Out of stealth I try to knock them down first, forget what that bloody ability is. I understand the arguments for keeping it for a vanish and using it for interupt, but I just find that a great way to unsettle the target.

Cool, thanks I'll pay the strange looking chap the money he wants to respec again tonight.

I've been leveling a Shadow as my next project, only 22, since I plan to get my Vanguard to valor 60 this week, I should be able to spend a little more time on my little Shadow. Damn fun class to play. Anyway quick question, I haven't check though all the pages in the thread, so apologies if this has been asked before, but can you use this spec to level through, the assumption is that you PVP a lot like I do through the leveling process ? I tried building up this spec at level 22 through initially the tank line last night, and probably my mistake as I was using a focus item yet and had kinect ward specced, but didn't find it as effective as I did with my mish mash of a spec I had before. So is the infil line a better spec line for a lowbie, definately intend on changing to this spec at 50 but right now I maybe need to think in another direction ?

I hit 50 on Sunday, and had respecced into the "iron fist" build. I absolutely love it. I thought as a fresh 50 I would be pretty much useless, since my gear would suck. But that's not been the case, in the 3 days I have been 50 I've also managhed to get fully Cent/champ geared. Thanks again Taugrim for the build and your helpful blog page.

Yeah I was definately seeing that as I was trying it out, it just wasn't working for me, really missed my incinerate opener, was trying to open with gut instead but when harpoon is on CD that was getting tough, I have no idea why I felt more squishy though as neither spec should have helped with surviability. in your opinion what is the best spec to leveling up with for a guy like me who enjoys his fair share of PVP and doesn't want to have to continually respec everytime he wants to go back to a bit of leveling ? I'm a gnatt's hair away from 43, btw.

I'm kinda new to the Vanguard (lvl 42 now). I've been a BM Jugg and a full champ Op. I love the play style of the class. Once I reach BM on my jugg it was pointless playing him, so all I do now is the dailies to finish up his BM set. He's still a blast to play, but I've been thoroughly enjoying the Vanguard so much. Anyway I started off with a full Assault build, and although I was having some issues with Ammo, I was pretty much owning in the WZs. I decided though to try some other combos out. I've been trying to go with the Run and Gun spec you've got there in your guide. But been finding it a little weak and a lot more fragile that my previous spec. I think that may have to do with the fact that I'm not 50 yet s can't maximise it's strengths fully, also I went 23 points in tactics first to get HTL, that might not be the best way for a non 50 to spec up, maybe going 18 in Assault first then build up your tactics tree would have been better. I think I'll go back to my first spec of full assault for now, but when I hit 50 probably going to switch to Iron fist, as I'll need the survivability since I'll be wearing paper against the geared imps I've been playing alongside on my Jugg.

I didn't even know there was any other viable spec for Jugg's to tank with to be honest. I've respecced once since head start and that was just to fix a mistake I made early on but I've always been heavy Immortal 34 points in it I believe. At close to rank 60, I'm fed up to the back teeth of the build really, I have pathetic dps 50k - 80k on average per huttball, but I kind of accepted that as my sacrifice for added survivability but despite my gear and spec I just don't see the survivability I should have. It's just mindless bordom playing a tank in PVP, at first it's fine but the longer you do the more it gets to you. Once I reach 60, which could be today if I concerntrated on it, but probably won't be until the weekend, then I'm gonna shelve this guy and only bring him out for HMs and complete his dailies for BM gear. One of the things RIFT did really well was allowing for on the fly spec changes, you could flip between 3 or 4 different specs, would really like that here, but it's unlikely to be implemented. I would be interested to learn if there is a viable non immortal heavy tanking spec that is also a bit of fun to play in PVP. Post your builds if you have them and your success at tanking HMs too.

BT is very easy, the hardest part of that place is pressing the spacebar fast enough so that your group mates don't whine at you for slowing the process down When I first tanked it I had a few pieces of gear already, so I can't answer you based on personal experience. But to be honest, the first thing you should concerntrate on the minute you hit 50 is the weekly and daily PVP quest. If you've done things the right way You should have a champ bag in your inv and 1000 mercs and 1000 wz commendations (so that's 6 bags before you even start). Get your two weeklies done in a day and the dailies too of course and you are looking at at least 14 and probably more bags to open on day 1. There's a good chance that you'll get 3 or 4 pieces out of that lot. like a poster above mentioned, you really notice if your DPS classes are not up to it during the enrage phase. For BT tanking when the boss is not enraged is super easy, just make sure you interupt when you can and save your cooldowns for the enraged phase. The final boss is a mechanic thing really, although she can one shot people too when she charges.

Got to say I laughed a bit at the bit about the Jugg not needing a buff. My main is a fully champ, except the legs (which are cent) rank 58.9 Jugg. So I know a thing or two about the class. I'm also specced and always have been in Immortal (tank) line. Even after the so called buff, I do on average anyway between 50k and 80k in a warzone !! the way I am specced I didn't expect to do a lot of damage, my issue really is though, the fact that I sacrificed dmg output for survivability, but I don't have any of that, especially when compared to a powertech/trooper tank. If I'm standing toe to toe with any class I should expect to kill them eventually (they don't even bother to try and kite me anymore), but I can't, in fact my health drops at a remarkable rate. Once Ive burned all my cooldowns it's usually good night to my Jugg. Anyway the Immortal Jugg (since I really can't speak for the other specs) still need a tweak, it's not really that great. To the general point the OP was making, sure the disparancy in the balancing of warzones invalidates the stats that they come from. And even now with the 50 bracket it's still there, gear making a huge difference as it does in all games. But I've played my own operative enough (level 43 now) to know that the class is a little out of whack, it's nearly always the case with these stealthing classes (I do wish games developers would do away with the stealth mechanic to be honest). I own all one v one in warzones, in fact I can own 1 v 3 no problem a lot of the times, and I'm certainly no stellar player, I don't have the reactions of the kids these days that I'm up against. It's just too easy and has been for a good 10 levels even before I got hidden strike. All the geared folk in our guild have complained about the operative/smuggler class, they've often felt completely useless against them. The nerf is coming for sure, and it'll probably mean a lot of people who like to play FTM classes reroll or quit. I'm surprised actualy Bioware are doing a nerf this early for that very reason. I guess they are confident in their ability to retain the player base.

Part of a tank's role is to stack the mobs for aoers to ply away at, with a ranged mobs, Saber throw will not allow you to do that. It's not the same skill at all.

Damn the L2P crowd out in force in this thread. And what's with all the WOW references, So you played a warrior in WoW which is tougher to play than a DK (whatever that is), who cares, really. The main tanking class, which has nearly always been melee, has had a pull mechanic, in pratically all recent MMO's I have played. It's a bloody basic requirement. Crazy that we don't have one, irrespective of whether other classes do. I have fun with my force push but I would trade that in for a far more aligned skill of force pull any day of the week. Please quit it with the L2P stuff it's not really impressing anyone it just looks a bit childish tbh, and it's not about being a clone of another class this is a core melee tank class requirement that's missing, spec it high into the Immortal tree if you are worried about it's use in PVP.

I have completely the opposite problem. I've done countless grey con quests just to finish up storyline, hardly efficient but the journey to 50 is so bloody good in this game I don't feel any pressure to level fast. I rarely do quests that are higher than green con to me. I'm 49 right now and still on Belsavis !! One of the reasons I am so ahead of the level range has been the mixing up of my leveling process. Every day, I do the PVP daily, the space quest dailies and I was running flashpoints consistently numerous times a day until recently. There is no right way to level of course, but the variety of stuff to do gives you many options. If you are close to 20 or close to 40, then doing Warzoning grinding for the PVP gear is something I would thoroughly recommend. The gear is a significant upgrade on most stuff for that level and is easy to come by, most of my guildies have their full set of 40 stuff in their 20's or before.

No one says they can't but if you are obssessed with DPS, Jugg would be a silly choice go BH or Sorc or something else. If you roll a Jugg, you'll be asked to tank primarily by guilds or groups.

I've found Jaesa way more effective than Vette tbh. Could be a gear thing though, your Vette may have better gear than mine, and my Jaesa may have better gear than yours.

I've never used it in PVE I don't think, certainly not as a threat generator. Is that what the tool tip says ? If so I didn't know and will certainly try it out, we could use all the threat generation techniques available to us.

If you are completeling a quest solo and the last stage is an Elite, there is every reason in the world to switch Jaesa with Quinn I do it all the time. Quinn gives you that surviveability and makes a tough fight simple if a little longer. I agree in the large part a tandem with Jaesa is the best call but there are occassions where you want to call up Quinn, I'll certainly not wnat ot waste my time lfging for one mob at the end of a quest line.

Then respec !!! That's what the merchant is for, if your spec isn't working for you respec ! I don't get how you can't see that, my reply was totally relevant.

In PVP I have yet to get Savage kick to work. In PVE I charge and imediately hit savage kick, this works on Strong and regular mobs but not elites. Either it's broke or the tooltip is wrong, I'm going with it should be the former because it's one of our few high dps skills, but my money would be on that they'll change the tooltip to read that it's only usuable on weak mobs. Savage Kick and Pummell Strike would be great tools for us in PVP, but they don't work at least for me anyway.

I find it next to useless in PVP tbh, I open with a charge and try to get this off (it's tricky to get it to cast because of UI lag). But even if it lands, they purge it immediately or it wears of within a second or two. In theory it should help a great deal in practice I don't think it does.

I'm completely tank specced, so I don't really concern myself with the DPS we deal, outside the fact I can't use my main DPS skills like Savage Kick. I didn't roll a Jugg to DPS, that would be absurd, I rolled it to tank. My main problem in PVP though is that I don't have way more survivability than other DPS classes. My spec should give me that but it doesn't, I'm usually near the top of the deaths table in all WFs and I die pretty easily even to lower levels who of course because of boost have the smae hp as me, making me stacking end a bit pointless for PVP pre 50 anyway.

I'm not sure what you are doing wrong. Maybe it's spec. I'm a lvl 47 Immortal specced Jug and not had any real issues killing anything. I generally roll with Jaesa but on even level elite mobs, I'll roll out Quinn (make sure you put him in healing stance). I thought going Immortal all the way would really effect my damage output, but it seems fine for leveling. For groups of three, two regular one strong, packs my formula is pretty straing forward, charge on of the regular ones, Savage kick, usually one or two more strikes is all that's needed to kill him, assist Jaesa on the next regular one (always using Smash and that other aoe thing we have). Kill him move to the strong guy, force choke, slap, punt him and charge again, dies pretty quickly with Jaesa and I beating on him. Now if we were talking about PVP, I would agree with the thread, I die way too easily considering my spec and it pisses me off that I can't use my biggest dmg dps attacks like Savage Kick and Pummel Strike. Huttball especially is a nightmare for me, maybe I just suck but I don't feel competitve at alll in PVP, PVE on the other hand is cake.