GrandMike
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Posts posted by GrandMike
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Then every Sub based Western MMO but WoW is a total failure, with TOR being the least of these as it's managed to stabilise and avoid the usually inevitable whirlpool of death.
Every game managed to stabilize. Even Vanguard stabilised and its still a epic failure.
And no, not every game is a failure, EvE as prime example.
Rift as good example of clear vision and financial plan based on market analysis.
But weve been through this before and if you didnt get it by now....
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Fact is that this is a very successful MMO.
Maybe not a blockbuster like everyone thought it would be but it is very successful game no matter what think.
Number 2 or 3 as western mmo's are concerned is not a fail sir.
Oooh, yes 300-500m$ game. Results: 2 rounds of layoffs, 2 rounds of server merges form 220+ ->20, massive quittage, F2P in well under the year, EA CEO said its a miss, EA themselves said people think its not worth 15$.
Yah, shining example of epic success
I dont think success means what you think it means.
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So true! You nailed it on the head!
IMHO, the best approach is to go the themepark way at the begining of the game (the story and such) and then smoothly introduce the sandbox features. This way it will be easier to get the players into the game and stay there learning as the time passes instead of dumping all the sandbox stuff and say "you're on your own".
Heh, irony is we proposed this few years before release, BWs idea to make leveling (replayability) interesting by introducing much better quality class quests AND you can hit max level by just doing class story was very good.
We proposed (begged as the time passed) to them they make endgame much more sandboxish because "classic" endgame is stale and has lost all appeal over the years, imaginary carrot by chasing next pair of pants that will make you uber is archaic and people wont stay subbed for THAT.
Of course, forums were filled with so called "MMOers" that insisted game must be made exactly like WoW or its failure from the start (oh the irony) and somehow BW budged, not even just for endgame but for leveling too, as we got crapload of generic low quality MMO quests, quest hubs and what not, and class story is miniscule part of leveling, without any consequences or anything lasting.... It made replayability dreadful.
At one point (now in distant past) BW said that there are 2 kinds of games (Theme park and Sandbox, they called them "Game" and "World") and that they are making a hybrid. Wonder where BW from that time is?
I know, eaten by EA and corporate greed so we got subpar WoW clone that, as expected, failed.
again, why are you paying for this game if you obviously hate it so much?do you sincerely have nothing better to do?
*some more foam* rawr
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Why are you still subbed then?
fail troll is fail.
Yah, as 2,3+m people werent enough a sign rofl.
People voted with their wallets, so you may foam around your mouth all that you want, facts are facts.
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Never seen so much truth posted in a post xD
Pretty much Bioware could turn around tomorrow and fix the problem with the game (Lag , Adding non-raid content like mini games , Same sex romance , Expanded Races and Appearances , and a Full 3D space , more than one way to level a character up to 50 or whatever )
and
You'd just have a completely new group of people finding new things to complain about just as loudly that where the worse company on Earth ,etc etc and they should die and burn .. That just what people do on the internet , it a form of Entertainment .
Soooooooo, its players fault that EA couldnt deliver what they promised to deliver?
Remember THEY repeated many times SWTOR would get 1 content update/month.
THEY were in full control of what kind of game to make, they chose the model (pure Theme Park) in which they either:
a) provide rapid game updates (much faster than fastest existing ones)
b) fail miserably
And, of course, b happened, as expected, and people HAVE COMPLETE RIGHT TO POINT OUT THE STINKER.
Nobody pointed a gun to their head and said "make a WoW clone". It was their OWN CONSCIOUS DECISION and all obligations and responsibilities were known. They failed and get picked on. THEIR OWN CHOICE.
I cant believe someone can defend bad product so fiercely, its really mind-boggling.
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QFT 100% right.
I agree farmville style players NEED to be catered too, but there is NOTHING in SW:TOR for the competative raider, as i said im not what i would consider ultra hardcore, but even our guild had a raiding party of 50's BEFORE early access was finsihed and we had completed NM EV before the end of January!
If there had been at least one or two bosses requiring a few months practice with rewards to suit then we would still be playing, never tune these bosses or the titles they gave, then when new content hits just remove the boss forever, JUST ONE OR TWO BOSSES out of reams of content would not be missed.
These bosses would then become legendary within the lore of TOR. My most vivid memory of WoW was the Vanilla defeat of C'thun (it took six weeks of practice as a 40 man raid), we were the first ally guild on our server to down him and if anyone knows what it took then they know of the pedigree required. My respect to anyone that killed the Sleeper in EQ or C'thun in Vanilla.
Wow, would THAT make you feel important enough rofl
Theres no such content because diverting so much resources to developing content for 0,1% of players is plain stoopid.
Go back to EQ.
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Because they are old and dated?
EQ had hundreds of thousands of subs back when those numbers were actually within the same universe as reality.
1 player subscribed for 2 years is worth 24 players subscribed for a month.
Had...is teh important. As soon as a bit better game was out it crumbled. WoW catered to casuals for the most part. The part that didnt got changed.
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Everquest and UO would beg to differ. Hardcore games still running 15+ years later.
I doubt Bioware, EA or even the most brainwashed TOR supporters would expect this game to be running in 15 years.
Its good if you aim for 5-10k sub. I THINK that EA aimed for more than that.
Sooooo, why arnt all elitists playing those games....since they are "best evah" and are "just as they want em to be"?
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There is a point to this though. Once Blizzard started listening to the whiners and casuals about everything being "to hard" in wow, then massively dumbing everything down. The game started to decline because the top guilds and most active and dedicated players started to quit, the progression of the game slowed because there was no one carrying it forward (or carrying casuals) and it just got boring and easy. It's still in decline.
Not really, "dumbing down" started with BC and it was still in full growth. Elitists were pi**es off at that just as every time afterwards.
One thing Blizz said that they were wrong about vanilla endgame, that it was a failure and they wouldnt do it like that again.
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The elitism argument is dumb guys. Your mom choose your father over some other guy, she is an elitist.....
i only eat chocolate icream because vanilla is too easy, im an elitist?
I speed all the time when i drive, im an elitist?
The man is holdin them down guys, someone help the repressed.
PVE'ers vs PVP'ers vs Elitist vs Sandboxers vs Chat trolls is what it looks like to me.
Elitism isnt only about that, elitism comes with certain kind of behaviour and mindset attached.
Your mom didnt shut herself off and thought she is best evah and put everyone else down, or expected to be admired... because she chose your dad.
etc. etc.
Just read OPs post and you will see what its all about.
Those kind of people dont have an audience any more since noone cares about them any more. Thats the problem. So they move from game to game looking for that audience and cant find it.
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I completely agree. Business failure 101: Not setting a realistic goal and path to that goal. The goal shouldn't be "millions of players", though that would be nice. It should be a profitable and expandable game.
On paper everything looked awesome and EA was preparing to knock off WoW.
In practice it was WoW clone that people rejected (like every one before it) Not enough TOR and waaaaaaaaay too much WoW.
Im not really sure who we have to thank for that, i blame all 3 parties involved equally, though weighing on EA side a bit more.
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ALL the hardcore players left within the first 2 months, then you had the next tier of raiders get bored, then they left, then the next month the next tier left.
Eventually all you had left is what you got now, fanbois, drones and poorly motivated no skill gamers.
HOW is it the hardcore players fault? THEY posted for months on the forums to make things harder to create more open faction conflict to focus on what WORKS in an mmo.
But no, instead developers listened to the casuals, gave them access to ALL content on easy mode (Nightmare mode in SWTOR is easy, what should take months to complete was done in days) Sure the poorer players took longer but even they have completed everrything within a few months.
You cannot blame the hardcore for what has happened to TOR, they tried to save it by posting in beta forums and early access forums that the game is too easy. All i have seen from fainbois and casuals is deluded posts like the game is awesome and nothing is wrong (something i swear the devs see and believe, even when they are sacking staff, closing/merging servers and going F2P within its first year!!). Sadly i still see the devs listening to them, if you read the beta and PTS forums they spell out plainly what needs to be done, they are screwing up F2P model and now the last hope for TOR is the SSSP, all the evidence is pointing to that being messed up too.
It is not the hardcore players that are at fault it is the Devs listening to farmville players wanting to be able to complete ALL content and not be buutthurt too much in BG's etc, do that and the game is a joke.
Game needed >10k subs to survive (it still does)
They tried to please hardcores (better term is elitist, as not all hardcores are elitists, and you are an elitist) but in doing so they screwed the game for everyone else (along with just plain bad design decisions like copying WoW). They still do that - EC NiM and moar gearz - so now you have to troggle through 2 mindnumbing tiers before it.
Noone cares about elitists any more and rightly so. They are bad news for games and communities. Once devs finally figure that out, they can start making games that other 99% wants to play and pay for longer than current model - hit endgame and quit - because endgame does 180 turn to what theyve been doing (and enjoying) up to then to fit "elitist" profile.
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EA was told that same thing for years now.
Endless farming FPs/OPs? lol, its outdated its archaic and people dont want to do it.
But SWTOR is built such way that its more probably nothing can be done about it, they cant make content fast enough, they cant rework their game so they are left of those few who want endless OPs farming and few SW fans that would play it no-matter-what.
As a proof - even EA admitted - people think game is not worth 15$.
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It's not free if you have to pay to get them (resubscribe)...
Dont worry, he has a problem discerning what is free and what isnt.
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Then noone should have a problem should they? The fact is, they do.
They havent spend 2 minutes to lear boss do big attack at 75%. Wow that took a lot of coordination and skill.
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NO the hardcore were posting week after to week to have MORE open world faction conflict, to RAISE the difficulty level on ops and to extend how long it takes to level to 50.
The game has not reflected ANY of these points, you sir are completely oblivious to its problems, as a matter of fact i would say you think the game is a success and perfectly developled.
The game is aimed at poorly motivated players with minimal skill requirements to complete content.
The endgame is aimed at hardcores completely (its another matter do you perceive it succedeed at it or not) and has absolutely NO content for anyone else.
The leveling is a drag as it is, as theres no replayability whatsoever, class content is so sparse that its mindboggling, no RPG, no consequences, no anything.
FP qualitiy drops as you level more and more because hardcores whined all teh story will get in teh way.
...
All because of hardocres.
That is games problem.
They should done what they intended to do from the start instead listening to some hardcores, so instead 2,3m 250k would left, and good riddance it would be.
EQ days are looooooooooong gone, where some kid admired your shiney, people dont give a damn about hardcores any more as people want to have fun for their money.
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Thats defenitely true... but then you can also say this to the people that like to collect art or buy jewellery, buy oldtimers just to have fun driving them and all that stuff that makes live fun but is esenntially not needed.
I personally did not and do not plan to buy cartel coins because for me it is not worth the money... but i totally accept it if someone decides to subsidize the game by buying cc
No it isnt. Things you mention have real value. Cartel Coins do not.
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They did listen to the hardcore...unfortunately. Look where it got them.
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You dont even need Tionesse/Columni. You can do it in recruit PVP gear or you can do it in modded gear from the original dailies. All it takes is coordination. Thats the part the soloers do not have. Thats the part that actually makes it difficult for them. They cant just stand in one spot spamming keys and have only themselves to worry about.
I find myself standing in same spot spamming same 3 keys in group content (well, there is occasional movement involved...yawn) muuuuuuuuuuch more than when solo.
Its mindnumbingly boring i might say. Your class is limited in what you can do, you have ONLY 1 role in group content.
And group content doesnt require any coordination either, ido my stuff, rest do their an done, move on.
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Why do people say that its stupid to buy 600$ worth of cartel coins? If money is no problem for you and swtor is one of your hobbies why is it stupid to subsidize Bioware with this purchase?
The money is not wastet cause it will pay the developers and of course the EA shareholders witch is ... a good thing!
If you want to donate to charity there are many more ways and many more needy people than EA.
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You wiped the floor with them but you are upset you have to do it one more time to get HK. The OP had 3 groups and couldnt complete it. I agree they are easy as sin for people that normally group but they are not for solo players that have little to no experience grouping. There is absolutely no difficult solo content out there. So you are wrong.
There is TON of solo content so difficult that group content will NEVER reach it, in fact group content is as dumb as in any scripted/trinity game out there.
That doesnt even make any sense.I know it doesnt, since you cant seem to grasp that people rejected forced grouping looooooooong time ago.
Epic questline? ROFL, more like dumb old content questline, absolutely nothing "epic" about it.
HK is PURE solo/story content and BW put it behind old group content. How stupid is that, its like they deliberately want to chase away few people that still sub.
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Then why cant you complete a HM mr fact?
Who said i cant complete it ahahahahahahaha
I DONT WANT TO. And yes i walked all over HMs in quest greens/blues back in Jan, and i didnt see you solo any of those, so stop preachin' bro, noone cares.
Skyrim is made for you. You can do it all by yourself!Whoopsie, thats what 2,3+m people DID and SWTOR tanked.
People vote-kicked your opinion.
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Most likely he failed because he kept getting unlucky in the group setup. The GF was probably full of solo players that dont know jack about grouping. These same solo players claim that grouping is easy and soloing is harder so they should get the best gear by soloing too.
Soloing is harder than grouping. Its a fact.
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You only have to do it once for the part. Is that really so bad?
Yes its bad.
find a better groupCorrection, find a better game, SWTOR is going no story grind raids for 6 months for gear, thats also available in immensly better incarnation in other games.
So SWTOR has no strenghts any more.
GG
"F2P may not save SWTOR" -- wired.com
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by GrandMike
raaaaawr
If you are not interested in the topic dont post.
Thank you.