Speachless. There may be hope after all. Dang it Eric, I may have to resub now!

Ironic? The Pharisees didn't actually follow what you said. They gave them lip service and forced others to follow them to the letter why "exploiting" them for their own means. Which was one of the points to the whole historical event. Are you calling People like Blackaavar and myself and those that feel as we do hypocrits? Because by your miss used example you are.

I have to add this to my screen shot collection.

Let me raise this as a related topic: What do you feel about the people that took advantage of this situation and didn't report it via in game ticket? Should the people have alerted EA what was going on live as it was happening this weekend? Why didn't they "stop" in good conscience from contiuing to take advantage of the system? Did anyone report this during the event? I think this would be the more interesting discussion. I would also be interested in hearing what Eric et. al. think in this regards.

Oh I agree it is missused wholeheartedly in general especially since the term right is even more so binding by the natural law than by the state's law. I fail to see why people can not just agree up front when Pugging what the ground rules will be. Find like minded people and put them on your friends list and or even join their guild or invite them to yours etc to make it less likely the need to PUG and not have to worry about this in the first place. When it comes to the anonymity of the internet many will default to their more concupiscent nature.

I see your definition and raise you the following: Meh so it's wiki but, I think it is the definition that many have in mind when one considers what an exploit is in relation to a game.

Semantics. On the one hand "rights" is germain as it goes to "free will" on the other "ability" is only germain as it goes to button mashing. We did not "sign all our rights away" by signing the EULA. We still have ownership of our free will. So your arument is not valid in this case that is unless you were arguing the more subtle points of freedom vs. licence in that true freedom is to do what one aught and not what one wants.

^QFE ... This. Bottom line before you PUG discuss the loot rules with the group. If you don't like them then find another group. If someone lies and doesn't behave as they have agreed to ahead of time then kick them. This goes for tabbing thru cut scenes or any other group dynamic. Discuss beforehand if you don't like the result leave and find like minded people. There are no "social conventions" that are de facto.

That's just it. You can not de facto state that "nobody was harmed by this, nobody has gained an adventage". While it is true "no one was harmed" and therefore no untoward advantage was gained by the use of this exploit er "unintended manipulation of the game mechanics" some are NOW at a disadvantage that in hearing about said "creative use of player thinking" may want to be able to use the same path to level their alts. The point is that if it is not harmful then leave it in the game until Makeb to get as many to 50 prior to the expantion. The point is that it is subjective and in no way a defacto statement of absolutes in one way or the other AND it goes to prudential judgement for adjudicating similar cases in the future. Surely you can see this?

Define "advantage". It could be argued that some are at an advantage from one point of view. The point is not this specific case, it is going forward. It goes to consistancy in judgement and punishment and it goes to the n00bness (yes I said it) of EA running MMORPGs and not fully understanding it's playerbase, our language, or what we expect as far as a steward in the company that runs the games we play to act as a mediator in our disputes. Weak statements par for the course ( not you TUX but EA ).

Agreed. Sometimes it's "OK to be creative" but, othertimes it won't be.

Only based on the clarification Eric provided above your post. It goes to show that Eric and his team have a lot of work to understand "our vocabulary". As others have stated in this thread and others this doesn't really hurt any one persons gaming experience, so why not leave it in the game. Others have said offer it as a CM unlock. Others have said offer it only after your first 50 as a CM unlock. As Infernixx and others have said, I enjoy leveling when I play MMORPGs so it doesn't effect people like me one way or the other. I am just arguing from the point that if it was allowed for some then it should be allowed for all -OR- if it was not intended then it should be rolled back so that all are on an even playing field. Not to reward "some" for being "creative". One could look back on this day the next time "someone is being creative" and say .. well you allowed us to be "creative before" what has changed this time? See where I am going with this? Prudential judgement and all that.

Agreed. It's either and exploit or its not. Not "both" as in what EA is choosing to do to "band aid" fix this hole. Unintended results should have been "reported via in game ticket" to alert EA that is was happening in the first place and not wait "days" after to come up with this decission. EA looks weak here. There should be roll backs if it was behavior that was not intented. Otherwise leave it in the game until Makeb comes out. EA should want as many "happy" "customers" to be ready for their expansion. So Eric, you really need to reverse what you said. Either leave it in the game or take it out and punish those that exploitted the hole since you admitted that it was not intended and by definition with your pronouncement and exploit. Infernixx didn't "get it" he restated and parrotted what you said that is all.

OK we all know how much I "love" PUGs but, tbh this "age old" argument of who is entitled to what gets old. Before your start your PUG agree to the ground rules up front. If it's going to be a FFA for loot then just man the heck up and accept the RNG. Best bet is to go into the whole thing just hoping you make enough bank to cover your repair bills and get a little something extra for your trouble. If you win that "gear roll" then so much the bonus. So much drama over something that one really has no control over. TBF to us gamers and a glare at game developers, this is an old issue that could be fixed by having another way to prioritize loot drops "prior" the start of an encounter in an "instanced" driven encounter. Have presets for priorities for certain types of gear ( generic to the MMORPG ) and agree to the loot order/priority as part of choice to PUG or not. All I am saying is that it's all math and pixels and can be manipulated in such a was as to not have this "stupid" daily agrument every day in every MMORPG under the virtual sun.

I am sure HW will laugh when he sees that. Yeah I will offer my "pearls" for as long as I am able.

CC, Why take the key with you on your work sites (especially dangling from a key chain .. yikes!)? Maybe to keep it safe in your travels get a plastic box ( like one for soap), get some foam (cut a space for the key) place the foam in the box and then the key keep the box in your tool bag if you need to have it on you to do some remote forum reading?

Says our forum "undertaker". *wave*

Careful what you wish for. EA CM developer: An "I win" button you say? Well now that you mention it ... But, yeah given this current tact, I agree rather than "pretending to support alt leveling" through this ... ahem ... "new leveling path", just put an instant 50 button for sale in the CM.

There are far more "white knight" responses in those "hater" threads from the "usual suspects" attempting to herald some "Keyser Soze" to be the savior of SWTOR.

Actually the current "trend" is to turn a blind eye to all of SWTORs warts for fear of telling the emperor he is not wearing cloths and rabbidly defend SWTOR to the point of aneurysm.

Hmmm ... yeah no ... I mean I am bitter about the direction that SWTOR has taken as the next but, SWTOR won't "die" per ce. If we look at the other MMORPG properties in EA's stable (e.g. WAR) at worste SWTOR will head into maintenacne mode. SWTOR "may" be headed in that direction but, it is too soon to tell. I think another years time will determine where SWTOR ends up in MMORPG history.

Actually "cc" in italian is pronounce "ch" (unless followed by an "h") so it would be "Rich-i-tee-ello".

Didn't meet his quota for taking lolipops away from babies.

Meh at this point if they got John $medly it would be better. What .. I said it!

For those that don't want to link: And the . Well sorta.