesn't operate effectively outside melee range. Hold the Line is excellent here for superior uptime. It could really use interupt protection to help with Pulse Generator, but it still works well. This build brings is the most ammo friendly spec by a long shot. Additionally, by going 31 points for Fire Pulse, you pick up some non-trivial burst. You get increased crit damage and a very nice ability with delayed damage for 1 ammo. The */2*/18 build gives up a tremendous amount to get HIB resets that it has no business getting with 21 points in Tactics. It loses significant pressure and ammo regeneration by dropping HEC for Plasma Cell. It picks up several weaker CDR talents to avoid the HEC talents. When you run through the spec from a cost / benefit perspective, it really falls apart because it reaches for two non-synergistic talents- Hold the Line and Ionic Accelerator. Both deep Assault and deep Tactics have superior burst. Assault has a range advantage that negates the need for Hold the Line. Tactics gets Hold the Line and superior pressure. Both have superior survivability as Assault gets ranged and Reflexive Shield and Tactics gets Shock Absorbers. Both get additional abilities that play to the strenghts of the specs with Fire Pulse and Assault Plastique. This build has the same playstyle of a deep Tactics build but is weaker in virtually every phase of PvP than a deep Tactics build. That being said, this build does have one thing that it does better than any Trooper build and arguably any other build of any other class- melee kiting. Between Sweltering Heat and Hold the Line, it is absolutely trivial to kite melee classes. However, this isn't really a good advantage to have in the overwhelming majority of PvP encounters, and Assault does it pretty well already. Win occurs in #2 as the Sorc improperly leads with a stun. Additionally, you need to use Hold the Line before Overload in #3. You have to use Hold the Line before the Overload. It's going to put up a very recognizable graphic. If the Sorc uses Overload with that graphic up, he's a bad Sorc. He's going to stun you, get range, then Overload you when Hold the Line is down. You can trinket out, but at best in this situation, it's going to get you marginally better uptime and defintiely not a full 8 seconds. High Energy Cell is very underrated. Agreed. It would definitely need to be tweaked. It could be done with increasing the CD, decreasing the duration, a combination of both, or something in a different direction (IE short stun immunity). Don't understimate the power of a deep Tactics build. I don't run it, but it is a very effective build. You actually answered your own question. Assault isn't a pure close quarters build. Storm is better for support builds. Tactics is pure close combat and benefits from it. As I said, if you go deep Tactics, it's a very solid talent. It's not good for anything else and this is why it is overrated.

Watchman. But seriously... Combat doesn't really have a rotation even at the higher levels. It's much more of a priority system. The reason you aren't doing well isn't your rotation or lack of a good priority system- it's the spec. It's a terrible, terrible spec pre-43. Then it's just bad compared to Watchman and Focus until you hit 50 and get some solid gear. Edit: Oh and misread, when they get buff- run. Those guys suck no matter which spec you are... although I did just beat them down pretty good when I was Watchman. I've read that others snare and run.

It basically works against everything but stuns, disorients, and interupts. It's not terrible; it's just not good. It's average and definitely not a talent worth reaching for at 21 points into Tactics. If you are going more than 21 points in Tactics, you are going to have Pulse Generator. Hold the Line offers very minimal protection for getting off a Pulse Cannon against someone remotely competent. At a 30% movement speed boost, it's not a very good gap closer which is something that would benefit Tactics. And... it's only going to be a 13% movement speed increase if you have Battlefield Training (115% to 130%). It will give you a little better melee uptime on a target, but that's really about it. It's a very solid 1 point ability. It's not a very solid 21 point ability. By this I mean, if you are going deep Tactics, it's definitely worth the single point. Otherwise, it's totally not worth it. This compared to going 18 points into Assault. You completely waste 3 talent points and pick up 2 weak talent (5 points) to pick up Ionic Accelerator and High Friction Bolts. That's an example of a reach that may be justifiable.

It's terrible. There's a substantial delay on Ataru procs too as the game has an animation for it. You can interupt the animation with another ability, but the proc doesn't occur until the animation should occur whether or not it actually does or not. You can get 2 procs off Master Strike and I was convinced you could for a long time because the 2nd proc is so delayed.

Snare, Knockback, knockdown, Pull, etc. Without stun immunity and/or interupt immunity, it's a mediocre ability. It's a one-legged man's version of CC immunity.

The proc rate is 75% if it can proc off either hand with the Blade Rush buff. I tested 30 Slashes. 100% proc had an Ataru Strike. The probability of this being coincidence is .02%. I'll test again tonight, but I'm pretty confident it's a tooltip error like Opportune Attack. I'm also pretty sure my testing with the base proc chance reflected a 20% proc chance on ability use not a 36% chance.

Having a sign that says "Stun me" is far from awesome.

In my testing, it was not 30% but 100%.

^ One of the things a lot of people don't realize about Assault (and one of the reasons they have such horrible survivability) is that it is very effective at range. Shield and Tactics really require you to operate in a 0-10m range. Tactics arguably makes you operate in melee range depending on your talents. Assault is capable of anywhere within 0-30m. I rarely go into melee range voluntarily unless I'm going for a burst combo and want the higher HIB reset chance on Stock Strike.

Blade Rush appears to have a 100% chance to proc an Ataru Strike not 30%. I don't believe offhands can proc, it appears to be ability based. Offhand's are more than just a stat stick. They give you 30% to 66% more weapon damage. Offhands scale with ability coefficients. It's a pretty solid advantage. A lot of people get confused and look at it as a stat stick because it doesn't double dip into bonus damage- which would make it grossly overpowered. There is no "chance" to attack with the offhand. If an ability says it strikes with both weapons, it strikes with both weapons. Otherwise, it does not. Edit: On your slash example, if your tooltip says 500 damage for Slash, that is 500 damage if both weapons hit. The offhand suffers a penalty to accuracy. The offhand damage is included in abilities that attack with both weapons.

Mitigation is curved. It's actually not going to be as effective as it won't be affecting the mitigation but the actual armor. It's (armor) probably set to give a linear increase in TTL.

Drop the point in Kolto Recharge. It's bad. Pick up Shock Absorbers. I'd take the second point for Shock Absorbers from Steely Resolve or Frontline Defense. Tactics is a situational build. In this respect, it's somewhat like the Focus spec for Knights. The Focus tree has a lot of nice abilities, but if you aren't hitting powered up sweeps, the tree is basically worthless. While not as important as Sweep in Focus, if you aren't hitting powered up Pulse Cannons, Tactics doesn't perform nearly as well. Additionally, your range is 10m with Tactics. Assault's engagement range is 30m. This, by definition, makes a Tactics build more situation. Assault is effective at all ranges with increased effectiveness at 10m. Additional effectivenss is gained when able to get into melee range with Stock Strike; however, this isn't a requirement and Assault is quite effective at 10m. Tactics isn't effective outside of 10m. Tactics also has a huge drop in effectiveness outside of melee range unlike Assault. Tactics is reliant on Gut (or other players) to use HIB and loses out on both Battering Ram and Combat Tactics when not in melee range. This is not to say that Assault is better, but at 30m, Assault can engage with Incendiary Round, Assault Plastique, HIB (Incendiary Round gives the dot), 9% increased damage Hammer Shot, 9% increased damage Full Auto, and has a good chance to proc Plasma Cell for more damage at this range. It's very important to note that this engagement range not only gives Assault more flexibility while gap closing, but it also allows for superior target swapping and aquisition beyond the 10m range. I think this is really playing to the inconsistency you feel with the spec. Depending on the class composition of your opponents you can really feel it. If they are mostly ranged who don't bunch up, you are going to greatly suffer in Tactics. Assault will suffer but not on nearly the same level. A few things here: 1.) All the specs and all the classes pretty much have "too many abilities." You adapt overtime. 2.) You have to get better with hotkeys. If you are using '9' for an ability, you are at a pretty big disadvantage. That's going to require a reach and taking your fingers off the movement keys. Personally, I'm against using any numbers beyond '5'. Make sure you are using Shift, Control, and Alt as modifiers. If you don't mind spending some cash, get a Naga mouse. It's probably the single biggest QoL purchase you can make for gaming. 3.) Do not jump turn in this game for kiting. You actually slow down when you jump in SWTOR. In games where jump turning is a good practice, you do not lose forward momentum. However, you don't need to here either. Learn to strafe run effectively. This will not decrease your forward speed and will allow you to fire on a target without the jump turn. That being said, you really don't have to worry about kiting as much in Tactics. Kiting is much more of an Assault tree function. Tactics doesn't have a snare and only has a small movement speed increase. It's really not effective for kiting especially given the fact that it loses so much damage outside of melee range. I've tried Tactics. It's not a bad build for PvP, but it is much more of a pressure / niche build. Assault runs the gamut. There are virtually no situations that reduce your effectiveness. If you play smart, you have immense survivability through the ability to fight at all ranges effectively. In Civil War and Voidstar, the 18 second 30m dot is absolutely phenomenal. The burst of Assault is substantial at all ranges and terrifying up close. It is ammo intensive, but you also have the ability to slow down and deal out strong pressure at all ranges. Note about Hold the Line: This has to be one of the most overrated abilities out there. It doesn't protect against stun or interupts. When you use it, you get a very noticiable graphic that says to everyone "Stun me!" or "I'm about to use a channeled ability- get ready to interupt!"

First, you have failed to use sufficiently negative words to describe how bad Kolto Recharge is. However, it is nice to have in the tree. If you see a spec with it, you know it's bad. Shock Absorbers is actually a really nice PvP talent. Battlefield Training is another really solid talent- for both PvE and PvP. PvE fights require movement and being quicker there is actually a pretty sizable buff. I don't know if you played WoW, but people ran some numbers on a raid wide speed buff from one class. The speed buff actually caused a greater increase in damage for melee than any other buff for many fights. Situational, granted. It's also very effective in PvP although I would argue much less effective than an actual snare.

The problem with Guard is just like the other poster said. It doesn't prevent damage, it reallocates it. You need basically need a dedicated healer to make it work, and then, in most circumstances, the team would be better off with another DPS over what you bring to the table. The healer still has to heal the full amount of the damage dealt. Guard does not slow the rate at which the healer has to heal. It simply splits the damage between two targets and healing two targets is actually a bit more difficult than a single target especially given the poor targeting / macro abilities in the game. You are even more vulnerable to a target swap. People see the potential in Guard especially after it was so dominant in WAR. This is not WAR. Guard was unbelievably strong in WAR due to the strength and efficiency of AoE healing. If my WP had a Guard in WAR, he became indestructable AND had a massive boost in healing efficiency. This is not WAR. Edit: Your right about dead men don't deal damage. Tanks don't kill people; DPS kills people. It's just like my old jokes about my Warrior in WoW having the best CC in the game- Instagib has the longest duration of all the CC and doens't have a cooldown.

Agreed. When the stars align for Combat with the RNG, it wins... always.

The problem is that most people think Combat is the bursty spec. Combat is actually extremely linear damage and has the best Focus generation. I think the reason people think it's the bursty spec is because Blade Storm is basically auto crit and it has an armor ignore. This hardly signals burst tree. Watchman is much more bursty than Combat; however, Combat has excellent sustained damage. As someone else has mentioned, Combat is more difficult to kite. As someone who also plays an Assault Trooper, Watchman is significantly easier to kite. Combat cannot be kited. Combat is extremely gear dependent. I would say by far the most dependent out of all our trees. When you have the gear to support it, it will do the most damage in a sustained damage situation. Watchman will still have it beat in burst and utility making it probably better in PvP regardless of whether Combat catches it in PvE.

This is pretty spot on however, there are a few minor errors (I would say that skew in favor of Blade Rush overall). 1.) Blade Rush is not an automatic Blade Storm crit. It will give you an automatic Ataru Strike. If you already have Combat Trance up, it will not refresh the buff. This only happens when Combat Trance is not up. 2.) Opportune Attack is actually only a 30% proc chance not 100%. This is a tooltip error. 3.) The Focus is only regained if the same condition is met for #1 to give a crit Blade Storm. 4.) In my testing, the Blade Rush's buff to Ataru Strike chance is not 30%. I tested more than 100 swings. I had a 100% proc chance with the buff up. 5.) Blade Rush can proc an Ataru Strike in addition to its auto Ataru Strike. If Blade Rush is used during its buff, it will always deal 2 Ataru Strikes.

I want to second putting points into Defensive Forms. I'd do it after getting Overload Saber. It's amazing for two points.

A few things: 1.) Are you counting the offhand attack? 2.) Do you have offhand spec? 3.) It's 4 Focus vs. 2 Focus, not 5 vs. 3. 4.) 2 Slashes requires 4 Focus AND two GCDs. A better comparison is Merciless Slash and Strike. This significantly outperforms 2 Slashes. It's 2 Focus vs. 4 Focus in this comparison. 5.) Precision Slash is not up for every Blade Storm. 6.) Pretty sure Merciless Slash is a 12 second CD. The second one is 12 seconds, third is 10.5, fourth is 9, and fifth is 7.5.

Like I said, it could have changed. I'll probably go test it tonight. I know for a fact it was not increasing the damage. Like I said, you are doing the math wrong. 4.8k is 17% greater than 4.1k. The mitigation is actually ~14.6%. Regardless, it has no effect on tooltip damage which is what you were using in your calculations. Mitigation reduces tooltip damage. Using Precision Strike will bring your attacks in line with the tooltip. It will not increase the damage. Just from that SS, I'm more likely to believe it's from a MS. It doesn't mean that at all. Watchman doesn't have much in the way of AoE. He likely did more single target damage than you did. You did more damage per kill than he did which could be a positive or a negative- there not enough information to determine from postgame statistics.

You don't need 100% accuracy. You need 95% or less. All specials have 10% hit. Mobs have horrendous defense.

Combat is very good later with good gear. The last time I tested, which has been a while, the Blade Rush buff provided a 100% chance to proc Ataru Strikes. It's excellent sustained damage. It's behind in terms of burst and utility.