[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

Ok, simple question ... you think that WoW PvP combat is good ?

 

I think it's vastly superior to SWtOR and pretty much all other MMOs out there. But we're talking about the combat system alone, not the top-layer or the concept of battlegrounds/arenas.

 

I MUCH prefer fast and fluid responses to smooth animations in PvP. That's because I don't have time to look at what's happening on screen when I'm fighting for my life. So, I also need CLEAR visual indicators and sounds that are immediately recognisable.

 

SWtOR combat looks better than WoW combat, but it's very slow, unresponsive and clunky in comparison.

 

Ultimately, it's about gameplay before aesthetics.

[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

Imho the price of the fantastically fluid WoW PvP is that spamming the abilities feels cheap. Character just randomly waves his hands around in casting frenzy for the sake of fast responsive combat and the experience feels more and more like playing a piano than controlling a game avatar.

 

I am so looking forward to GW2 with all the throwing around and rolling and positional combat and TOR really surprised me with the amount of interactiveness it has. A lot of the issues ppl have with the TOR combat comes from being used to the WoW spamming ... it's different system you need to get used to.

 

Honestly BW would be stupid to react to these early feedback coming from ppl who didn't have enough time to really learn how to play the game.

 

If you want to tell yourself that people are used to spamming abilities mindlessly and don't know what they're talking about - that's your business.

 

I think my years with WoW and level of experience with games in general has taught me something about what's a good approach.

 

But if you must assume that people are idiots when they don't agree, then I have no interest in exchanging with you.

[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

The point is it's wrong to try to go for WoW fluidity when the outcome is just bad.

 

WoW PvP isn't bad because it's fantastically fluid and responsive. It's "bad" (if you don't like it) - because PvP isn't particularly meaningful.

 

Combine meaningful PvP with a fast, responsive and fluid combat system - and you've got something worthwhile on your hands.

[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

Problem is WoW PvP is kind of crap ... so all the technical talent you imagine does not garant desirable effect.

 

Interesting, but totally irrelevant to what I was saying.

[Question about bolster]

Not that I know, but maybe they're trying to make it less unfair by giving people without good gear and higher level abilities more hitpoints as a means of survival.

[We dont want warzones , we want open world PVP]

Open pvp = noob zerg fest

 

Warzones = fair and strategic pvp

 

/thread.

 

Open world PvP = War. It's rarely fair, but good planning and tactical insight will help turn the tide.

 

Warzones = A rigidly structured sports-like experience that has little or nothing to do with war.

[So what happened to "Level How YOU Want to Level"??]

You're entitled to your own interpretation of their marketing campaign.

 

If you listen to what they're saying, they're openly advertising PvP (and even open world PvP) as significant features of SWtOR.

 

I agree it's not the ideal implementation of PvP, but they certainly spent a lot of time developing battlegrounds, an entire open world PvP zone, and the necessary PvP mechanics and gear to go along with it. Something like Huttball has been a significant part of their marketing campaign.

 

Lots and LOTS of people are here for the conflict between the Republic and the Empire - and if you can't see how much they've done to set that up, then YOU are being totally delusional.

 

You're confusing "YOUR KIND of PvP" with PvP.

[So what happened to "Level How YOU Want to Level"??]

Actually, this game is marketed as a PvP game just as much as a PvE game.

 

People who keep harping on about it not being a PvP game are to be ignored.

 

That said, I still think PvP is a fine alternative to PvE in terms of levelling as is.

[So what happened to "Level How YOU Want to Level"??]

Personally, I'm thankful they didn't spam us with PvP gear. Nothing is less satisfying than changing gear all the time - as you get no sense of achievement when you know you'll upgrade very soon. It nullifies the meaning of upgrades - and I think they made the correct choice in making the upgrades happen rarely. It means we have something to look forward to, and it means the gear we DO get means something.

 

Not every game needs constant gear upgrades to drive the treadmill. That kind of trivial "content" is fake and has no place in an immersive MMO.

[So what happened to "Level How YOU Want to Level"??]

Ehm, at level 17ish, if I get 6-10K XP for 15 minutes of PvP and I get 3-5K XP for a quest which takes AT LEAST 15 minutes when you take travelling time into account (bonus XP adds to that time) - then how am I not levelling like I want to?

 

It's true that I can solve 3-4 quests at the same time - but when I check the clock - it takes me about an hour for each area, including bonus XP. At this point - the final yield is probably 4x4500 and 5-6K on top for bonus XP. That's between 50-75% of what I get for PvP.

 

I think PvP XP is very generous, actually.

[We dont want warzones , we want open world PVP]

Yup.

 

I had high hopes for world PvP, but it seems it's just another BG treadmill.

 

I'm hoping they're working on something for us who crave world PvP, but I kinda doubt it'll happen.

[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

They clearly wanted combat to look good, and it does. But unfortunately, in PvP, you very quickly learn to care only about your performance.

 

I'm not sure why they insisted on long GCD and slow animations for PvP, but I think they made a very bad choice there.

 

What's worse is the sound design. A strong PvP game NEEDS clear indicators for every key ability - and especially CC effects. That goes for distinct sound effects AND visual effects.

 

That your character looks cool when slashing someone with his lightsaber is totally useless if the delay between pushing the button and the effect happening takes more than a second.

 

Then again, most MMOs mess this up. WAR and RIFT were both very clunky in this way as well.

 

You need a keen insight into game design to understand these finer points, and Bioware clearly doesn't have what it takes in this area.

 

Thankfully, the game is pretty good for what it is - a largely story-driven linear experience.

[The real problems with the current state of PVP]

The reason WoW was so responsive and fluid has to do with the talent and craftsmanship of Blizzard developers - before release.

 

I won't get into what game is better or whatever, as it's all irrelevant. All I know is that WoW is technically superior to pretty much any other MMO out there - and Bioware doesn't have that kind of technical talent. They do have much better writers and such, but that's something else.

 

So, it will never be like WoW in this way.

[Huttball scoring is "useless"?]

I assume the winning team gets more, which is the only thing that matters. If you want to win, then scoring is a good way to go about it.

[You Need To Reward Open World PvP - ASAP!]

The game is obviously designed with World PvP in mind - or they wouldn't have an open world PvP zone from day one.

 

That said, it remains to be seen if they're going to take it seriously and capitalise on the good parts of the WAR experience (with the same people doing PvP in TOR) - or if they're going to copy WoW with its abysmal approach to world PvP.

 

I know that I, personally, have no interest in yet another endless raiding treadmill - so if the game doesn't offer meaningful world PvP when I reach cap - I'll simply stop playing.

 

But I won't kid myself into thinking that the game NEEDS world PvP. Obviously, a lot of people are perfectly fine raiding the same handful of instances over and over and over - to get to the next piece of gear.