nDjiin
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Posts posted by nDjiin
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I wish I knew more about the Shield Tech Tree, but I play a lot of classes and as such have only really used it in a hybrid DPS role. What I will say though is the other tank classes are better suited to PvP, due to the way in which damage can be mitigated (the 3 classes doing this in different ways). The ability to be holding a node and then stealth out and return to stop a capture can not be over looked either.
The nerf to the ST's DPS should have been handled differently with a restructuring of the tree, rather than an out and out nerf of the overall damage %'s to stop the use of certain hybrid builds.
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I think everyone can agree that ALL melee classes should have a means of getting thier DPS down in a manner that is no better than any other class - that is why the PT is getting a range nerf but at the same time means they MUST get a closer.
I have looked at several options (swapping grapple etc), but the one that makes the most sense and effects the other trees the least is having Jet Charge as a Powertech learnable ability rather than a skill that is specced into.
I know there are people out there that have had a bad time with the powertech and as such want a 'revenge' nerf,but at the end of the day, what is best for the game is what needs to be done. Having a broken class that cannot reach its target in time is not good for this game or any other.
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As much as I would hate to give up grapple, the fact is a closer is an absolute necessity.
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The 8/5/28 PT build will be a lot more useful in 1.4, as Ex Dart and Rapid Fire will be getting used a lot more, the 3 points on Steely Resolve will come in very handy.
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I really would like a dev to read this thread and comment on what we are saying - there are some very insightful posts that need to be read before deciding what needs to be changed with regards to class 'revamps'.
These are the people you need to listen to - the players that have obviously put a lot of time into not just playing the game but understanding the mechanics of it also.
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You are a melee class with a plethora of ranged abilities to sustain some damage while out of range/gap closing.
The only melee that comes close to doing 30% of their damage while OOR is the golden child of the devs, the watchman sent/
Shadows do zero damage @11m if infil, more if balance.
Operatives can do maybe 10%, more if fly-by is off CD.
Non-Watchman specced sents/mara's have their throw.
Juggs have saber throw, dots (if specced)
so once again, your doing 30% of your damage while I do nada. Yes i have sprint/charge to get back into melee range but then im consigned to doing less dps and less damage overall when I get there with more set up.You don't need a gap closer.
and i really had to LOL at stealth being a gap closer in pve.
I really have to ask, If your topping the meters (or coming bloody close) without a charge, why do you need it?
OK let me break this down for you one more time - Currently Powertechs are able to stay with in the 5-10% tolerances for the difference between class DPS.
With the new update we will lose approx 50% of our ranged DPS - which will drop us below the said tolerances set out by the game devs / BW this year.
A gap closer will bring us back on target.
Not sure why this is so hard to understand.
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If I continue to use my PT as my main, I will be using AP (Assuming they go ahead and make the Pyro tree worthless). My only issue is the amount of mods / enhancements I will need to swap out -as I was stacking a lot of power (for the DoTs on the pyro build).
Can anyone give me an idea of how much crit I will need to be stacking to make the AP build effective?
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They need to make Jet Charge a trainable ability that is available to all powertechs, instead of a skill that can be specced into by tanks only. It really is that simple.
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I actually think it's nowhere near enough, how can a rakata geared (not optimsed) toon pull nearly 25% more than a fully optimised one? and then ahve the temerity to cry about having no gap closer? Heres a hint, if you are trashing other classes in operations without a gap closer at present you must be pretty damn close to being balanced.
You still have plenty of damage while out of meelee range.
Full auto.
Hammer shot + DOT.
Dots applied earlier.
HiB.
Why do you need a charge again?
Currently in operations a Pyrotech Powertech is about average when compared to other DPS classes. That is when we are able to use the pre nerf abilities to keep up our DPS (to about 60% of what we can do at melee range).
After the nerf we will be reduced to below 30% (what we get from our DoT and Rapid fire). So that is our DPS redcued to more than half every time we are more than 10m away from a target - which is a hell of a lot in some boss fights. In Pvp it will be all the time if your opponent has even half a clue how to fight.
So please understand that I am not trying to keep an OP class unchanged - I merely trying to make sure that a class isnt broken without at least doing my best to make sure the developers know what they are doing.
SWTOR has a lot of Poweretchs & Vanagurds, and I cannot see them continuing to play a class who's DPS is below what is needed to pass an enrage timer (this issue is made even more of a problem in the new content when in progression raids). At best they will change classes - which means we will once agian have less of a class mixture (which is not good for any game) or at worst decide that it is not worth playing SWTOR anymore and move on.
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If you're happy that an AC got nerfed that you have no clue how to fight, then say so. But don't come on here and say that we are just fine when you know next to nothing about the class.
Couldn't have put it better myself (did he even read my original post?)
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I think the adjustments to Powertech/Vanguard are fair enough myself. Since they are tank/ DPS OT class should they really be ranged too? I think not. May take a little readjustment, but this is a change for the better. After all if want to play ranged DPS simply choose Merc/ Comm at lvl 10.
That is not what I am questioning - I agree with the ranged nerfs - they shold beone or another - what I am saying is that PT's need to be treated as any other melee class (if they are not seen as a melee class, then why nerf the range?). They need to be given a range closing ability to get into combat like any other melee class.
Take it from someone that has played this class since beta - if this goes ahead then the class will be broken and you have to ask yourself 'if they can do this to this class, what are they capable of doing to any other class - and other aspects in the game'. At which point you need to think about if you want to continue to invest time and money in a game that has developers that are so short sighted they have almost no idea what constitutes to a game breaking mechanic change.
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I've been a firm believer of this for a long time, since the days of the Carolina Parakeet spec. When that spec went the way of its namesake, I favored Assault because of its range. It allowed me to be more mobile on the field without the leap.
I'm not a fan of these changes, I won't sugar coat that. I feel the developers are making a horrible mistake. Nevertheless, my Trooper is my main and I love the class. Like I did after the extinction of the Carolina Parakeet and the Iron Fist specs, I will move on and continue to dominate the battlefield. The haters will continue to hate, as they have since 1.1.
Having had the opportunity to fight and defeat Hard Mode Kephiss, I don't feel this is an accurate assumption. While the classic opener of Incendiary Round-High Impact Bolt-Assault Plastique is gone, I still found myself within the 10 meter range rather quickly during that encounter. During the Walker burn phase, I would still get Incendiary Round on it ASAP as the 12-second DoT last the whole duration its down.
I understand what you are saying, but there are situations in which you will need to get from one one of the field to another - say for example* the bomber cannot be pulled (for what ever reason) and the DPS need to travel the 25m or so to burn him down - do u think having 1 or more of the DPS out of range for 50% of the short time you have to kill him before it explodes would have been OK back when EC was a progression Raid? Of course not - the bomber would explode every time - and that is what we are going to see in the TFB, if BW are allowed to leave the class changes as they are.
*and this is not the only example (also after finishing the droids at the beginning of the encounter, moving to get into range when Kephis jumps, running between the 2 'rail shot' droids....etc. And this is only 1 boss encounter.
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I do not understand how they can make the PT / VG into a melee class then not give us the skills with which to play the role effectively. There will be up to a 25m distance when we will have to rely on our 'free' rapid shot to put down some damage while we attempt to clse the gap. Even if the DoT is procced, one good cleanse and thats all over too.
What they have to do is make the Jet Charge / Strom (from the tank tree) a powertech / vanguard ability that is trainable from approx level 18. This will give us a closer that is enjoyed by every other melee class. If they dont do this then it will be very easy to keep our classes at bay, stopping them doing any useful DPS.
In PvE this problem is even worse - any boss fight that requires movement (Kephiss for example), we will see proportionally large amounts of time where we are effectively doing no DPS. In progression level raids this is unacceptable and the DPS VG/ PT will have no place in an end game line up. I realize there is a small boost to speed in the AP / Tactics tree but that really is not enough, and then what do assault /pyros do?
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You are completely right - the Powertech DPs trees are in need of some serious work - but exactly that - SERIOUS work. Not what they are giving us here - whats the point of breaking a class past the point of it being competitive (and I dont expect to be picked for end game raids if the suggested update goes ahead).
They stated that they were going to be made into a pure melee class - thats great - no one wants an OP class that can do a great deal of damage ranged as well as crazy damage at melee range. SO I say keep the prososed changes but in addition do the following :
Remove Jet Charge from the Shield Tech Tree - make this a Powertech ability that can be learned at level 18 or so. I was thinking of there being an issue with having this ability and hydraulic overrides (on the AP tree) but tbh there are classes with greater mobility than this would give so I say leave it in as a great boost to the underused AP tree.
its is as simple as that - you have given us the range of a melee class, now give us the tools with which to play the role effectively. It really is not a big ask (plus it would make the class soooo much more interesting to play - we have been begging for something more from the class since beta) - so please BW Devs - step up and steer away from picking one class to throw to the wolves each patch. There is no need for it.
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Seems to me pyro will be more of a PvE spec in 1.4. However, AP is quite bloated, especially if you go down the retractable blade line.
Pyro will not be a pve spec in 1.4 - the lack of a closer means that DPS down time (due to lack of ranged attacks) means that they will not be viable as a DPS tree (or even a class imo) - they really need to let PT's have Jet charge as a standard skill and not one that is only available to the tank tree.
I mean is it too much to ask - for a melee class to be able to attack its target ?
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From a COMPLETELY PvE standpoint, I'd love it if they tweaked the range, spread, and damage of Mortar Volley/Death from Above to match the major AoE attacks of the other classes (Orbital Bombardment/Freighter Fly-by, etc.). But God knows what that'll do to those poor, miserable, suffering PvPers, right?
On the whole they dont care what happens to those who PvE - so I wouldnt lose too much sleep over how it effects them
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I am hoping that they haven't given us the full list of changes, like they have in the past. Otherwise they have done a very strange job of balancing the classes - which for the first time in a while, I thought they were starting to do a good job of it.
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Let's just be honest here, this was a needed change.
Powertech has obviously been a melee-heavy class since launch, with some ranged abilities thrown in due to their lack of defensive CDs that other melee classes have. In PvE, DPS classes don't take much damage in a group setting, so it's a moot point for PvE. Pyros need to be in melee range for all aspects of the spec to work properly anyway.
The major unbalance was in PvP, where Pyros always wind up with top damage will little risk. This coming from someone who has played PT since beta. Pyro is so easy to play, a child could do it. With a proper rotation, your target can be nearly dead by the time you close the gap to melee range. PvP is all about burst damage, and Pyros do it easier than any other class, to the point of ridiculousness. Now they will have to actually put themselves into the fray with other melee without being able to have a free 50% HP reduction on their target before closing the gap.
I was mainly referring to PvE, and as a strong PvE'er I can assure if left like this then the class will be pointless as DPS.
With regards to PvP, yes they can do too much surge. I can see that the distance that the powertechs can begin their attacks was too high and they have addressed this - which I agree with. But I never thought they would just leave it at that. I mean, its ludicrous to think that this is the final build for the powetech - why would they even have the pyrotech tree if they have decided to nerf it to that extent. And the AP tree is going to be only marginally better imo as they at least have hydraulic overdrives - letting them get in to range a bit quicker.
I had let myself believe that they were going to redesign the class in a way that makes it interesting to play and not be OP in pvp. So I am making this thread in the hope that someone reads it and sees that they need to do something about it.
I will be sorry to see my first character become unplayable but I am one of the fortunates in that I have another equally geared DPS class to fall back on - but not everyone is lucky enough to have the time to have done this. What are they going to do?
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Having read the patch notes I must say that I am now troubled by what you have done to the class. You have made it a full melee class, but instead of adding the skills that every other melee class you have actually reduced one of the 2 limited ways it has of getting into combat. I am of course talking about that lack of a closer.
All other melee classes have a way of getting to a target quickly (the operative only had stealth but will have a 6 second sprint come 1.4). The grapple is of no use in PvE and resolve makes it useless half the time in PvP. The only thing that we had going for us was a 50% slow - also useless in PvE (I am talking about boss fights) but that wasn't too bad as we could use certain skills to keep DPS up - but that is not longer an option either.
I am not sure if they have done this deliberalty or not - I was starting to think that BW were trying to remove class imbalance from the game but if they leave the powertech as they are proposing, they will be seriously reduced in PvE usefulness, with huge amounts of time where they are out of combat range. That is really not acceptable. Even a fraction of a second of DPS downtime when doing progression raids can lead to us hitting an agro timer.
There is a very easy way to fix this - give us the jet charge ability as a standard skill and not one that can only be specced into high up the tank tree. You really have to do this or you are going to ruin the powertech as a DPS in PvE. From a business point of view it was ok to do this to a class when the game was popular, but the last thing you need now is people stopping playing due to not being picked for raids anymore.
While they are at it give us an agro dump also - not sure why this is even an issue.
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I have been using my DPS Powertech to raid end game ever since SWTOR was released. You are right it is kinda boring, but if you mix it up and play Pyrotech and Advanced Prototype then you can have a lot of fun. What I did is I rolled another DPS class so I can swap as and when I fancy a changed and still hold my place in raids. To match the DPS of a PT and have a similar play style (DoT heavy) the obvious one is an annihilation marauder. Also the a lethality Operative or sniper are also great DPS and are DoT heavy. The operative requires a lot of concentration as there are lot of skills that need to be juggled / used in the right order / time. SO that should keep you busy when your PT gets boring.
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Funny so now will be PT legitimly meele really nice..........
If they think they will do same with pyro mercs then I quiting that day and screw you Bioware you are starting really pissed me off with that mess you doing around bounty hunters.
First arsenal merc nerf for whinig meeles then on questions about interupt you stay silent and now this you are on thin ice with nerfing bounty hunter lots of ppl which played here canceled mostly becouse of your ill-conceived nerfs.
The merc has a point.
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If they reduce the range of all our ranged skills then they will have to reduce the CD on grapple or give us some form of closer - just make it a proper melee class.
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That's like saying 'Sofia Vergara is more attractive than Joan Rivers'. It's true, but it doesn't come close to conveying the scope of how much better it looks.
That said I do like to imagine to the look of panic on an opponents face as he realises he has just been stuck with a TD and is waiting for the famous PT surge.
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I am entering a 1v1 pvp event this weekend and I have been trying to look for some ideal builds (taking into account I will be facing PT's, Marauders and assassins).
Can anyone offer any advice on build and tactics so as to give me a chance against the classes that generally do well in 1v1's.
Swap jet charge and grapple in 1.4
in Vanguard / Powertech
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I think it would be better to leave the Powertech with a grapple because they have very little utility already and removing this would almost seem like fixing one problem by creating another. Its not just about PvP but the class's role in PvE has to be considered also.
I understand what you are saying by making it overpowered, so the following could be done :;
Make Jest Charge a level 22 trainable ability.
Remove Jet charge from the tank tree and instead replace it will a reduction on a the cool down of grapple.
At the same time increase the basic cool down of grapple by 1 minute to 1:45, so that the addition of a closer does not overpower the class. The reduction could be 30 secs per point. Making this a 2 point skill, and reducing the Jet Speed boost to a one point skill (but giving you the same bonus as the 2 point version) would make this under used skill more worth while.
The other benefit I see is being able to take Hydraulic overdrives as well as having a Jet Boost closer - making the AP tree more and more used and having as much utility as any other DPS class.
I know there could be easier ways of doing this, but I have put a lot of thought into it and of course I want to put forward a spec that is not OP and will fit into BW's idea of class direction this year and next. At the same time making the class not over / underpowered in BOTH PvP and PvE.