I would take out the points from decimate and quake. Smash will be a complete after thought while in PvP IMO. Instead I would put them into unyielding because you will get stunned and vengeance is often rage starved if you don't get the opener in combat. I would also take stagger to hold opponents in place longer for your ravages and or applying impale and shatter in order to get all your procs rolling. That will leave you 2 points, 1 for quake so you can move up to guard stance which is a 15% boost to your armor. That's the build I like for PvP.

It sounds like they wish to reign in, not hamstring. They seem very focused on making them have a spot in PvE so with that in mind I think the changes will be thoughtful.

I think the majority of the Warrior/knight community wished other specs were as viable but they aren't. Noobs aren't the only people who play smash in arena's.

Hey OP, is this serious? Are you pulling our leg?

I'll be honest the repubs aren't very blood thirsty, even on the PvP servers. Also bioware seemed to go through great lengths to have all lvling content separate from each other, so you have to go way out of your way to interact with the other factions. Then should you actually come across one I would be surprised if they attacked you unprovoked. If you plan on fighting them Vengeance is a very good 1v1 spec.

Sentinel is superior in dps no question. If that is your criteria then it's a no brainer.

I vigilance is very easy especially early on. You really only have ravage, Vigilance's main ability, and then you will be spamming vicious slash, not sure of the Jedi name for that move. It gets way more involved and interesting as you lvl but it really eases you into it. Watchmen I never played. I only ever played the other 2 specs, one of which is very similarin the guardian side. I have played both A/C's and am in love with my Jugg/ guardian. My marauder/sentinal is fun but I loose interest. I would go Guardian because I like it, but I don't know some people hate it. Again it isn't as strong pure dps as the other.

If your character is a jugg first I would us Los to approach them. Then watch out for intrenched. If you get close enough before he pops it force push him then leap. Remember rage only needs to be 10 meters to us obliterate toward him. If you see the long cast coming us Saber reflect. There are things you can do they are not invincible. Granted they are a good counter for warriors and with support they can rip you up. But a lot of classes can reach them fine either throughstealth or other abilities. I would encourage you to get a dueling partner to practice against.

Their Pve damage is not tops. Focus is a designed burst spec great for PvP or trash mobs. Watchman (sent) Vigilance (guardian) are the 2 specs that are top PvE damage for the 2 A/C's. Sentinels are superior but guardians are solid.

I don't get it the last tic on my ravage can hit for 7 to 8 k. My impales hit around 6k sometimes and I am in a mixed set of conqueror and the tier below. Something isn't right.

That's great bro cause I love mercs in arena. They are the easiest class to kill.

No we don't. We are very viable.

A portion of Vengeance dps is dot based as well.

Again I can't explain to you why you would feel squishier than a smash jugg. That just isn't the case. Ven/vig has many talents that make them much harder to kill. Vs every comp I can't say how you will fair, the random team selection isn't always fair. But on a full qued group working as a team, vengeance, though not nearly as bursty, has plenty of single target damage, and a lot of cc immunity. As an off tank I don't think you are very good given how rage starved vengeance can be and the fact that while in the other tank stance you building even less rage. I personally did not call vengeance the king of Arena's, however I have been doing quite well. You will never do as Much damage as a smash jugg because of their huge smash. But not having to guard nodes and stand around as much their devastation is far less dangerous because team mates don't need to bunch up as much. It isn't bad. It fairs better than most classes.

I don't know about that. You can't respec while qued anymore and there aren't a lot of vengeance juggs running so who's going to craft a utility spec for the hopes thye catch a ven jugg on the other team. Not that likely. Our best defense is our anonymity and the fact that we have a high skill cap but we don't make people go insane with rage over our strength. and if it comes down to 1v1 we've got a fighters chance against anybody.

I think it's to soon to call it dead. I have a lot of friends who are coming back to swtor for this but are very poorly geared or still have lvl 50 toons and are trying to relearn refresh regear before jumping into the Arena. So how bout we give it a minute.

I think cloak of pain is fine as is. I think obfuscate is fine as is. One to looked at is force camo which they could fix by Increasing it's frequency up from 45 to a 90 second. The other is undying rage which would be fine if the healing received while activated was reduced by say 60%. I think that would be fair if nothing else changed.

Ya I've been having fun playing Vengeance in Arenas. We do have good damage, mobility, and control. Plus 4v4 really plays to this classes strengths since it is far less susceptible to being opened up on from stealth through the talent for Enraged Defense.

Lol Nerf Vengeance? For what? Being a fairly balanced class?

I apologize then. I find that the best way to get the target you want is to use the target closest enemy and generally if you are facing that direction it will pick the target I want over just the cycle next target option. I play a mele class as well so it isn't as big an issue for me selecting a target. But target closest enemy works best because even if an enemy behind you is closer if you aren't facing it it doesn't pick it. It picks the closest target in the direction your facing.

There is an option in the menu that will allow you to turn on all different types of nameplates. Enemy player nameplates, their companions, friendly players and so on. Each class comes with a unique symbol that floats above their head so you can identify them as well. That to can be turned on and off in settings. If this is what your referring to it can be done. As to mouse tap selecting, it doesn't work great all the time.

Great point. That has changed my opinion on it. Thank you for discussing this as opposed to randomly calling people bad.

Ya it would be fun.

@eziomezzi Agree. As I've said all along IMO you could change nothing just increase the CD on force Campto 90secs and iI would be totally fine with Mara's then.

Forget about it. All the Mara's responding have their fingers stuck in their ears yelling NO NO NO! they are getting nerfed despite their refusal to honestly look at the class.