Floplag
-
Posts
3,229 -
Joined
Content Type
Forums
Blogs
Events
Articles
Downloads
Gallery
Posts posted by Floplag
-
-
In reviewing the top parsing specs accordingly to the parsely leaderboards, the answer is a resounding no, were literally bottom of the barrel.
Put whatever stock you will in 6.5 dummies but based on that we are dead last and well behind the top parses by as much as 9K differential.
-
New to PVP
in PvP
The argument then is"Premades are worse than solo quers as they don't learn anything." There is a reason why premades run with Guard and Heals and its only to have a massive structural advantage over solo quers. Learning through misery of solo ques, man I would not want to wish that on anybody. It is a disheartening experience.
Then please elaborate why premades have higher win ratio.
Also argument that you will learn more by nature of solo ques is also pretty terrible. If he lives longer in PvP he will learn to counter other players faster. Otherwise I do not think he cal learn a whole lot when facing 2 DPS 1 tank 1 Healer premade. That will burst him from 100-0 in 1 stun.
Learning usually comes in those awesome 1 v 1 scenarios where you give everything you have and you lose. This forces you to learn how to counter another class better. Learning in 1v4 scenarios is impossible, you will always fall back to a reason of being outnumbered as the reason for loss (which in a lot of cases it is true).
One has nothing to do with the other.
This person is just getting into PvP and needs to learn their class properly within that context before going straight to premades
PvP teaches you thinks PvE doesn't, you use things you never do in PvE... thats not to say either is better or worse just, different.
Anyone needs to know how to play their own class before worrying about premade and the like, at least in my opinion.
-
New to PVP
in PvP
Find friends and run premades. Ez mode and you wont have to be good.Do the exact opposite of this, unless all you want is to be carried.
Learn you class, its strengths, and weakensses, and how to play without having trinity group comb behind you before you start grouping.
Yes, youre going to get hammered for a bit, but its the only way to learn.. you learn nothing with guard and heals behind you.
As others have siad its hard to give pointers without knowing what you play, but you gotta know your class before you can really contribute.
-
5 minutes isn't even a penalty, you could re-queue before he match you bailed on is possibly even over, save for arenas.
-
It would result in longer queues i suspect, but would also solve many of the current issues.
-
It is very bad, i mean if there was anything at all to dump some in that made sense but right now its just poorly designed. Im constantly capped on one and not enough of another to do anything with them or just capped period.
-
I agree with this.
Im not blasting them for it as i believe this came from over their heads with an eye on mobile gaming, also why they likely pruned so many... but active skills should not be in the trees, ever, only augments to them, in my opinion.
-
I wish they would give arsenal mercs something resembling love. Right now the current top parse is about 25% higher than what arsenal can do. I seem to recall a dev interview a while back where they said they want rdps within 5-10% of the top. I would kill for that then I could at least use arsenal in operations again. I don't know if it's just that they ignore mercs for the most part or it's that there are so few of us left actually playing arsenal that they don't get much feedback and just figure it's okay. Fury maras doing over 32k dps while we struggle to get close to 25k.
I wonder though if anyone doing what they are was intended? It feels to me more like they are over tuned than we are under.
Regardless no one should do 40% more than any other class, period.
-
I’m a pvp’er and nobody is happy about these changes. Every class got screwed over in various ways, all having to choose between essentials. I spent the first few days of 7.0 trying to figure out which one of my characters got the least screwed and walked away with a bitter feeling about all of them.
This is very much the case, except Sorcs
and maybe Maras But for real, ive been messing with two builds, the obvious one that keeps the defensives, and one that lets some of them go to keep better utility and options.
I have to say im really like the latter more than the former. It feels right and makes sense to me, but i usually play a little outside the box.
Yes, im dying a little more at times versus some classes, but i wonder if thats not a good thing. It will certainly bring to light the fact that we need a little help DPS wise.
-
3/4 players in almost every warzone are running Mara on my server if that helps lol.
Right?!?!?!?
And the ones that arent are Juggs for active guard on the maras and madness sorcs
As of right now that is the meta, lol
It will be interesting to see where ranked goes comp wise.
-
Arsenal/ Gunnery is in a good spot with a nerf in mobility - a huge choice between survivability of Echoing Deterrence vs Hold the Line to cleanse roots. Otherwise, the overall damage and especially the single target burst are BUFFED. AoE Cleaving potential is nerfed due to a reduction in the base damage of the AoE cleaving versions of Grav Round/ Tracer Missle and Demolition Round/ Heat Seeker Missle.
So what do you actually main because it isnt merc
mobility and utility were our strengths, we most a lot of both, and our damage is still far below most... how the hades is that in a good place unless you are one of those that didnt know to not shoot into the giant glowing shields.
-
I really dont get why ppl are always either obj players or dps farmers. Why not both? I always play both,I want to win and get to the top 3 dps. I usualy get top 3 dps,while helping my team with the obj. I dont know,everyone should be free to have fun playing as they want and its fine to have diff opinions about this subject,but we need to remenber we are playing with other ppl in a team and, as a former soccer player,I believe we need to give eveything we have to achieve the victory for the team,when we playing these obj pvp modes.Maybe its just my mentality.
Its very possible to farm dps and play obj at same time. If I can do it,anyone can.
This!
Youll get a bunch of answers about how it isnt pvp or whatever tp rationalize their choice while ignoring their lack of ability to multi-task
-
I'm sorry for your frustration but this is a bad take, PVE players giving pvp a chance is always a good thing, it means theres a chance we'll have more people by the end of their gear grind, more people = faster queues, and if winning is all you care about then warzones are probably not for you, i can go on a 10 loss streak but if im having fun who cares?
.
This is the one thing i have been saying for a long time now, but the reality is that they do not care. Growing the community isnt a concern for PvPers, which i dont get at all.
Most only want you to lie down for them, and make virtually no effort to help those that could be better.
They will say otherwise but ive spent far too much time on alts and such to believe that.
You want a better community, start with yourselves, its really that simple.
-
I was with you until the last sentence.
Are you kidding me? Hard core pvpers do not give pve a thought. In fact, do not respect pve at all. I have more respect for a pvp'er that can take me down vs a group of pve'ers who think that taking down a scary generated boss is super special!
This, in both good and bad ways.
Youre right, they dont care, but youre reasoning isnt sound. PvP vs PvE is a silly fight, it really is, both take different kinds of skill, but both require it, as much as anything in these games could be called skill.
-
There is truly no making some people happy.
They communicate and its met with childishness.
I get the frustration but if you think that helping youre so very wrong.
-
I think its a legitimate concern he is raising. Albeit formulated in a bit of a crude fashion.
What if you are mainly a PVE player that loves & enjoy flashpoints and SM ops. But you keep getting grouped with a bunch of clueless pvpers who does not care about tank-healer-dps roles and just mainly do whatever they feel like or are unable to follow raidleader or tank leading the way. But they play this mode because its the easiest way to get gear.
I know this happens from time to time already but increase that frequency by x10. And if that happened over and over again daily for the unforeseeable future. Would the reaction this guy is having still seem totally unreasonable?
The bottom line is that it cuts both ways.
Ive seen PvEers in PvP that were terrible, just as ive seen PvPers in FPs or Ops that were equally inept.
There is no part of this game that we all shouldnt have access to. That having been said i do ebelive in pre-reqs for the highest level stuff such as a certain gear score, valor level, etc... to join NIM raids or ranked PvP.
-
Yes, i am. If i wasnt i wouldnt be here. There is a lot im not happy with but also very much that i am.
I wont bother listing it we all have our agendas on what that means.
90% of the issues could be solved by simply adding modable gear back.
-
I really don't understand why you don't want us to have mods.
People are not happy that they can't use their cartel weapons - that would fix that.
People are not happy that they can't adjust their stats - that would fix that.
People have too many credits - make the mods 200k each and that would fix that.
All you have to do is put a vendor that sells mods up to our current item rating for credits. That would make half the pissed off people happy. And it would cost you NOTHING.
(Conquest would still suck but that would be something).
Yep.
A simple vendor that sells mods of appropriate level for 1/3 this cost of the entire piece of gear.
Problem solved.
this unmoddable thing is bad on so many levels, and literally keeping me from playing certain classes as i cannot stand to look at the weapons im forced to use on them.
Change this one thing, and so many problems go away.
-
I keep getting told by people how willing better PvPers are to help and work with new players to the genre... then i keep reading and seeing stuff like this.
-
You're right. I meant to clarify my post. People are not mind readers and cannot help without first getting asked for help. I've edited my post.
I've been playing this game for a long time. The amount of people who will offer help is surprisingly more than you'd think. And I'm not oblivious or in denial. I know how toxic some pvpers are, depending on who you ask I am probably one of them. But you shouldn't let this stop you from asking... If you never ask, you will never know. And what's the alternative? Just play regs against basic attacking marauders and mercenaries that stand ontop of the pylon to get sap capped?
It's the mediocrity of regs that ruins PvP, not premades.
As have i, since the beginning. And isnt that the point of regs? And who does that ruin it for?
Look youre not wrong about a lot of this, there are bascially three types of players in regs. The good, the potential, and the omg lets do pvp for the lulz.
I intentionally dont premade most of the time for the challenge, to make myself better. I find it rather boring to be honest when a team of people at my level can so easily dominate a match most of he time. I play many classes to better understand them, im not even maining merc right now. Im not close to that top tier, but im also by no means terrible. I think im pretty representative of the group in question.
But what i think you overlook is that many of them, most in fact that actually care about improving or breaking into the ranked scene have asked, or have reached out, and were rebuked or ignored. It cant fall only on them to ask. The better players have to be able to see the potential in others..
Personally in my experience i get marked and focused often, but none of those groups has ever reached out to me. And why would i reach out to them for just sitting on me all match and not even bothering to mutter a simple GG or say nice fight over the usual wise cracks... you gotta know that leaves a bad taste and makes any future attempts far less likely.
-
This is ridiculous. You're asking good players to teach bad players how to play, so that the "community can grow." You know that's never going to happen, even if pvpers were "nice guys."
No, thats not what im asking at all... i gave up on that long ago. All im asking is for them to not mess up the game for others. If you cant be part of the answer at least dont be the problem.
-
I think that premades curbstomping entire teams in 8v8s is a symptom of a larger problem in SWTOR PVP which is that there is a colossal skill-gap between players. Such a skill-gap is caused by the base SWTOR PVE experience being so incredibly easy that players are able to clear 95% of the content without understanding aspects of combat prevalent to PVP such as priority orders with abilities, DCD management, kiting, knowing when to swap targets, applying trauma, taunting, placing guard, swapping guard etc. Not to mention there are players in PVP who are aware of their deficiencies in these areas and make no attempts to improve.
This immense skill gap allows for premades of only 4 players to dominate teams made up of 6-8 players. If the average PVPer became more competent and confident, premades wouldn't get away with spawn camping or camping mid. It is really telling to suggest that players should not be able to form groups of 4 or should have a harder time finding a match because the other 8 players are incapable of winning that team fight.
I do sympathize with people who object to premades on the grounds that many of them are farming kills rather than objectives, therefore ruining the experience of their teammates and in 7.0 preventing them from finishing missions that would give them better gear/tech fragments. However, if the winner-take-all system we currently have for PVP rewards doesn't get premades to stop number farming, I'm not sure what will.
Very good points.
There is a huge gap, youre average PvPer doesnt even really know all the skills on their bar as they are not necessary in comparison to an average PvPer. Should that exclude them from PvP though? Isnt that what regs are for?
Why are all these supposedly higher skilled players, not play ranked, where that skill matters? If they all queued there would be constant pops, ye they dont, why not?
I get it, they dont care about regs, its trivial to them, but what right do they have to ruin the experience for the regs players that dont care about ranked?
It would be different if they made an effort to teach, or help players learn, but thats the last thing they care about choosing to farm an insult instead calling those who actually try against them tryhards... when did that become a bad thing exactly?
Those same players are the ones that lose their minds when a players of lower skill jumps into ranked and hurt their winning chances insulting every ancestor they ever had in the process but have no issues doing the same to them?
sounds a little like wanting to have that cake and eat it to...
-
Average regs solo player gets stomped by premade > realizes he is doing X wrong > starts trying to learn to do X right > sees person doing X right > asks for tips > groups with person > person teaches player how to do Z, W, Y > player gets gud.
Short term vs long term. Short term you lose a regs game... Long term you make friends, play the game more (at least a + for BW), and learn to become a better player.
And trust me, I know it sucks when you're a good player who solo ques, and gets stomped by premades. But the problem isn't the premades. It's your teammates.
God i wish this was true... You know as well as i that the number of times the better players make an real effort to help others, or invite them,. teach them, or anything of that stuff is about 10 times less than those where the insult them and act the fool.
If it wasnt i would agree completely, but we both know thats true.
I am by no means a great player, but im better than average. I know my own class and others very well, you know how many times ive had those players make an effort to talk to me or help me try to get me into ranked... once, back in season 3, from Krea.
For the last 2 years ive largely played more on alts than my main, i lead the boards in most matches, it hasnt happened even once. but ive been called every name in the book on a regular basis.
Maybe you do these things, but most dont. Their only interest is in farming as they already have their little clique and dont need us as anything more than target practice.
Everything you say is right Prum, we all know your one of the best, everyone wants to play with you and your words matter... but youre either in denial or oblivious to whats going on around you.
-
I think y'alls disconnect is that he thinks players increasing their skills is what makes premades in the 8v8 queue better, while youre looking at it from a "I'm just trying to play the game" perspective. Both are kinda correct. Some people view regs as practice and others view it as a game in and of itself. I'm in the latter. [And why people think they're mutually exclusive is another question...] But yes, better players will show you your mistakes quicker or in ways that many 8v8ers cant/won't. This is true.
But at the same time, that doesn't mean premades = making 8v8s a better place. For every one casual you improve, you may turn two others back to final fantasy. So it's not as simple as "premades = make players better = regs better". It just depends on what you're trying to get out of regs. That said, im not saying premades in 8v8s are bad at all. I think any player who gets blasted and then quits pvp is soft af. But there's an eye of the beholder thing at play here.
For me, I'm just want to see next level, 5head objectives, and premades are probably needed for that since we have no in-game Coms. We see smart 4v4 strategy every time someone streams Granked. Solo ranked, dealing with being globalled, proper use of dcds/breaks being paramount, etc. We see that every day. But I want to see 8 badAmofos playing objectives against 8 badAmofos. That sounds amazing to me. I can just imagine a huttball with triple sorc pulls. A stealth waiting to push in ez, jug leaps coupled with sorc pulls, oh the possibilities. I honestly wonder what sort of 5head plays we'd see...
Also well stated, especially the part about turning them elsewhere. Whether its back to PvE, to other games.. whatever. This is exactly why PvP in this game doesnt grow. It gets no support from the assumed better part of the community.
and maybe Maras
7.0 dealing with Premades a Guide
in PvP
Posted
I dont think most are saying that at all, at least im not. There are times i like to play with friends and times i dont,
The complaint isnt and never was about people grouping up, its an MMO after all... the issue is the imbalance it can create.
Dont remove them, just balance them as much as possible.