I am unclear at why Powertechs think that other classes dont die equally fast as them when focused. 1v1 you can burst down anyone faster than they can burst you down. Some matches are the worst imbalance in the game assuming equal skill (PT versus Sorcerer is silly). Marauder is your only 'counter' due to their defensive cooldowns. Even then a good PT can semi kite melee. Ive seen PTs 1v2 with ease - burst does that. Granted marauders and tanksins can do that too but they arent in the perfect spot either. I get the highest numbers on my Lvl 45 PT with ease. Two WH Pyros in guild always dominate the scoreboard in kills and damage by a good 100-200k. Now you may say that in full ranked that this will change. Err stacking Powertechs with taunts and guards and healing means they will be unstoppable. They will FOCUS you down before you can focus them. No arguement. Stacked its the most ridiculous class at the moment. Perhaps the relic/adrenal change may help that but Im skeptical.

Your posts make me laugh. Still havent worked out if your a troll or not. So much rage over a game is lol. I agree the general standard of play is poor. I expect that to improve in ranked. It doesnt mean that YOU are good. Own in ranked then come back and spew your drivel. In a MMO god like reflexes get you...only as far as the GCD... Best Heal Abulity: Resurgence Best Single player survival ability : Creeping terror Best Multiplayer Survival ability: Overload+electric bindings (rather have the knockback + root than a clunkly backlash) Best DPS ability: Death Field Best Gamechanger: Extrication Overall: Depends on your spec.

Your comments made me lol. I have never seen someone infer something so opposite to what was demonstrated to serve his own viewpoints. Now lets try and improve your comprehension. 1. I said I can do up to 650k currently (probably more if the stars shine) with a large proportion of that spread dmg. Death field has a 15 sec cooldown and if you spread too much afflicition you'd be OOF very quickly. Now run your test dummy and check how much of our single target dps is affliction/CT/DF. The major component of our dmg is still FL - burst in 1/12/28 is DF+LB proc while in 3/7/31 is CD+FL+DF +AF. Thats plenty burst and single target. Yes our numbers are padded but seeing as that padding puts pressure on healers at such high numbers - even if you take off 40% of 650k you brings us in line to a lot of single target dps - and is the reason CL was nerfed. There was no contradiction here - I clearly stated that I can do a lot of spread dmg but can still focus burn targets, 2. Check out our parasitism talent. Self healing from that in high dmg games is well over 100k - dots and DF are single target too. Yes opposition healers dont cleanse but I dont see that changing that much in ranked ( few sorc healers taken). 3. I love your view from the high horse that your sitting on. To know how all MMOs 'should be balanced' based on how they have been (poorly) balanced before. Go back to Wow and EQ if thats what you want as clearly thats not the major priority of BIoware as they have repeatedly stated that this is as close to target as they have been. Your (limited) vision on whats correct is largely irrelevant. We are not weak and easy kill only in certain situations . We need a higher skill cap to play and the use of line of sight and roots/ escape without mistake. Marauder in that aspect is a lot more forgiving. 4. Your view that a turret playstyle is the only viable option for a ranged dps class is getting old. Yes we dont have competitive single target 'burst' dps anymore. We have plenty of control and utility to make up for this in other specs. I feel in any spec I influence a match heavily. As you said its not about numbers at the end of the day. The only one taht counts is victory for the team. You quite clearly want Sorcerers to be highest burst dps just because we have light armor. You are entitled to that opinion ( thats been the pervading theme in previous mmos). I believe that all dps should reach similar targets which according to BW's metrics they are - dont believe their PT ones though:p 5. Having said that a viable lightning tree would help a lot of sorcerers as like you thats the playstyle they signed up for. Unlike you I dont believe we are entitled to it because we have light armor or because thats how they did it before. The thing I liked about BW balancing prior to 1.2 is their focus on DMG V Survivability V Usability. Some classes hit harder faster but need tools to deliver that dmg/survive. For us we have plenty of tools in the Usability department to deliver dmg or survive. 1.2 screwed that up because the TTK makes us a lot weaker than we could be. We suffered exponentially more here by losing both instant CL burst AND the reduction in TTK. 6. As madness I can 1v1 most classes fine. Even superior is the 21/2/18 build for 1v1. I made that clear. We are not designed as the best 1v1 class currently as you rightly pointed out we probably have the lowest burst. There is no black and white on are we or are we not a 1v1 class - to make this arguement again is silly. We CAN 1v1 some classes easily but most classes not so easily. Other classes are a LOT stronger in 1v1. Our strongest 1v1 specs are full madness or hybrid healing. There is no contradiction here. I agree with you we need to make our lightning tree more viable (more mobile and heavier TB dmg) but this would be a QOL change in usabilty again not in damage. Much like carnage was buffed. Now try and see the bigger picture and try some other specs like I've mentioned and try different playstyles. I used to be blinkered like you but we really arent as bad as you make out. We are middle tier currently. WIth lightning changes we'l be back to top tier as majority of sorcs are comfortable playing that turret spec as they feel focused single target dps is the way to go in group pvp. Its going to be difficult as much of the tree is aoe. PS. To the guy above this one - i tried pugging without using undying rage/camo - died a lot with barely 150-200k dmg. Without cooldowns marauders are useless so their tweaking needs to be done very subtly or by a global increase in TTK ( I underline i dont think they need a nerf). I honestly dont think reducing healing by 99% during UR will make that much difference to the class and will probably end a lot of the QQ - Force Camoflage is a LOT more important to the marauder. With cooldowns I get around 300k on average a game in a single target spec. This goes up by another 100k + in a decent premade. Sorcerers pugging I can do plenty of dmg and in premade a hell of a lot more. The irony is that I dont see marauders with less deaths in the Death column than anyone else. In fact I find it easier to not die as a sorcerer than as a marauder. A marauder doing his job and sitting on the healer will die sometimes as you will use you often def cooldowns to increase uptime not to reset and survive. If the opposition are sitting on your healer too this evens out.

First of all aside - people who have to resort to correcting grammar to underline their One-upmanship are abhorrent. Its actually is 'Your' - 'your presumption' not 'you are (you're) presumption'. If I used presumptive, you would be correct. However, it is indeed You're ruining the game' in my last line. Well done. /golf clap Anyway back to the meat of the post. Whether I am deluding myself or not I will be happy playing my sorcerer in premades. Why? Because I like the flexibility that the 21/2/18 spec offers and/or the control of the 3/7/31 spec. I also believe I can strategise more effectively to lead my premade as ranged. Would I excel with the marauder? Sure. Doesnt mean its the best option for the team. Rather than focus on what I intend to do or not perhaps you should play another class and compare its strengths before qqing about how weak we are or strong they are? Perhaps it would help your credibility. Oh no you wouldnt do that cos that would make you a FOTM reroller..../sigh As to why I put 'from a Sorcerer' - its a common theme that we are one of the weakest 1v1 classes right now so err...maybe that would draw more attention and drive more discussion than say a powertech/tankasin going 'Marauders are fine'. Seriously, posters like you rather get personal than have an objective discussion. The scourge of MMos.

Actually I rolled the marauder and leveled to about 40 pre 1.2 but regardless why the aggression? My sorcerer is Valor 80 in mainly augmented warhero. It is still my 'main'. I've invested most time in time in him and il likely use it in 21/2/18 build for ranked premades (its an awesome multiplier build). Your presumption and bitterness is a trend on these forums. Seriously anyone who doesnt defend their own precious class is called all sorts of names rather than being appreciated for seeing the bigger picture. Your ruining the community aspect of this game.

Actually if you read my post correctly I said in PUG play (usualy versus premade) if i was trained by several marauders like I am often I can still put out 300k dmg by kiting - thats worst case scenario. If i was focused by the multitude of new snipers and PTs I see as a marauder my dmg goes right down - yes i can reset with force camo but without healing thats still lesss uptime. Yes much of the sorcerers dmg is spread dmg but I still focus burn targets. In a decent premade I can get up to 600-650k in a long game. Hell I'l do that as 1/12/28 spec without any defensive abilities. On marauder I can get to around 400k max single target dmg annihilation. Anyway I hated your statement re we should be the glass cannon blah blah and holy trinity and sacrificing survivability and ranged having the best dps. Its such a small minded cookie cutter view. We have light armor so we should do the best dps ( I do do the highest numbers in both objectives/dmg/selfhealing but thats because I know my class and when to do what) - thats bollocks. I cant believe you want melee dps to have half the damage of ranged! Thats lol! True class balance is the capability to fill your role evenly trading surviability for damage OR utility. Not Rock Paper Scissors. Otherwise MMos will never evolve. It sounds from your post that you want a turret playstyle - go sniper then as currently until our lightning tree is truly viable (its by no means unplayable as is) thats the best option. You are flat out wrong that Sorcerers are underpowered. We arent a 1v1 class. With CL we were - we could 1v1 anuyne without counter. Reroll if you want one of those now. Get some War hero/ go Power Surge (3 piece Mystics/2 Piece master(or stalker chest) - go 1/12/28 (if you have mana problems) or 3/7/31 if you dont and really pressure the opposition. If you want more utility go healing 21/2/18 - our best single player 1v1 spec. Watch some Videos (Remedy's does illustrate some good techniques if against poor players and the guy being a bit of a douche - /s you suck fighting someone naked is not big or clever ). No offence but your arguement appears weak. And you can check some of my past threads where I was QQing about marauders and learnt that the grass isnt always greener. PS to the guy who attacked the one who mentioned dropping combat - the cooldown he was talking bout was saber ward not COP.

Now like a lot of my brethren Sorcerers used to think marauders are overpowered. Partly it was the fact that they were our counter and we cannot afford to make any mistakes and they have the edge with cooldowns up. So I leveled one and PVPed at 50 to figure them out and wanted a different style ( more in your face than kiter). PUG play Marauders are absolutely fine here - i tried not using undying rage or Force Camo - and I was massacred. Focused down and CCed fairly easily. In those sorts of games on my Sorcerer I manage 300+k dps easily even when im being trained. On marauder I managed much less and had much less control. Premade Play A lot more dangerous with healing but still CCed appropriately and nuked down. Was getting up to 400k dmg though but this was on par with enemy snipers and sorcerers but less than powertechs. Deaths at end were similar to every other classes. At the end of the day I felt that without the defensive cooldowns marauders would be pretty useless. I think the only way to solve the marauder ( and more importantly Powertech) problem is to either improve healing expertise or reduce the TTK in some other way. Honestly I feel both Marauders and Sorcerers are fine. Im going to level my 40 Powertech more now but I feel more OP on this one than i ever did on other two. My two cents.

And you dont see 818k damage as a problem? This is vastly above the damage potential of most classes. Biowares metrics are obviously consistently showing Pyro PTs top of the tree even with large amounts of deaths - they are on my server and I envisage with all the QQ here on other servers too. And no i dont believe Pyros a heavy armor putative tank class were designed to have the Highest Burst and end damage in PVP. I do think Bioware is aiming for some parity in all dps classes. Yes they need burst dps in terms of their lack of survivability cooldowns. They don't need to however burst down classes in 4 GCDs. I understand bias for your own class but the inability to see the bigger picture on this forum is horrendous. Ive played level 50 Marauder Powertech and Sorcerer (main). There is clearly a balance issue. And I dont think 8 man organised protective peeling PVP will compensate. Marauders have too many defensive options whilst powertechs ranged attacks mean kiting them as ranged is infinitely tougher and good ones can kite melee too. A hybrid ranged/melee class should not have so many hard hitting options. Out of the three PT Pyros are easily the lowest skill cap at the moment and poor FOTM players are excelling. FOTM marauders generally all suck. So try and justify all you want but no class should be able to have so much single target burst and aoe spread damage to make up 818k in a warzone post 1.2. You may argue Rage juggers and Sorcerers may get close (ive not seen it - most ive got post 1.2 is around 600k) but thats generally poor positioning for the first and poor cleansing dots /focusing for the second. The reason they shouldnt? Well thats why dps Sorcerers instant Chain Lightening was nerfed.....If they destroyed the heavy aoe dps and medium single target burst of a light armor squishy class with some utility options what makes you think they would not do a toning down for you? In this I hope at least Bioware are consistent.

This is a difficult one. Valor level 79 on my sorcerer and I can definitely understand our classes weaknesses. However, most of the time I still dominate and unlike pre 1.2 I have to work for it. For example in 3 warzones (Hb, VS,CW) last night I did about a total of a million dmg 100 Kills and one death. I kited my *** off and ran like a ***** when required. I was top dmg, Kills and Objective points each time. I wasnt left alone but I wasn't trained like I normally am. When im trained on by two powertechs ( a few sick ones on our server) or marauders I usually die fast. Even One powertech I die relatively fast. We aren't a 1v1 class anymore and when these big hitters are around I struggle. Im easily identifiable with FL coming out of my hands and knowing I can do sick dmg unchecked im either running or dead. This isnt a fun playstyle at all (I then jump on my 45 marauder destroy face rarely having to run and am calm again:P) as escape at times is nigh impossible. Now is the issue Sorcerers are too weak or is it certain melee classes have too much of an upperhand on them at times. I certainly dont feel weak and with a good tank and healer with me Il survive the marauder trains most likely. I dont think il survie two pyro powertechs even guarded and healed. They just appear too strong at the moment. As an addendum Im curious to see that of the FOTm marauders at 50 very few are actually any good while the Pyros PTs still seem to do great dmg even when crap and the good ones are gods. So in conclusion I think certain classes need to be brought back a notch to give Sorcerers a more even chance. I dont think Sorcerers need direct buffs although a viable turret playstyle for the Lightning tree would be appreciated much as was done for carnage and rage for marauders. Id like to see how ranked pans out in full WH gear before anything definitive although i predict we will be high up on focus target lists as I doubt we would last long focused (likely die in a stun pull).

Think of it as competitve end game content equivalent to end game raiding. For true PVPers rolling a pug as part of a premade is not fun and vice versa. Queing 8 man with guildies/friends that know how to pvp against similar groups is fun, rewarding and exciting. Otherwise its the same grind - worse now with falling server populations - with very limited fun. They need to address 1) Cross server Queing/Server mergers or transfers asap 2) Sort some class balance issues (not much to be done here but definitely some tweaking) 3) Introduce a separate 8 man queing system 4) Subsequently introduce a matchmaking system for this 8 man queing - Hey presto Ranked warzones. Im not to bothered about the rewards but I do think that there should be some gear incentive for high ranking - even if its smaller than BM to WH and takes longer it would be a nice carrot on the stick. Everyone likes a new shiny and MMos are about gear progression.

Your logic assumes you can make up the class imbalance with skill. You play the two absolute strongest pvp classes at the moment. I'd like to see you destroy a moderately skilled Powertech with a sorcerer. I've played all 3 and post nerfs there's no way sorcerer can compete 1v1 especially with Powertech.

My personal experience of madness in GROUP pvp is poor. Nearly every single person who has posted reporting how good Madness is in this thread have indicated Warzone numbers or 1v1 play. It's very easy to think your doing very well because you have high numbers or you have kite killed that pesky marauder. In madness I was easily getting 400- 600k most warzones (300k hut balls - you should not be getting more here unless your not objective farming or the enemy team suck and group up). I was pleasantly surprised by the damage and had great survivability and was a beast 1v1 with LOS. My only real contribution to group play was the burst of DF and use of CT at opportune moments to save healers or root full resolve ball carriers. All in all as Madness I don't feel I'm contributing to GROUP PvP enough - too much ineffectual spread damage. Force was a major issue as well - if the design of the tree is to dot everything why aren't our dots more force efficient for pvp? The designed play style is then just to dot you're one target and force lightening spam which lets face it is extremely weak in focus play. Currently I'm running the 1/17/23 Effusion lightening storm deathmark build. I have no force issues with one point in effusion. Lightening barrage pops every cooldown so I have great double dip burst with Deathfield. I can burst healers down now. I have an aoe knock back root and a shorter cooldown force speed to escape. All in all I feel much more useful to the team in this spec. Yes a lot of my damage is still dotting everyone but that's to get the proc to burst. Damage is similar numbers but much more burst. In addition I use force storm on groups for big chain lightening procs. Significant added pressure if situational. I think the spec is very viable and in terms of our most viable PVP spec at the moment. It's not that boring as you are watching procs of Lightning storm and deciding when an instant LS maybe useful rather than recasting the higher dmg FL. At the mOment I'm considering moving the point in crit to CD to add around 10% dmg over all to it. I'm not sure which is the stronger. The only other viable alternative in my eyes is the hybrid heal variants of 21/2/18. Another very strong group spec. I do agree full lightening needs tweaking with a stronger filler and 31 point talent. Not that much work:) However I still feel very much viable currently. Most ranged dps have a filler do I'm not sure why people are complaining so much about spamming TK//FL? I do understand the problems with madness though.

2 not so mutually exclusive factors: 1.PVP Formula Balance: Healers need to be part of a team now to survive and thrive. Guards, CC and peeling. Although they overdid the expertise nerf (especially added to the significant nerfs to sorc and mercs), good healers and Tanks will do well. I think it just needs another tweaking of the formula by increasing healing and mitigation and not even by much . Then the balance for healing and TTK will be just right. 2. Class balance - These are just my personal opinions from warzones and dueling the more popular classes. From a personal point of view Sorcerers need a burst damage tree as now they are pretty in-effectual for Ranked Premade PVP. Why take a low burst dps class when your focusing targets? Powertech pyros on the other hand have a huge amount of burst dps - so much so that I am destroyed most of the time without many options. Ive seen them take 1V2 easily and frequently in the time it takes for me to kill one. I believe they need to reduce the damage co-efficient on some of their abilities perhaps rail shot. Marauders - I have no problem with their damage actually - even Ravage buff. I think for them its a simple adjustment based on reducing healing taken during undying rage by a certain percentage between 50-99%. Tankasins need a slight (burst dps) nerf again likely with coefficients. Nothing huge but definitely a tone down when their survivability is so high. Mercs To me they seem quite balanced. Very vulnerable to interrupts when not Pyro and damage seens reasonable for what they give up They do have decent burst on demand. Snipers Very good balance in my opinion. Great on demand burst and cc. Juggernauts Rage sas great burst and Vengeance decent burst and great sustained at the moment. Strong class but doesn't seem that Overpowered in view of their damage mitigation cooldowns are not on par with marauders. Operatives Still great burst from stealth but low survivability once the blow their load. Low mobility and kitable. Fair balance imo. Healers - Operative>Merc>Sorcerer at the moment imo. Purely based on individual survivability. So in summary not that much tweaking to make PVP great again. If they don't tweak I think we'l see a lot of Marauder and Powertech heavy teams. /shrug Edit: only class that comes anywhere near to killing in 4 seconds is Pyro Powertechs - 2 of them have killed me in a stun with rolling dots and railshot crits. One of them on a sorcerer can take 5-6 seconds if everything crits. Im full Bm of course.

I didnt say i didnt have ANY problems with marauders but i can either kill them or kite them into a pack to be killed. Admittedly that reflects more on the marauder than me as they should be wiping the floor with sorcerers. Powertechs have the same one stun and one mez comb we have and a spammable slow but are in a heavy armor and also have a damage mitigation cooldown admittedly on a long timer. It doesnt justify their extreme burst damage but thats just my opinion. Burst damage is not fun for anyone - takes skill out of the game - but regardless Id just like to know how to actually handle one with any degree of success. I cant seem to escape them even with my shield sprint knockback slow and its really irritating me. They also of course go for me first knowing im squishy and can do serious damage if unattended.

Well 1.2 is here and I've finally settled on a 1/17/23 spec which I'm pretty happy with. Hitting 500k dmg VS (84 kills 28kbs no deaths)with DF and x2 LB making the spec more burst and less spread dmg. Although I was getting similar numbers madness and the control was good I really struggled with force and burst. I'm afraid I found CT most underwhelming to my play style - situationally useful at best. Anyway back to the point of this post. There are a couple of ridiculous Powertechs on the server that hit 400-600k every warzone. Soloing one of them I am down in 3-4 global cool downs. With both I'm down in one. Even with a guard I'm struggling at times. They seem to have silly amounts of burst damage for a heavy armour class. Does anyone have any tips to fight them? I tend to spam slow every cooldown and stun them and run like crazy while dotting them up. In full BM gear I get blown away - even marauders can't kill me that fast (presumably as I can cleanse their dots and mez undying rage). Every other class I can handle including marauders (most are bad and I play one so know when to time my abilities and when to kite). It's classes like these that make me a bit bitter - true canons and not that glass like in heavy armour either while we sit as a sustained dmg utility class. Any help would be appreciated.