Why even have enrage timers on Story Mode? We're not talking min/maxers trying to trivialize the content. We're talking casual people who don't want to sweat out a 5 min timer. Gotta use WoW here. Yeah a lot if not most WoW bosses had enrage timers but they were extremely forgiving. (Can't speak for Cataclysm quit after Wrath) Basically if you could keep alive long enough to down a boss you wouldn't normally run up against timers. Enrage timers seem like lazy design. Like every boss is a dps check. Boring. HM Ops ok fine yeah you need solid dps and you should they are called Hardmodes. But I still think they could find better and more interesting designs to incorporate than...ok we have the boss fight design down, now we just need to add an enrage timer because we can't come up with any better ideas.

Op said story mode too difficult for the target audience. Not HMs. I think too many people are seeing these posts and either assume people are meaning HMs. Or HM level raiders are just sour grapes and don't want casuals to have their fun too. The same thing happened with LFR in WoW. That passed when people realized that normal mode WoW raids are still for regular guilds and HMs are for progression guilds. Same thing here people. But thanks for coming in late in the post and assuming you know the context of the whole post...

This won't happen. I imagine < 1% of people in general post on forums. So the people complaining about content being too easy were more serious raiders. The casual people are not gonna post here very often for 2 reasons. 1 They are too busy playing and enjoying the game and 2 why open yourself to forum ridicule from morons with bad grammar who cannot tell the difference between to and too, your and you're, and their they're and there. No I imagine the casuals were enjoying normal EV/KP just fine. It was/is a few hour escape for them where they went in and were able to clear content and feel like a raider. If they venture into HMs and then complain then I completely agree witht the L2P better. But I saw very few posts that were..."Hi I'm super casual Steve and my guild went into HMs last night after weeks and weeks of clearing normal modes. These are too hard please nerf."

What he said ^^

And it begins in earnest. I've posted in a few other posts about this. People are braving the forums and the ridicule they will encounter because as many have honestly pointed out. This may be a bit much for story mode. It will only get worse. Give casual raiders the difficulty of EV/KP on normal then pull the rug out and make them be aware of actual mechanics. Bad move Bioware when you made it sound at G summit that story would be 'even easier'. They had better clarify their stance in an official memo if this is the intended difficutly for story mode or like someone above said casuals and puggers will stop raiding and possibly unsub. /popcorn (gonna be great forum fun just like first month of Cataclysm when I predicted the same thing) Makes for great reading!

Lol watch them take servers down because this wasn't supposed to be in game yet.

Lol sorry I was just using that as a for instance. I just mean normal is normal, HM adds new mechanics, and Nightmare blows your hair back and takes a month or months to down even by the best guilds, like Vanilla bosses were in WoW. But I do stand by tank swapping as a step up in difficulty for many who would wrongly assume that someone was pulling agro or that that tank sucked and couldn't hold agro. Let's face it some peeps are not good raiders and never will be so I thought that a 3 tiered system of super easy, challenging and OMG (pulls hair out) was brilliant. But in actuality I just fear they are gonna alienate that segment and I'm betting casuals and people who prefer pugging are a large portion of the subs.

The biggest problem players are having right now is the introduction of real mechanics and raid coordination and communication. These, in and of themselves, are not "hard" but they're certainly new for TOR players. It will take time to get used to them. When they are, we'll be back to complaining about how easy the game is. I agree with you in principle but some mechanics are gonna be too much for some players. I know that sounds generalized but hear me out. I thought EV/KP were boring because normal and HM were the same (I don't do nor do I care to do Nightmare, I'm a HM target audience). So why not 1st boss story, tank and spank with gear that is only available in story mode. Then HM... OMG!!! what is this the boss jumped over to me what the hell is this!!!! Chaos ensues and a wow factor of learning a new wrinkle. See that is dynamic and fun and allows the story mode to be all inclusive so THAT segment of the population is happy. I'm telling you all that these complaints are only gonna grow as more and more casuals get braver to actually post here and open themselves to the ridicule that will follow from the jerk everyday poster types. It happened in Cataclysm and it will invariably happen here. If you allow more people to raid with lower difficulty content like how easy normal mode EV/KP was and then do a complete 180 and make them NOT stand in stuff, or tank swap or actually heal full time those peeps not gonna be happy. And you all know I'm right.

One more thing, sorry. I will agree with anyone who says it might be a bit unfair that story mode drops Rakata when only HM or Nightmare tier 1 dropped Rakata. This game's itemization sucks badly and needs revamped. It's boring. Everyone looks the same /yawn. Sorry to use WoW again but hey they are the big boys. In Wrath you had Naxx gear and equivalent Tier then Ulduar gear and equivalent tier pieces and on and on. It was not Naxx and equivalent gear then Ulduar dropped Naxx gear and a few Ulduar pieces.

If you hit your target audience with a properly tuned difficulty the incentive to play more is leveling up alts and doing the Ops in whichever difficulty you have chosen. In WoW Wrath and before I had my main that was always current and I also raided 2-3 alts in the lower tiers. By your standard some of these people need to do normal 1st tier then HM 1st tier in order to do story 2nd tier??? Like someone said above it should be story to story to story. Some people would never be able to down HM Soa with tier 5 gear on so story should be for them. Also, to some of the rest of you, I'd venture to guess that <1% of people on MMOs post or read forums and thusly an also small percentage watch raid strats on youtube, they are too busy...wait for it....playing the game and trying to enjoy it. So careful when some of you throw the noobs titles around.

I just want this game to succeed. WoW with 12 million subs can lose 2-3 million and still be in great shape. This game with (if you believe the numbers) 2 million subs CANNOT lose a million and still be in great shape. I fully admit that I'm middle of the road, skill, time to play, ambition to raid etc. Many of you 'hardcore' are actually more middle of the road than you want to admit. But I will step off my soap box and drop this all if some of you will empathize with people who aren't at your skill levels and see that this new tier just may be a bit much for people used to EV/KP normal and are expecting more of the same...

At 8:15-8:33 he also says 'it's gonna be a LITTLE' bit more than the first tier gear as far as gear-up required. And he also says not quite as much difference from going from one to the next.' So how does everyone interpret that? Either you can go from gearing in normal EV/KP to story EC is one way, or you can interpret it as needed HM EV/KP gear to progress from normal-HM (1st tier)-story-HM (2nd tier)? I interpreted it as normal-story(2ndtier)-story(3rd tier). The itemization in this game sucks. Badly. There are very few pieces of gear that aren't tier that are actually better or equal to tier gear. In wow bosses each had numerous DIFFERENT drops. In WoW you could get great gear from raids that weren't tier because let's face it often the tier bonus stunk and the stats on non tier gear was actually better. And you'd see numerous gear combinations on people and rarely did one person look the same as another. Definitely not so in this game. I'm saying that casuals and pugs are not gonna like this tier of content and will get frustrated and quit. Or just not raid. When they've said they want nearly everyone to be able to do some form of Ops. About the 4th or 5th day of Cataclysm I correctly predicted on forums that while I wasn't having much trouble with the heroics and enjoyed healing them the challenge many casuals would hate it, combined with the changes to healing. I got flamed saying the challenge is great brah so much better than facerolling like Wrath moron!! lol lulz haha loser noob! Then slowly but surely subscription loss. It was barely a month after release that they nerfed the 5 mans lol I had never seen such a quick nerf to large chunks of the content. But the damage had been done. Now, (I don't play wow anymore btw, 6 years was enough and no it wasn't the difficulty) I read the WoW forums from time to time and it's all man dead servers cmon Blizz merge them!!! And guess what from Blizz (paraphrasing here obviously) 5 man heroics in MoP will be more in tune with Wrath content. Gasp!!! wow!! I guess Blizz has learned their lesson. The Wrath paradigm of accessabilty and inclusiveness was still the best ever in an MMO despite what anyone thought of the actual content. So the lesson don't give a large section of your playerbase (the dreaded term casuals in this case) something easy and attainable and fun to them, then pull the rug out and make them beat their head against the wall.

But Bluestone they specifically said they ARE trying to please everyone. And the way they made it sound at G Summit that there would be a progression flow just for pugs and super casual small guilds, Story Mode. I don't think any one of us here arguing that point are saying it is too hard for us, because I do, will and will always spend most my time in HMs. I'm saying they are risking large chunks of subscriber base with the marked increase in difficulty from normal mode EV/KP to story mode EC. Should it be more difficult than tier 1? Absolutely. But it seemed to me that you need to have done HM Tier 1 in order to be successful in Story Tier2 and some people simply lack the skill, time or ambition to do HMs even after they have done the normals 20 times. Say all you want about WoW but LFR was a brilliant move on their part after losing (and I've lost track) around 2 million subscribers from Wrath to Cata. Over time I forsee LFR being a design that will bring more people back or at least stabalize their subscription numbers. This is not EQ1 or Vanilla WoW where people have to bang their heads over and over again in order to proceed. These companies have correctly (accounting wise) realized that more inclusive means more money. More money equals ability to put more into game. I'm sorry Story mode as it stands is not inclusive. People will watch the strats and still wipe for 4 hours on the 1st boss maybe out of luck get to 2nd boss in here and then out of frustration they will quit game or quit raiding get bored level alt try raiding again and quit game. I DO NOT want that to happen to this game. I, for the most part, am enjoying this game.

If what you are saying is correct that 'On the flipside, Normal Mode is becoming Story Mode and will be even easier. The idea is that everyone will be able to see the content in Story Mode (right now only 38% of level-50 characters have stepped foot into an Operation), Hard Mode will be the main mode for organized guilds, and only the most elite players will beat Nightmare.' Then story mode EC should be EVEN easier in comparison to HM EC when you compare it to normal mode EV/KP to HM EV/KP. Is that how I am understanding you? Cmon normal mode EV/KP first night in 10/10 without even knowing the fights, with one wipe on Fabricator in KP completely disregarding most boss mechanics. So now you want to say that I misread that normal mode being completely renamed to story mode so that, and I quote, EVERYONE will be able to see the content. Lol look I don't care I don't have a dog in this fight. I simply observed that this raid was not as easy in comparison than previous normal modes and was actually imo more difficult than at least half of the HM bosses from the first tier. I cannot compare to nightmare because I'm just not at that point anymore raiding like I used to be in WoW. And honestly I think most encounters are lazily designed in this game with enrage timers instead of dynamic content where staying alive IS the enrage timer but that is a totally different argument. My understanding was that people who so chose could go from normal mode EV/KP into story mode EC into story mode 3rd tier etc etc ad infinitum. Not have to do up to HM of previous tier to progress to story mode next tier. My observation was actually this....If this is the difficulty they intended for story then wow they are gonna have some unhappy casuals and people who prefer to pug at 2 am on Wednesdays because that is the only day they can raid. Time will tell and as much as they have gotten right they've gotten an equal amount wrong and I'd hate to see a game I'm enjoying lose large chunks of its subscription base.

To ArchangelLbc read a post of mine about 5 up. I linked a post from Guild Summit, and Bioware said that. #3 first bullet...

I think some of you are missing the point. No one here seems to be complaining that it is too difficult. What some of us are saying is it's not what they advertised, they being Bioware. They said that normal was becoming 'story' and it would be even EASIER than the first tier of raiding. EC story is NOT easier than EV/KP normal. Not even close. Some people don't want that much of a challenge they just want to see all current content. I imagine many unprepared people who have only done normal EV/KP and have equivalent gear will be most unhappy with this new raid in 'story' mode. Some of you just keep saying new raid, it's harder brah. When Bioware said that wasn't gonna be the case. HM is gonna be for most guilds, Nightmare will be truly a nightmare for the hardcore raiders and story will be for the casuals, pugs and people who will never make it raiding HM content. Kinda like LFR in WoW. This is smart tiering of the raids but when casuals start going in there and wiping for 3 hours on the 1st boss they will be most unhappy. Then all of you will flame people for complainging when BIOWARE said they'd be easier. Lol this isn't rocket science. Personally I think they should have followed through with making story mode easier and have the lockouts work with HMs. That way you can't double dip for that few pieces of Rakata gear that you need then also get to do HMs the same week. That way casual guilds, story IS their lockout. Progression guilds, HM or Nightmare is theirs.

I also thought EC 'story' was a bit overtuned based on their stated goal for story mode. http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/ It doesn't bother me but I thought especially the first boss on story was more difficult than many HM bosses in EV/KP. And that would be cool if they said that was their progression model but it wasn't. In the 1st bullet in #3 on the link above from the Guild Summit they stated that normal would become Story and be even easier than EV/KP. /shrug. I imagine this will just fuel another casual/hardcore fire and there will be tons of flames on both sides. I can't imagine a casual guild in Columi/Tionese from story EV/KP will be gettinc this new raid down any time soon.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/09/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-old-republics-future/ First bullet on #3. When I read this it seemed to me that story mode would be for puggers and small very casual guilds. Oh well their game, if they wanna backtrack and alienate the people they intended story mode for what do I care, I'll spend most my time in HMs anyway.

So I thought that story mode from now on was supposed to be even easier than story mode EV and KP? I swear I read that in one of their official press releases? We decided to do story mode tonight of the new raid to test the waters. I'd say it was more challenging than some of the HM bosses in EV and KP?

I disagree. Im very much a completionist and plan on possibly suspending my accont while i spend my available free time doing everything in me3. And i imagine others may do the same. I spent 100s of hours on fallouts and skyrim trying to do everything. Blizz normally releases blizz games in big lulls like a few months before a new xpac when many werent even playing wow until the new xpac. But i guess they are the billion dollar company so cool cant wait for me3

It is the same market share sci fi dorks like all of us. With this game being so new you'd think they'd want to let this game get some traction before releasing a competing game. If you believe the naysayers, and i don't , this game is on the ropes. Regardless if people on a budget have to choose then they suffer considering this game is pretty new. Just seems like odd timing. Like if blizz decided to release d3 2 months after a new xpac.

Why would BW release a major patch the same month as ME3? Seems like competing against yourself for the same market share. I realize that many don't play both but I'm betting that a large percentage do.

So a few days ago it was cold out and I had nothing better to do that day so I watched The Trilogy for probably the 15th time in my life. I don't have a working VCR anymore so I cannot watch the unaltered versions. So for a few minutes in ep IV Boba Fett is in this one now for like 2 minutes. In Empire obviously there is a decent amount of runtime with Boba in it say 10-15 minutes tops. Then in Jedi he dies within the first half hour but is actully only on the screen for say 5 minutes. He has very little dialogue 'he's worth a lot to me alive'. So how has he become such an iconic figure in the Star Wars legacy? I fully admit he was one of my 2-3 favorite figures when I was a kid. Not Slave 1 though I had it but always thought it looked like a junker. He has books about him, a game (that was fun btw). I'm sure someone has asked this before on some Star Wars forum but watching the trilogy it dawned on me how was this guy made so famous for 20 ish minutes of airtime?

I just wish these grand scale mmos had the guts to say we are a pve or pvp game. We will have the other in game but it is an afterthought a diversion. Wow pvp was way more fun before they horribly attempted to be for 'competetive' pvpers with arenas. The attempts at competetively balancing both pve and Pvp are friutless until someone learns how to not nerf one unintentionally while nerfing another intentionally.

Lol to those of you saying because of kotor but pretty sure the toys some of us speak of circa 1977-78 predate the kotor lore. Not trying to be contrarian but maybe just a younger newer generation of star wars fans? Those toys were epic! I think ill go to my parents this weekend and dig them out!