subrosian
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Posts posted by subrosian
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Cept assassins can self heal and a Juggernaut as far as I know can't.
Thats like trying to argue that a Sorcerer is a good tank because they can self-heal. Damage reduction determines effective health and survivability. Juggs have the highest on both AND currently scale the best with gear. Assassins rng self-heal does not scale and their long cd 10% is proc based AND provides no DR.
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Jedi Guardian Tanks, and Juggernaut tanks both have to build focus (and they have a focus generation handicap), so they actually do need to invest more in accuracy than a shadow tank needs to.
Unless you are terrible, you will build Rage just fine. Since Assassins MUST ALSO TAKE ACCURACY IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN THREAT your energy mechanic is largely irrelevant. The raw mitigation difference is HUGELY in favor of Juggs, which is what is most important.
No matter what, a Jugg will take less damage than an Assassin, which means they are the better tank for progression. In addition, they are built to scale threat generation based on the damage being taken, while Assassins LOSE DR AS THE NUMBER OF ATTACKS IN A GIVEN PERIOD INCREASES. I can't help if you lack the skill to manage rage... you are being handed DR like candy, which is the most important stat for a tank
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OH! I can predict what whine comes next: self heal. Our one long CD that heals for 10%, which is weak because it does not prevent the damage. Our other so called self-heal is RNG and does not heal for even 0.5% of our health, and does not scale properly, meaning we actually lose its non-utility as time goes on, whereas Juggs passive mitigation scales, causing your effective HP to increase dramatically with gear.
If people would stop trying to loltank like this is WOW and learn that tanking mechanics are quite different, they would have no problem playing Juggs in SWTOR.
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People listing 15k HP mean they want you to have 3 pieces of Columni, not that they want you to stack Endurance. If you aren't running enough Flashpoints to have your 4-piece before raiding, you are honestly a liability, both in dps ouput and survival.
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No, it's an MMO.
The client - the software you install on your machine - is free. It does absolutely nothing without a license (the CD-key you registered to your account) and a subscription (the thing you pay ever month).
You can install the client on as many machines as you want, Bioware doesn't care, you can download it on 50 computers, the only thing they care about is your account, which is stored entirely on their servers.
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Because the tanking role requires situational awareness I want the actual moveset to be as fluid and streamlined as possible.
It is precisely because the role is so demanding that I want the skills to be easy to manage. If I was a dps and my only concern was finding a little pillbox to settle down in and lay down nukes I would be able to concentrate on a wacky 24 button priority chain and wouldnt mind micromanaging and m eyes darting between my cooldowns and my icons and my heat/nrg/force whatever.
As a tank I need to be watching too many other things. One look at the amazingly overcomplicated jug moveset and I cringed. I can't even keep track of the moves at level 30 and they haven't learned the entire skill set yet.
1. DPS in SWTOR is not "lol DPS". If your DPS lack awareness they will die constantly. This isn't WoW, you don't just stack up and burn on every boss.
2. If you can't manage *your buttons* Tanking is not for you. All Tanks have TONS of buttons because you have multiple taunts, DR cooldowns (which you need to understand, including what types of damage they prevent and how long they last). As a Tank not only will you have to maintain a DPS rotation, but you will also have to throw in guards, CDs, taunts, active mitigation and constantly retarget between different enemies and friendly players, all while watching the fight, calling when you need externals and watching phase transitions, mechanics, etc...
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So... yeah. None of the tanks are easy. Jugg has a ton of buttons. Assassin as a CRAP TON of buttons. PT has multiple buttons and various ranges. It's not the role for someone who is concerned about having to have 20+ keybinds, because that is mandatory regardless of which tank you take.
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But I cleared the content, you're just terrible", even though that has nothing to do with the actual topic.
Except that hasn't been the argument.
His LITERAL ARGUMENT is that Juggernauts must take Accuracy, while Assassins can have 0 accuracy and therefore have more mitigation (i.e. are better). This is COMPLETELY INCORRECT, as Juggernauts have more mitigation than Assassins by a margin that cannot be corrected with gear, period (due to CDs and how the Assassin's active mitigation functions against adds).
To make it worse, the premise is wrong, as Assassins in Nightmare mode with heavily geared DPS absolutely need some amount of accuracy, as Threat Generation does not scale well with defensive stats. In order to maintain threat with geared DPS bursting, the Assassin will need to be hitting enough to keep the boss at least enough that they do not outstrip their taunts.
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There are some minor issues with Juggs, but the majority of tanking issues in the game come down to people trying to play SWTOR as though it's WoW, when Tanking functions completely differently.
No one is arguing "Juggs clear Nightmare therefore you're bad". The argument is "you're looking at stats on the character screen as though raw stats are comparable, therefore you are wrong".
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No.
Why would they allow you to take on the iconic look of another class? Why not just let them have jet packs and guns too?
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which should i play as and Why?
which story is better?
Which is more fun to play as?
1. What you want. Seriously. Anything anyone else tells you is *their opinion* and any class balance differences people bring up *will change*. You know all the people who rolled Operative at launch because it was the "best PVP class". OOPS! Play the class YOU ENJOY, this is an MMO, it's going to be around for a while, you're in this for the long haul.
2. Story is a matter of opinion. If you want the classic "Star Wars Dark Side" story, either the Warrior or Inquisitor will give you the experience. The Warrior starts as the "most valued apprentice", the Inquisitor starts as a Slave, but both of the stories basically follow a fairly predictable "Sith" path.
3. Fun is SUBJECTIVE. Do you want to leap into combat, force choke, beat things down with Lightsabers and generally play like a slow, heavy force of nature (Warrior)... or do you want a class that uses Sith Sorcery and hides behind its lightsaber? Do you want Double Sabers (Warrior - Marauder), a double-bladed Saber (Inquisitor - Assassin), do you want a single saber and to use Force Lightning heavily (Inquisitor - Sorcerer), or a single-saber and more "Darth Vader" type gameplay (Warrior - Juggernaut)?
I would personally recommend the Warrior if you have doubts, as it has the most "hit stuff with a Lightsaber and here are some force abilities" type of play. It is "classic" in the sense of Jedi / Sith. The Inquisitor is based on Sith Sorcery and on a quote from the older Sith Lords that, essentially, the dark side has evolved past the need for a Lightsaber, and uses them primarily for the fear they create in others.
The Sith Sorcerer is one of the most popular characters in the game, also something to consider, it is popular because of its iconic Force Lightning and large toolbox of abilities - so decide for yourself based on what you think you will enjoy.
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I don't think you read my thread thoroughly enough to understand what I'm actually saying though. Juggernaut tanks need accuracy because with out it we will miss our rage builders. Assassins don't face the same challenge. this means they're free to stack all of their secondary into pure mitigation. thats around 300 points more into defense rating or shield/absorp or even some endurance (which is not subject to diminishing returns)
I read your thread, you're simply wrong.
Assassins need Accuracy because threat-generation is out-stripped by DPS generation. Your DPS in T3 gear, assuming they're not bad, will pull off an Assassin who drops all of their Accuracy. Threat does not work the way it does in WoW, you don't "build it" and that's it - DPS can pull off at any point, and they will once they are in half T3 gear or better, assuming they don't suck.
Juggernauts have higher quality Damage Reduction CDs than Assassins. If the raw stats on Assassins were not higher, they would literally get trucked as their HP being at a lower point prior to incoming burst means they're dead. They don't have the same option of shrugging off a big hit the way a Juggernaut can, and they're spending more time actively maintaining *basic mitigation*, let alone DR.
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Your "argument" is based on the notion that Assassins can somehow have 0 Accuracy and wind up with "bonus" mitigation that Juggs don't have. This is simply *completely wrong*. In fact, Juggs get *better CDs* that Assassins don't have, they maintain their full DR against multiple targets (whereas a large pack causes all charges to be consumed on an Assassin, causing them to get trucked), AND when you reach actual progression where Assassins and Juggs both need Accuracy to hold threat, the Assassin winds up behind on DR.
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No, the primary problem that Juggs face is that most people who chose Tank chose a Jugg, and the majority of players trying to tank in SWTOR don't understand how *vastly different* tanking is than it is in WoW. I've watched fail-Tank after fail-Tank do everything from rotate Taunts (really... wish I was joking, WoW has ruined tanks) to pull with a Taunt to pop CDs on white hits. It's ridiculous. It got so bad that my guild moved me from Heals Officer to Tank Officer and had me reroll (been power leveling - not fun) because that was our best hope of putting competence behind the Tank.
In fact, the primary reason I chose Assassin over Juggernaut was the gearing. We put Sorcerers into our Healing spots, which means we gear them last (we don't use Sorc DPS heavily, as it's not the best and it will get nerfed) as healing is a linear function. We didn't want to put the main Tank on the same token as our Marauders, who form the core of our Melee DPS and are used for their CDs.
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The Jugg issue with threat generation is somewhat over-stated, it's the most played Tank, and therefore people blame the class, which is only partially true, and simply forget that threat is not easy-mode in SWTOR
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I think they accidently mixed up the assassin and marauder.
The sith warrior's storyline even feels much closer to darth maul or that clone wars sith chick (cant remember her name at the moment) than the inquisitory storyline does.
... for the last time, the Sith Assassin isn't based on Darth Maul.
The Sith Assassin is clearly based on Darth Zannah, which makes FAR more sense since Darth Maul is not experienced in Sith Sorcery (he's a Marauder) while Zannah, a far earlier user of the double-bladed lightsaber, relied heavily on short-range Sorcery to win battles. The double-bladed lightsaber allows a defensive style behind which spells can be cast, which was vital during the time of Bane, and obviously existed earlier as certain types of Sorcerers relied heavily on stealth and subtlety.
Prior to Bane, during the time of the Old Republic, and even prior to that, combat sorcerers existed who relied on using Sith Sorcery (including stealth, cloaks, force abilities, illusions and mind control) hence the Sith Asssasin.
Darth Maul was a FAILED assassin, Darth Sidious instilled too deep of a hatred of the Jedi in him, and because of it Maul was overly aggressive, to the point of carelessness. He died because of his love of battle blinding him (he could have easily killed Obi Wan with a lightsaber throw, instead he was enjoying torturing Obi with a slow death, and it cost him his life... he made a similar mistake prior to the events of Episode 1 and almost ruined Sidious' plan by allowing someone who knew of his existence to escape).
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why on earth would you choose a Tank if you want an easy class? Even if your abilities were simple... and they're not... tanks play a role that requires them to have high awareness, mechanics knowledge and responsibility. If you are looking to hit buttons, it isn't the role for you.
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Bin
When his definition of a "good" player is someone who just tunnels a target and DPSes, does it even matter what his definition of a bad player is? He's convinced all class difficulty comes from the amount of buttons you need to press. What do you even say to that?Bingo.
These are the same people who want stuns removed from the game. And whats crazier is they dont discover their own rotations, they go online and copy what someone else tells them to do. So, which is actual skill: positioning, stuns, CDs, tactics, teamwork, fients, guards, pressure and deterrence.... or memorizing a cheat sheet?
These people amaze me, they think that the people who are dyanmic, thinking, aware and adaptible are bad, while tunnel vision dps is good.
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The Sith Assassin is based off of Darth Zannah, not Maul.
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and it also helps the tank/healer shortage
Eh... yes and no.
It helps get more tanks / healers to stay online doing things like dailies by improving our quality of life. Since we don't have to waste a lot of time and money to dps spec, we might be around more doing other stuff instead of playing on DPS alts.
However, the Tank / Healer shortage is really always going to exist, because support personality types are much rarer AND the people who prefer DPS tend to make bad tanks and heals.
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I kill healers constantly as Tank spec. If you can't do it as DPS you're doing something wrong.
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You will need to respec and change gear if you have any intention of being good at PVE tanking.
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Melee are awesome in SWTOR, people just are terrible and expect to be able to shrug off rDPS damage while they try to 1v3 them. I don't use stealth and I dominate ranged DPS in PVP. Learn to use your CDs, stun, work with teammates, interrupt, position, strafe and apply pressure.
If you are consistenlty dying to ranged you are playing poorly.
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I'v looked into powertech a bit and it looks nice. But class with ranged weapon fighting mid/close range doesn't seem to be ok. And ye, tank with a small pew pew gun
looks silly.The Powertech is a melee class, not ranged. You will be better off taking it if your goal is to play with yoir friends. If you take Jugg, you will be competing for gear with your Marauder friend. If your Sorcere friend is a healer, you could also take Merc, but this is less ideal as there is no Imperial Agent tank and you'll have someone sharing gear with a tank later on in flashpoints.
Or just play what you want and don't worry about gear, as it will be a non issue if you pvp or do operations
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Until we get combat logs there's no proof any class is overpowered.
Or broken for that matter
Damage meters are going to make things worse because just like in pvp people will only look at overall damage not single target vs aor. Suddenly we are going to hear that BHs are broken, lethality is op, madness is op, etc...
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More like removing macros so the game requires more than 10 APM for certain classes.
SC2 at a platinum/master level requires 250+ APM or you're typically worthless FYI. 500 is what skilled Zergs can pull during big battles.
Do you not get how that is a BAD THING? Putting the emphasis on input and hand speed is poor design. Starcraft "pros" in fact would lose to worker rushes constantly if it were not for unspoken tournament rule against this. In fact a pro was recently banned from the GSL for probe rushing. All the stuff people claim to like - map control, positioning, unit comps, scouting, counters, etc... are wrecked by APM.
I have about 220 APM and made it to upper Diamond before I became completely bored of 4-gating 95% of my matches.
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Good PVP should revolve around CDs, teamwork, positioning, tactics, strategy and tactics. The idiotic notion that pounding your keyboard as fast as possible should win just encourages drug use (see the interview with sc players admitting to using cocaine, adderall and speed) and de-emphasis thinking. The 1.5s GCD is a good thing. We don't need a game where 15 year olds on drugs are beating 30 year old exlerienced PVPers, because that game will quickly become boring and lose its audience.
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I haven't PvP'd any yet (waiting on a new GFX card before I do). Is the resolve bar broken or something? Because, they way I understand it, the resolve bar is your diminishing return...once full, you are immune for a time.
You need more?
People are just bad. They fight 1v2 and lose, then complain about things that require them to have skills to fight, like stuns, because they don't want to admit they are simply poor players
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This is not intended to be a dumb DPS zerg fest. Lesrn to position. Learn to interrupt. Learn how to use your own slows and stuns. If anything, mezzes should last LONGER and stuns should be even more punishing.
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ugh... another one of these epeen contests? Having a complex rotation or CDs to manange changes the learning curve of your class, but if you're still at the point where that matters, you are not a high skill player. Period.
Making the rotation of every class use the same number of buttons or the same resource systen doean'!t improve the game, in fact it ruins it. There is nothing inheriently wrong with 3 button DPS, not everyone is playing at such a low skill leve lthat rotation determinws the outcome of a match. I would much rather PVP be defined by decisions like positioning, stun usage, guards, heals, passes, fients, and pressurr manangement than by who can hit 10 buttons versus 5.
What the OP is suggesting is like saying Starcraft should remove hotkeys so that only players who have 500 apm can be competitive... yeah, no.
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The sorcerer hate never fails to amaze me. People see that purple lightning and assume all of their incoming damage came from it... ignoring the three other people attacking them. Screw that OPs have better CC, pts and maras do several times the burst damamge or that you actually died from a sniper...
looks silly.
What's up with the Sith Assassin?
in Combat Styles
Posted
What old republic characters are in the movies? Name one. Oh right, old republic take place 3500 years before the battle of yavin, oops. Zannah is literally the prototypical Sith assassin, she infilitrated the Jedi temple, killed Darth Bane, faked the death of the Sith and re-discovered sith force cloaking, mind control, and offensive sorcery.
She is the model for the Assassin in SWTOR, maintaining a whirl of deadly lightsaber blades in combat while casting sorcery at her opponents.