Yar, good idea. I switched back to +10.20% accuracy for last nites raid. Didn't miss for FA and HiB and crit rate was back to normal. Much better results.

Nice results there Gyro. Crit rate way higher for you now. ~20% crit Elemental vs ~45% crit Internal. It doesn't translate into a big overall dps difference. But hey, an increase is an increase.

The only way to increase your average relic damage would be to use the internal one as it's crit rate would be significantly higher. FYI, I don't believe Burnout increases the Elemental Relic's damage btw. So it's not really counter-intuitive.

You have that exactly right. But to be a bit more clear. Dread guard relic of elemental transcendance for consulars/inquisitors and warriors/knights Dread guard relic of dark radiance (internal) for smugglers/operatives. Troopers/BH not using ArP cell or equivalent) Dread guard relic of kinetic tempest for troopers/BH using armor peircing cell (or equivalent) Dread guard relic of cerulean nova (energy) for no one.

Damn RNG was killing me last nite. FA missed 35 times out of 896 for 3.6%. HiB missed 13 out of 208 for 6.3%. Accuracy was at +8.68% btw. While i was hoping that +8.68% would be better than +10.20% with the +.20 being wasted, it's days like this that prove the opposite. I'm going back to +10.20%. Also it's been suggested that this game is using a 2 roll system. This means if you missed at 10% you'd crit 10% less often. Meaning you'd go from 40% crit to 36% crit for example. My logs and other classes/specs logs verify this. So please get to +10%. And being slightly over 10% is better than being at less than +9%.

First off. You macro and use Reserve Powercell, Tech Overide and Plasma Grenade. Only use when all 3 are available. Least that's how i use it. You don't have to use tech Overide btw. If you do you'll be using the GCD of 1.5 seconds. If you do not use it cast time will be less then the GCD based on your cast speed. I'm more often than not moving around so prefer to use it. If you prfer to wait for all 3 to be off cooldown then it's 2 minutes between uses. If you aren't using tech Overide it's 1.5 minutes between uses. I prefer to wait for the 2 minutes and use when i also have my Power on use relic used. On a single mob it's a dps increase. Use it when you have the mob fully armor debuffed. Only the dot is uneffected by armor. Use it when FA, HIB, and DR are on cooldown as well. For fights where there are adds it's best to save it for that. Minefield and last boss in EC. Adds on 1st boss in TfB. All are good examples. For when CoF has not procced. You always use FA wether CoF procs or not. FA has priority over everything else when CoF is procced. When CoF is not procced HiB and DR have priority. Although if you're lazy like me i have FA and grav Round macroed together in that order. So quite often HiB and DR are delayed due to FA going off wether it has a CoF proc or not. For HiB use. Now and then you won't have a 5 stack because of CoF procs, etc. I personally prefer to use HiB then DR following that. I always want it this way. HiB will use zero ammo. DR will use 2 ammo. Using them together like this it's a toal cost of 2 ammo in 3 seconds. Because HiB uses zero ammo this quite often put you in the higher ammo recovery rate as well. Which gives you the ability and or ammo to use DR. You don't want to delay DR use as it's overall dps is higher than any other ability except FA with a CoF proc. You also want to use HiB and DR together for the best ammo regen possible. So while HiB will hit ~6% less hard with a 4 stack it's still best to use it together with DR. Ammo regen and not delaying DR are the main reasons and overall this is a dps increase vs delaying the use of these 2 abilities. If i math it using my parses with a 4 stack vs delaying the use of HiB and DR is a 2 dps loss using a 4 stack. With a 2 stack it's a 29 dps loss. I can live with the 2 dps loss as my FA GR macro is a significant gain for me. So overall for me it's a gain with a 4 stack. Your macros if you use any and play style will effect this. I don't however use HiB with only a 2 stack though. To much of a loss.

Well his tests are wrong or he had a brain fart. I don't just theorycraft. I do a ton of testing. Accuracy should be between 8-10%. Below that and dps suffers quite a bit. There is no choice of lowering accuracy to gain power. Your choice is Accuracy, Surge or Alacrity. Out of those 3 choices accuracy comes out on top. You'll already have plenty of surge and be hitting DR.

Here's our commando testing of relics. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=556288&highlight=relic&page=3 And mmo-mechanics? I prefer to test everything myself. Well at least this may save some people 300 coms.

I switched cells and put some crit gear on to verify that the relic will crit higher than previously. Just trying to ensure it's tech and not ranged crit. Easier for you to do than me though. Guess i could respec as it's free now but i'm lazy. Did another run with the DG Kinetic relic and i'm still at 45% tech crit. Relic crit at 44.79%. Ignore the 1st fight as i forgot to equip the damn thing. http://www.torparse.com/a/59177 Did another quick test after increasing my tech crit to 47.18% and the DG Kentic relic was critting at 47.37% I think i'm done testing for now.

Oh sorry Gyro i read that wrong. 10.3% from crit rating, thanks. At least you know which relic to get now dude. Did another parse of the DG Internal relic. My tech crit was at 45%, range crit 41% and it was critting at 44.23%. http://www.torparse.com/a/59112 Getting some fairly consistent results here. So glad i can keep vendoring these relics back so i can test them all. And i still need 300 more coms as i need 2 relics. Power clickee and Kinetic for me as gunnery. Might take me 2 months as i hate doing dailies.

Yep, means a lot of people got the wrong relics. Quite a few in my guild. I only started checking these out recently because our sorc was using the internal one and the crit rate was terrible during a raid. So we've been testing lots of relics on different toons. I just don't know if they're behaving the same as always or not. If they are behaving the same it's just another reason why i never believe what people say and would rather test myself. And or have help testing as you were good enough to do Gyro. Humor me and give me your crit rating. It's about the only stat i don't have. Trying to math this.

Internal=tech Kinetic=tech Elemental=force Energy=force Test the Elemental one sages and sorcs. It should work fine. But confirmation needed. We just did a bunch of commando testing and verified Internal and Kinetic are using tech crit%. Elemental and Energy crit rate was horribe. So we assume it's using Force crit%.

So that looks to me to be confirming it's using tech crit for the DG Kinetic relic and force for the DG Elemental relic. I just did the same thing using the DG Kinetic relic although a shorter fight. My tech crit was 44.18%. The relic crit at 47.37%. Which is fine given the small sample size. http://www.torparse.com/a/59093 So it may look like this for which relic is using what for crit% Internal=tech Kinetic=tech Elemental=force Energy=force Just a theory me and my guildies been working on for a few days now. BTW what is or was your crit rating at as this may effect the elemental and energy relics. I'm thinking base 5%+1% companion quests+5% from lucky shots and +X% from crit rating.

Show me some data to confirm whatever you think the relics are doing. I'm not buying off on completely ramdom crit chance. Oh sure small samples will show a huge difference. But adding them all together gets the accuracy that much closer. I understand what you're saying. I just don't agree with you. From the results i'm seeing the relics may be critting based on ranged crit% and or melee crit%. And or tech and power. Although i suspect it's ranged and melee. So i just got naked and this is what i got using the Energy Relic. 69 hits with 3 of them being crits for 4.35% crit rate naked and no buffs. http://www.torparse.com/a/59073 This seems close enough as we have a base crit of 5% plus 1% for companion quest for 6% crit total. FYI i've tested this before with my clothes on and was getting between a low of 7.5% and as high as 17%. The low of 7.5% was without buffs btw.

BTW the Dev Austin Peckenpaugh was wrong in the quote i previously posted. He said with 55% armor reduction of a dummy with 5814 armor would have a DR of 19.5%. I'll repost what he said then show my findings. His math is off. He said with full armor reduction that the DR is 19.5%. This probably explains why he also said the damage while low was within 3% of his math which he attributed to RNG. He was wrong on both counts. The real DR based on my non crit hits with full 55% armor reduction vs an Ops dummy is 21.8%. The Kinetic Relic was non critting for 219 full 55% armor reduction. Here's the damage values i got based on armor reduction. 0% armor reduction=182 ( no nothing) 20% armor reduction=196 (no armor piercing cell but using a +5 stack armor debuff) 35% armor reduction=207 (armor piercing cell only) 43% armor reduction=212 (armor piercing cell+2 stack armor debuff) 51% armor reduction=216 (armor piercing cell+4 stack armor debuff) 55% armor reduction=219 (armor piercing cell+5 stack armor debuff) Note it only takes 1 grav round to apply a 2 stack armor debuff which exceeds the internal relic's damage. Note also that some people were complaining that there was no difference in damage between a 4 stack and a 5 stack when using any of our damage abilities. I believe these were mostly Mercs though. The above clearly shows that they were wrong. 219/280=78.2% 100-78.2=21.8% DR The DR with 55% armor reduction is 21.8% and not 19.5% vs an Ops dummy. Using the correct math and his post with tracer missle damage you get 1804*.782=1411. Which is only off by 1 and approx a 0.1% difference. Reports are in that show the internal relic has a very high crit% for Troopers and Gunslingers. It seems to be critting based on Tech crit%. Oddly it seems it's crit% is higher than the Kinetic relic. I ran a few short tests to confirm the behavior and got the following results. Internal relic crit% 34% with average damage at 266 Kinetic relic crit% 30% with average damage at 267 fyi i did let the armor debuff fall off several times during the Kinetic test. The sample size was very small at 1 test each at approx 12-13 minutes. A previous poster using the Internal relic had 314 hits with 115 being crits for a 36.6% crit rate. I tried an old Kinetic Relic and only achieved a 23% crit rate during several tests. If the crit rate of the Internal relic is significantly higher than the kinetic relic it could beat out the Kinetic relic. I think we need more logs with the new relics as they may be behaving differently than previously. Also need larger sample sizes to determine the crit rates of both types. -NOTE- Do not use the Elemental or Energy relics as they both have a terrible crit rate for us.

Verfallen you are so wrong sir. Maybe do some testing and research before posting your missinformation.

Your crit is a bit to high based on your current gear and damage values. You'd do better by increasing your power. Swap out the Advanced Agile Mod 26A's for Advanced Agile Mod 26's or if possible a 27. While you can argue all you want about critting more you'd be wrong in your assumption based on the gear you posted. Granted as you said people in the past were saying 35% crit buffed. This was actually correct in that you didn't want to be above 35% crit fully buffed. But that was with the gear and talents at that time. And you are correctly pointing out that this does need to be updated. However having 783 power and 39.67% crit is not optimal either. It's a balance of stats. As your damage and power increases crit becomes more valuable. As your crit increases power becomes more valuable. You're currently on the side where power is way more valuable to you. When i was simming the new gear back in July i came up with the following. FYI this is based on 63 gear, using all high power armorings, using 27 Agile and 27 Nimble crit and power mods ie no 27A's or B's and 2 War Hero Relics. Which is optimal and which has a lower overall crit %. So take that into concideration when looking at the below. power=920-1020 (if power is towards the low side then crit should be towards the high side) crit rating=200-308 (if crit rating is towards the low side then power should be towards the high side) Your talent spec is incorrect as well. Either go with 6/31/4 or 5/31/5. Here's my MrRobot talent build and gearing i'm going for. Can swap out 2 power mods or 2 power crystals for crit rating. Just don't exceed 308 crit rating. When 65 gear comes out i'll update the values as needed. Can swap out 1 War Hero relic for the new +power/kinetic damage proc relic. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/8eacc5ff-2bf2-4542-9124-681663c15d2c

Seriously you need the full 3 points in Target Lock. I can't see either of your talent builds. Use the site i use below. Oaceen i will assume you're using this build 6/31/4 http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/commando/23/?build=020300010000000000000000000002233112201200120111032000100310000000000000000000000000&ver=15 If memory serves i was getting a 66% uptime on first responder. Which puts you at 5.3% alacrity. I found it to be erratic with ammo regen. So i always end up going back to 5/31/5 http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/commando/23/?build=020300000000000000000000000002233112201200120111032000100320000000000000000000000000&ver=15 While sims show the first as better real life for me has proven the 2nd as being better. Logs below using 5/31/5 build above. Doc, here's a 12m12s fleet ops dummy test to compare against your 12m18s test. Lots of lag as fleet had 200+. Notice i only used Hammershot 2 times vs your 46 in our over 12 minute parses. FYI i was using an Exotech reflex stim but no adrenals. All 4 buffs active. Still using a matrix cube and champion relic. Accuracy at ~+8.5%. Not too impressive i know. Damn the lag. And i understand you don't have the 5% crit buff and that you weren't using an Exotech reflex stim. You can still determine which build is better. And Doc if you look at the numbers i'm only hitting 2.0-2.5% harder than you. Well except for HiB and Full Auto that is, where i really shine. I highly suggest you respec for either of the talent builds i posted. Try them both as your play style will dictate which is best for you. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/1d94f63d-244a-4700-a0ba-a8e9c658c7df/overview#d=0,f=1,t=2,b=1 http://www.torparse.com/a/53548 Oaceen, you are correct that going from 10% to 30% for Target Lock increases HiB and Full Auto damage by approx 11%. When i was testing this i believe it was a 5.6-6.0% damage increase per point into that talent. Really need to find my notes to be a bit more precise.

Austin Peckenpaugh posted this quite a while ago. So the kinetic and or energy relic damage would be 280*80.5%=225.4. Which is more damage than the internal damage relics. My problem is the up time on the proc relics. I've used them in the past and my up time was terrible. Mathing it may show the proc relic as beating out X. But real world conditions and logs from raids in the past told me otherwise.

Can do. Let me know if this link works for ya. http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/8eacc5ff-2bf2-4542-9124-681663c15d2c I recently moved so don't have my notes on hand. With Ilevel63 gear it should be close to the above. At this level of gear and if memory serves i believe you can swap out some power for crit rating. As crit rating surpasses power until DR makes power more valuable. I simmed this out previously to 308 crit rating. It's just a balance of power and crit rating. You want about 1000 power. But you can't really just give it a number as it always depends on your current gear.

Yar, np. I'm just surprised these questions are still asked. Thought we put this to bed a long time ago. But i know there is always a lot of missinformation out there. So i guess a confirmation is warranted.

I did full testing of accuracy quite a while ago as i hadn't seen any confirmations. There was speculation only at the time. My full testing showed you need +10% to not miss with Full Auto and High Impact Bolt. I did test at +9.5% in case you're wondering. Test all you want. But if you get a different number then you haven't done enough testing and you would be wrong. To the OP. Accuracy to +10% is on average the best way to gear. Simcraft shows this and so do my parses. Depending on the fight the commandos using +10% accuracy should be at the top of the charts. If they aren't then they really need to l2p. The only question about accuracy is with Ilevel63 gear and wether we should gear to +10.27% or drop to +8.68%. With Ilevel61 gear we hit +9.89% which was optimal. Personally i'm currently at this stage of Ilevel63 gearing and i'm going with +8.68% accuracy as i believe it's more beneficial than exceeding +10% by .27%. A Merc would benefit more by going with +10.27% as exceeding 10% would benefit their Unload offhand. Simcraft confirms this as well. Since simcraft doesn't work with commandos i can only speculate that dropping to +8.68% is best. So i won't confirm that it really is best for commandos. I think it's so close you could go either way and not notice a difference.

The only 16 man raiding guild republic side it looks like. Need more cool peeps so we can keep forging ahead. Enjoy the challenge. Be a part of the team. Get that sense of accomplishment from clearing content as part of a 16 man team.

1)Unload mainhand will always hit if your accuracy is at +10%. Offhand needs +30? or 35% to not miss. This is working as intended since beta. 2)Looking at logs i see a damage increase to unload when barrage procs. Recall that you will not see a 25% increase in damage vs no barrage proc. I did this math months ago and a dev confirmed it's additive and not muliplicative. Non barrage proc is 1+.30=1.30%. With barrage proc it's 1+.30+.25=1.55% and not 1*1.30*1.25=1.625%. This means barrage proc and non barrage unload should look like this; 1300 (base damage for this example) 1+.3=1.3 so1300*1.3=1690 (base damage+Riddle talent) 1+.3+.25=1.55 so 1300*1.55=2015 (base damage+Riddle talent+barrage=correct math) 1*1.3*1.25=1.65 so 1300+1.625=2112 (base damage*riddle*barrage=incorrect math) Damage increase between non barrage proc and barrage proc is 2015/1690=119% or 19% increase (correct math) Damage increase between non barrage proc and barrage proc is 2112/1690=125% or 25% increase (incorrect math) Looking at some logs i'm seeing up to a 20% increase and as low as 13% increase. RNG i would say. We've been over this so many times in the past and it was always proven to be working correctly. However I have only looked at a smallish sample size. So please download SCLR. Get min, max, and average unloads with barrage proc. Then run another test of unloads without the barrage proc. And please don't use adrenals and such while testing. 3)I have not confirmed this. However the logs i've looked at do not show using heat for railshot. I see activates Rail Shot. gains 0 in the logs i've looked at. If you have any showing activates Rail Shot. gains 8 or 16 then please provide them. Without proof nothing will be done and i've yet to see proof. 4)Damage appears to be where it should be. At least looking at the logs i've seen. But i did not go into great length to verify exactness. As far as i can tell you are incorrect about all 4 of these. But there may be intermitent issues i'm not seeing or possibly barrage isn't quite increasing damage as much as it should. Although it appears to be fine. So please provide data confirming what is broke. If something is broke i sure as heck want it fixed. I'm just not seeing any of the 4 listed things broke in the logs i looked at.

Good question that. I haven't done the math. Off the top of my head i'd say between 100-120dps gain. But i know some people that claim an even higher amount going just from a 26 to a 27 barrel. But either way it's fairly significant and the easiest and biggest increase in dps you'll get.