Seriously, this community is a bunch of unoriginal 12 year olds who can't think outside the box and/or cry-babies. Taking a look at the PvP forums, other than this thread, all you see is "WAHHHH NERF SORCS" "MERCS TOO OP NEED NERF PLS". Even in this thread alone, I am disheartened by the sheer amount of knee-jerk, poorly thought out reactions to my suggestion. I can smell your fear. Nevermind that solutions I've already proposed in this very thread circumvent the exact problems you're talking about, but the fact that you joined a PvE server and are now berating PvP is incentive enough for me to want to spawn camp you for days, exclusively out of prejudice. "I'm afraid of open world PvP because they will GANK me!" Well, you should be, because I would gank you. Over and over again. Because I want to bathe in your pathetic tears. If you're afraid of other players, don't play an MMO (or join a PvE server). There's room for people like you, but not here. Not on my server.

I was a Founder, played at launch, and distinctly remember Ilum. Your argument about not needing incentives makes ABSOLUTELY no sense. That's like saying "if you need gear then you don't actually care about raiding." You don't want incentives? Kcool, raids don't drop loot or badges any more and neither does PvP. Incentives are a basic concept in the gamification of anything, and if you want players to do something, you give them incentives to make them run that hamster wheel. Like I said earlier in this post, the problem with Ilum PvP was that other than doing the daily/weekly "kill x players", there was no incentive to be there. They need to be more creative then "kill farm for badges", I just think after the colossal failure that was Ilum the concept of OWPVP terrifies Bioware.

Thanks for catching the reference. Die for Dethklok!!! That's less of an incentive and more of a consolation prize.

Taking a week off of work to play SWTOR. *lightsaber noises*

...I could also imagine the Republic doing the same thing, yes, and it sounds awesome. Population imbalances can always be managed by shards. If you think encouraging PvP is unhealthy for PvP, you need to reanalyze your opinion. I understand that players go the path of least resistance. Which is why when it'd come time to to "farm comms", you make the path of least resistance doing warzones (which it already is). This way, world PvP is encouraged, but warzones are more encouraged, meaning there's no way you could outfarm yourself getting open world PvP kills over doing warzones. Especially if they implemented something like diminishing returns on world PvP comm drops, a cap on comms per time limit, a stacking debuff that grants an increased # of comms for your killer after you've killed so many times, etc... As for the "lowbie planet gank" argument, that's also pretty easily circumvented: players have to be the same level to get comms from each other, or add a pvp "shard" to each planet, or both. Those are just off the top of my head, I'm sure BioWare can do better. There was a mission like that, for Illum. There was a daily and weekly version. I think this is a really boring way to do things, but at least it'd be something...

Before I start rambling, I just want to clarify that this isn't a "gimme! gimme!" *hands outreached greedily grasping at the devs for more* post. I feel like this is easy to implement, and not game breaking in any way. If anything, I'd simply like to hear the arguments against WHY this isn't already in the game, or at least in the works. I love the PvP in this game. It's very fun; nothing is more appealing to me as a player than the clash of lightsabers bouncing off each other, explosions going off everywhere, the cackle of lightning as I electrocute my enemies. I think the CC system is solid. Warzones are really fun (not a huge fan of the new huttball, but that's for another post), & I enjoy my time in them. That being said, it boggles my mind as to why there is absolutely NO incentive for world PvP at all. No valor, no badges; the closest we come to a 'reward' for world PvP are achievements, which might as well come in the form of banana stickers that I put on the dashboard of my ship. Bioware's entire platform for SWTOR is the fulfillment of the 'Star Wars' experience or fantasy. They deliver with this in terms of story, and the combat is also immensely satisfying, making it easy to become immersed in the world around you. Instanced PvP, however, is counter-intuitive to this. It's inorganic; there are very few options the player has if they want to participate in PvP seriously, other than Warzones. Why not give 1 or 2 ranked badges on an open world kill? That would encourage more player organized events, it would make ganking worthwhile, it would create rivalries, partnerships, WARS...all of these things are conducive to a more pro-active player-base that will spend less time offline or running around in circles on the Imperial or Republic fleet. TL;DR ENCOURAGE OPEN WORLD PVP!

Unfortunately, the only way that internal / kinetic / tech damage can be mitigated is by armor. Running 31/0/10, I typically engage, try to stay up as long as possible, and once I see the DoT's starting to stack on me (inparticular the fire dot of doom ala BH/TR), I Force Cloak and vanish to ****. I am in full BM, but like I said, the only thing you can do to mitigate internal/kinetic/tech damage is through armor.

Capital ship battles for the win. You should make it less about the space battles and pew pew lazers and more about boarding enemy (guild) ships. That would sum up my Star Wars fantasy in its entirity

Vox of <Emperium> on the Prophecy of Five server. Look forward to joining you all this evening!

PvP Change: Incentivize PvP in a way that is conducive to both group PvP as well as one-on-one PvP. Why? One of the reasons I play SWTOR almost specifically for PvP is because I find myself trying to replicate that traditional epic one on one duel scenario that you find all throughout Star Wars. Unfortunately, due to the current state of warzones (although fun and competitive) and open world PvP, this is often very hard to accomplish without some kind of outside player interference. Lots of players (such as myself) find it difficult to pull groups together for PvP due to various reasons (awkward gaming hours, guild is PvE-focused, willingly unguilded, etc). This change would allow the solo players to thrive while still contributing to the cause of PvP, whether that be a warzone, open world PvP, or what have you. One on one battles are communally intense on a level completely different than group PvP. 1v1's have the potential to form deep rivalries (and sometimes also bonds, both out of rivalries or out of mutual rivalries), which build player relationships, which makes for better player communities. How? Warzones Let me first start off by saying that I enjoy the warzones in SWTOR. Admittedly, they can be somewhat repetitive at times, however I still find myself getting mad when my team is incompetent (which is a good thing). The current design of warzones is very linear. Wherever the objectives are (doors in Voidstar, turrets in Civil War, ball in Huttball*) is typically* where the action is. What this does is water down warzones to: "Which team has more players/is more coordinated?", which isn't necessarily a bad thing because it provides great team incentive for things like ranked warzones. The flaw with this design is that it tends to shut out players who solo queue in full Battlemaster, and get stuck with maybe a team of fresh 50's. My proposal to make warzones conducive of both group and solo environments would be to add side-objectives that make it viable for players to branch off to the beaten path with something like team or self-specific buffs that hold the potential to turn the tide of a battle. This design allows for the primary objective to still be the center-piece of warzone, but adds a whole new strategic approach to warzones for both the single and group players (and provides a neat new way to earn your Assassin Medal!) Open-World PvP When we look at Ilum's design, there is one factor (in my opinion) holding PvP back, turning Ilum into a glorified fishing contest at choke-point locations like bridges: Ilum is massively horizontal and barren with not a lot of stuff going on vertically or environmentally, attempting to force open world PvP to be in the form of even, head-to-head combat. This puts the outcome of Ilum PvP in the favor of whichever side has the most numbers (in my servers case, Empire), while forcing the minority faction to utilize the Spartan-esque choke point tactic to even the playing field. So how do we deal with the population imbalance? Simple: by evening the playing field across the board. Numbers are virtually insignificant when environmental hazards--such as pitfalls, bridges and even (cough cough nudge nudge) giant space-cores or sarlaac pits--are running rampant in the environment. Additionally, these obstacles wouldn't necessarily have to be deadly; Ilum's tunnels and Jedi/Sith ruins (which I wish there were more of, and on a larger scale) provide a great way for players looking to fly under the radar to get around. Episode I has a great example of an obstacle conducive of both group and single player PvP environments, namely the on-and-off laser-walls in the Qui/Obi/Maul battle (though I'm sure the logistics of implementing this in-game would be subject for multiple conversations and layouts). Provide a real world-PvP objective. "IMPERIAL FORCES CONTROL ILUM!" or "REPUBLIC FORCES CONTROL ILUM!" with a bonus to valor gain for farming simply isn't a good enough incentive for players to battle on the objectives (which are too many, and too spread out). Consolidate the objectives in a centralized location with multiple exits and entrances so battles become more random, personal, and unbiased, while still keeping the player battles within the general area of the objective (which should be, instead of a % increase to valor gain, a consistent stream of valor that is provided to whatever faction controls the objective within a certain radius of the objective). I envision this new objective point to be a multiple level bunker-style base (which you could easily turn into an ancient Jedi or Sith Academy based on the lore of Ilum) that the factions battle each other over in a sort of tug-of-war meets king-of-the-hill battle. This would also probably require the use of those aforementioned environmental hazards to maintain some balance with regards to the population. This design encourages consistent combat over an incentive that cannot be farmed, but rather needs to be defended and maintained WITHOUT having all of the combat occur in the same exact location, but throughout the location. TL;DR Better warzone/world PvP design to provide more one on one duel scenarios which build bonds, rivalries, and make for better player communities. Side-objectives for warzones would provide new, innovative tactics for group queue as well as solo. Population imbalance can be nullified by means of environmental hazards & choke points. World-PvP objectives should be more consolidated (less horizontal and empty; more vertical and dangerous) with various environmental structures such as (more) tunnels, hidden areas/entrances, and (in the case of Ilum) expanded upon Jedi/Sith ruins. World PvP incentives should encourage perpetual back and forth combat to maintain control over an objective, as opposed to zerging control of the objective for the sake of improved farming capability. I really hope this post helps, James! I look forward to the upcoming changes with 1.2, and I am excited for the future of The Old Republic.

Great post, OP. Keep up the good work.

Signed, tab targetting is terrible in this game

HOW TO FIX ILUM: 1. Remove Northern and Southern capture points. Ilum is too pointlessly huge. 2. Utilize all of those cool tunnels you have that lead to nowhere. Ilum's backstory seems pretty open ended in terms of the Jedi and Sith; have the tunnels spiral downward below the center of the map into a Jedi or Sith academy where players battle over an objective in a room(s) with lots of death traps (thinking Qui-Gonn, Obi-Wan and Maul's final battle in Episode 1). Lots of risk of falling, being pushed off, stasis doors (maybe), and stick the objective smack dab in the center. 3. Build on the Republic & Empire bases so they are just North and South base, not faction specific. Make the bases not so linear, but dynamic, with multiple entrances (possibly secret/hidden ones) and obviously remove the auto-kill turrets. Since the bases are no longer faction specific, camping bases won't be an issue. The objective for capping the bases should be an increased stream of valor, commendations, or whatever your end-game PvP incentive will be for 1.2 onward. 4. Throughout Ilum, build on those psuedo-structures you have lying around with no reason to currently be there. Players don't need an enormous incentive to start a fight; putting a usable object in there that grants valor on use or something. People will fight over them. Have them in multiple, scattered locations (and in buildings--we like having our fights in structures) so small skirmishes can occur, in addition to large scale pvp, which would ideally be going on underneath Central. 5. More bridges, more high rises, more reasons to Force Push or Overload or whatever. That's my two cents. Hope BioWare considers this!

Sith Warriors/Jedi Knights need a nerf. Don't get me started on how overpowered this class is. I mean, how OP is a 6 SECOND AOE STUN? Let's. Not forget that they can deal insane amounts of damage, live forever because they have OP defensive cooldowns like taking 99% less damage, and are the most mobile class in the game and win things like Huttball just by jumping to a guy. ***??? Sometimes I attack a warrior or knight, and then they heal themselves for like 5k. ***? While I'm on the subject, nerf healing consumables because I'm too bad to use them myself. On top of all of this, you can be a Juggernaut or Guardian and still hit for like 5k crits. ***? Op. Needs 2 b nerfed. Agents/Smugglers? LOL, SO OP. Its totally unfair that they can open on me with a chain stun and I'm stunned for like 10 seconds while they stab or shotgun me for like, 5000 damage. By the time I'm done being stunned, I'm dead, and I have to type in all caps in general chat to the person who killed me to tell them that they are OP and need to be nerfed. Why would you give a STEALTH class HEALING capability with SUPER BURST DAMAGE? OP. OP. OP. This isn't what I'm used to, and so I'm mad. Incoming nerf needed, Agents and Smugglers. No one else gets leap or pull immune behind, guess what, COVER!!! Stupid. Nerf plz. Troopers and Bounty Hunters are so OP that sometimes I cut myself just to see me bleed instead of having to DPS through that horriyingly OP 55% damage reduction shield that lasts for like 15 SECONDS?! ***?! HEAVY ARMOR, HEALING, AND MASSIVE DPS BOTH SINGLE TARGET AND AOE? Yeah, BioWare really pulled all the stops for this one. Tracer Missle crits me sometimes for like, 5000 damage. ***? NERF. OH YEAH, AND THEY HAVE CC. PLEASE NERF CC, IT IS OVERPOWERED AND MAKES PVP NOT FUN. Ill start fighting a BH/Trooper and get him to half then he just pushes me away and heals himself, ***?? Nerf Troopers and BH's, or I'm unsubscribing. And what about Inquisitors and Consulars? Inquisitors and Consulars are fine, learn to play. PEBCAK

First, let me please just say thank you for making the first valid thread on this forum that I've seen in a long time. Now, I'm in the same boat, except I'm 31/0/10. I cannot kill healers. In warzones (particularly against the Republic, who seems to have a surplus of healers), this is very obnoxious for me, and have often sat there and wondered what I could do. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anything short of having a pre-made, picking a focus fire target, and blowing him/her up with DPS. Also, actually HAVING healers on the Empire would help....

This community is disgustingly stupid.

In this thread, more Assassins QQ because they're bad

Ladies and gentleman, please don't feed the troll. Either that or bad player is BAD.

I think I speak for more than just myself when I say that BioWare needs to stop coming out with ridiculous "New Player Guides", videos about how "great the game is!" and actually pay attention to the PROBLEMS with the game, you know, like the horrendously linear design of Ilum, the numerous bugs that still burden us in the end game and the rest of the game alike. You've obviously confused your demographic. I get that its more about money than it is customer satisfaction at this point, but wasn't it obvious that you need to focus on actually fixing/creating end game content when you found out that most of the people who got to 50 within the first month have unsubscribed due to your total disregard of the community? All the DevTracker shows is that you address and answer the same, stupid drawn out questions asked by idiot players who can't follow basic instructions or learn to play the game, all too frequently without even providing us with any kind of solution to any of your REAL problems, writing it off constantly as a "thank you for your patience" or "working as intended". Acknowledge the incredibly dissapointed hardcore-playerbase you've been losing since January, or I'm going back to Rift.

This, this, a thousand times this.

Seeing a lot of QQ and obvious PEBCAK in this thread, but have noted a couple of decent players: First let me say that I run Darkness, I'm a battlemaster, I've been Darkness since Beta, and I wreck people with it. Let me also say that I have never, EVER been beaten in 1v1 by any other kind of Assassin (or Shadow, respectively). All the people in this thread that tout about Deception being "viable" in PvP, the answer is yes and no. The problem with squishy stealth PvPers is that, unless you have flawless (and I mean flawless) positioning, and know exactly when to enter/exit combat, you will die considerably more than usual, be of little to no value to team fights, will be virtually useless in objective-based PvP (particularly Voidstar and Huttball) and you will (which, by my estimate, most of the people in the game have already done) re-spec Madness, Darkness, or simply re-roll. Sure, your burst is quite good and you are capable of eliminating 1 (keyword: 1) target pseudo-quickly (and if there are healers in the equation, which in PvP there usually are), but is it worth the abysmal survivability, the lack of team value, the marginal room for error? Not in my opinion. TL;DR: Squishy stealther with high DPS output and no survivability? SOUNDS LIKE A PVE SPEC TO ME.....is it viable for PvP? Absolutely. Is it OPTIMAL for PvP? Absolutely not.

So this is about threat, which is why I've asked several times: why aren't you generating enough threat? I have had no issues. And I have l33t dps in my guild.

That's why its a priority rotation, where Saber Strike is highest priority when you are Force starved...no, you won't be able to drop the Energized Shock the second it procs but its still an instant crit with tons of threat and damage output. I really am not sure what the point of this thread is. Priority rotations are obvious. I feel like every rebuttle has been "BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO USE SABER STRIKE BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FORCE" well...yes. That's how it works.

That's why its a priority rotation, where Saber Strike is highest priority when you are Force starved...no, you won't be able to drop the Energized Shock the second it procs but its still an instant crit with tons of threat and damage output. I really am not sure what the point of this thread is. Priority rotations are obvious. I feel like every rebuttle has been "BUT THEN YOU HAVE TO USE SABER STRIKE BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FORCE" well...yes. That's how it works.

Let's start with this. Wither has an 8 second cooldown, but the debuff is ~15 seconds. Discharge's debuff is also ~15 seconds. This means that, unless you're in PvP or trying to generate AoE threat/apply the debuff to other mobs, you shouldn't be using Wither every time it's up. So, assuming you pull with shock > wither > discharge, what else are you trying to use exactly? There is now a 15 second window where you can only use Shock -without- the energize proc approximately 2.6 times. You're a bit energy starved after this roto, but a thrash > saber strike > (if you didn't get energize the first time thrash again) shock should put you were you need to be for 3 stacks of HD, throw another SS in there and you're ready to Force Lightning. No. Wither/Discharge's debuffs are your top priority to apply if they aren't already up. Like I said, the debuffs stay up for 15 seconds. if it doesn't proc, it is still more damage dealt that SS. Once your DW is up, your priorities switch to applying your debuffs. Once the debuffs are up, all you need to do is watch your procs for Energize while you Shock, Thrash, and Saber Strike (listed in order of priority). 15 seconds later, pop another DW, throw up your Wither, Discharge, rinse and repeat. I don't get your logic, no offense. No, 6 seconds isn't a long time. If your Shock hits for ~1800, its your highest damage + threat single target ability, and you have the -potential- to use it every 2-5 seconds, why not utilize that potential, ESPECIALLY when you have the appropriate time frame of a 15 second debuff window? Why rush to 3 stacks of HD? Its OP. We heal ourselves for upwards of 500 a tick (~2000 self healing total), deal upwards of 6800-7000 damage (done this with Recklessness), and slow them all at once. Why WOULDN'T you want to rush to 3 stacks? Flaw? No. We have a priority rotation. Its pretty easy to figure out. Your argument is that a priority rotation is flawed because we have an energy management system? I have no problem holding threat, I have no problems keeping my debuffs up, I have no problem proccing Energize. And when Thrash does NOT proc energize, I still did more DPS than I could have with Saber Strike, and the chance TO proc Energize outweighs the priority of considering re-applying Wither (if the debuff is still up).